Agnostics...Immobile?

[moustache]

A quote from "Life of Pi"....

"Ill be honest about it. It is not atheists who get stuck in my craw, but agnostics. Doubt is useful for a while. We must all pass through the garden of Gethsemane. If Christ played with doubt, so must we. If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if He burst out from the Cross saying, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" then surely we are also permitted doubt. But we must move on. To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation."

I Believe this sums up agnostics,

"To choose doubt as a philosiphy of life, is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation."

Do you view this as proper representation of agnostics? Explain.

[belverron]

Doubtful, yes. Lacking because of it, no. There's no point in closing my mind to the possiblity of an afterlife or whatever. If this life doesn't deadend, that's great. My lack of certainty doesn't handicap me. I have a sort of envy for people with that certainty, but also a very real despisement.

[Starboy]

If you go back to the root meaning of the word a-gnostic it means 'without knowing'. Of course the question is 'without knowing what?' When applied to god the vast majority of people are agnostic.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01215c.htm

(1) The word Agnostic (Greek a, privative + gnostikós "knowing") was coined by Professor Huxley in 1869 to describe the mental attitude of one who regarded as futile all attempts to know the reality corresponding to our ultimate scientific, philosophic, and religious ideas.

Everyone knows that Huxley was an atheist in that he was an a-theist. He was without a belief in god. Fact is it is irrational to have a belief in god if you do not know god. If most supernaturalists were honest with themselves they would not confuse an emotional experience with a physical experience. It is not as if emotional experiences are a reliable way of knowing reality.

Many have accused Huxley of being a coward because rather than just admitting he was an atheist he hid behind the cover of so called agnosticism. But then who am I to judge. There are still many societies today that are very intolerant of atheism. To call oneself an agnostic is a way of coming out somewhat without bringing down the complete wrath of the superstitious community.

Starboy

[Agent007]

In order to have a true purpose in life we must have absolute faith in some ideal, principle, or belief and we should not doubt these things that are closest to our hearts.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: Agent007 In order to have a true purpose in life

Translation: In order to create a false sense of self-worth, we have to create some fairy tale.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Agent007 In order to have a true purpose in life we must have absolute faith in some ideal, principle, or belief and we should not doubt these things that are closest to our hearts.

This kind of thinking has always amazed me. It is something I would expect an automaton to say. You spout crap like this and you accuse me of not having an open mind. That is just too rich.

Starboy

[lsbskins1]

I believe that we agnostics simply have the courage to admit that we do not know the answer to the question. Saying that I do not know if there is a higher being or a God does not stop me from making moral choices, nor does it stop me from being fulfilled on the levels that humans can be fulfilled. You do not have to be without doubt to have faith. On the contrary, faith as a concept is meaningless without doubt. You have faith in spite of doubt, not as a result of it's absense, so I fail to see how those who take the plunge and allow their faith to inform and shape their life course are that much further ahead of the curve. I simply refuse to condemn those who do not know. I will say that I will defend the logic of my position when challenged, but I do not personally approach people I know to be "believers" and challenge them to defend their faith. I also do not resent those who calmly and reasonably approach me to "share the good news". I understand that they view it as part of their religious responsibility to inform those who may not know. What gets under my crawl are those who stay in your face and insist that they have the only answer, the real answer and that America is doomed if everyone who does not share their views is not pushed back into the hole they belong in.

[Gorgo]

Yes, and there are lots of definitions. There are agnostic theists and agnostic atheists as well.

[cheesenuggett]

ive never been athiest, but i do consider myself agnostic, i dont want to discredit anything but i do not wish to pick a certain religeon.

Agent007, sorry but that is truly ignorant

[IndieC]

Yup, i have to agree here, it is ignorant to say that you have to believe fully in order to live. Loads of people live without committing fully to a belief.

Personally, i now believe in God, i have had my proof, and there's no going back anymore, but i used to be an agnost, who refused to agree with either camp, atheists or theists. I have two friends who were diametrically opposed to each other, in terms of belief, at the time, and i generally sided with the atheist saying "there is no proof". But then again, it was just as absurd to believe there is no God, if you are agnost, as there is no proof of that either. You're stuck between the two, so, what i did, is i went about my life normally, waiting for some kind of event, so kind of proof. Eventually i found it, but some people don't. It does not change that much in this life, and saying that agnosts are immobile is, in my opinion, ignorant as well, simply because they just go about life normally. The are only immobile for a while, in terms of eblief, but so are we all. We are immobile if we believe in God, because we have chosen our faith. It is the same if we are atheist. The only difference between someone who believes, and an agnost, is, in my opinion, the way you behave. If you believe, you will try and convinced someone of you belief. An agnost is in the unique position of someone yet to be convinced by either side. He is neutral in the debate, and can pick and chose where to agree, and where not too. Indeed, he has sympathy on both sides, because he could turn either way.

[kingjust]

Quote by: IndieC Yup, i have to agree here, it is ignorant to say that you have to believe fully in order to live. Loads of people live without committing fully to a belief. Personally, i now believe in God, i have had my proof, and there's no going back anymore, but i used to be an agnost, who refused to agree with either camp, atheists or theists. I have two friends who were diametrically opposed to each other, in terms of belief, at the time, and i generally sided with the atheist saying "there is no proof". But then again, it was just as absurd to believe there is no God, if you are agnost, as there is no proof of that either. You're stuck between the two, so, what i did, is i went about my life normally, waiting for some kind of event, so kind of proof. Eventually i found it, but some people don't. It does not change that much in this life, and saying that agnosts are immobile is, in my opinion, ignorant as well, simply because they just go about life normally. The are only immobile for a while, in terms of eblief, but so are we all. We are immobile if we believe in God, because we have chosen our faith. It is the same if we are atheist. The only difference between someone who believes, and an agnost, is, in my opinion, the way you behave. If you believe, you will try and convinced someone of you belief. An agnost is in the unique position of someone yet to be convinced by either side. He is neutral in the debate, and can pick and chose where to agree, and where not too. Indeed, he has sympathy on both sides, because he could turn either way.

What happen that made you believe?

[IndieC]

The Holy Spirit entered me one night, that's about it... Can't explain it very well at all, because it was quite sudden, over the course of an evening really. I had been out that night, and i decided i'd go back early with a couple of guys on my corridor at uni, both of which were Christians. They were just casualy talking about the Christian Union, and what they'd been doing that night (it was a sunday) and so i asked them why they believed. Low and behold, when we got back, the third Christian on the corridor turned up, and we spent hours in the kitchen talking about it, and it got me thinking. So i went to bed, and that's when he entered me, and i just got the feeling to cry. I wasn't sad really, i just wanted to cry. I didn't actually managed it, but i actually tried to, which i have never ever done since, nor had i done before. I just knew i had to cry. Then i prayed, for the first time, really, in my life. The next day i just looked at it objectively, and logically, and started trying to prove that he didn't actually exist, that things didn't make sense and that i wqas just being crazy, but i couldn't, despite so many doubts, and so, over about a month, i started truly believing, and that was it, when i looked back on it a few months later, i saw everything click into place, everything made sense, all the things that had happened in my life, and some have been pretty horrible i can tell you, yet they all helped bring me to God. So there you have it: my testimony.

[moustache]

Thats reall something Indiec...

I feel like that when I go to church sometimes.

[tman_ndsu08]

On the contrary, I look at both atheists and believers and laugh because neither of them have proof to support their claims nor can they ever find any in principle.

[cheesenuggett]

i dont believe to much into that... sure made me luagh though

[SNPete]

Quote by: IndieC The Holy Spirit entered me one night, that's about it... Can't explain it very well at all, because it was quite sudden, over the course of an evening really. I had been out that night, and i decided i'd go back early with a couple of guys on my corridor at uni, both of which were Christians. They were just casualy talking about the Christian Union, and what they'd been doing that night (it was a sunday) and so i asked them why they believed. Low and behold, when we got back, the third Christian on the corridor turned up, and we spent hours in the kitchen talking about it, and it got me thinking. So i went to bed, and that's when he entered me, and i just got the feeling to cry. I wasn't sad really, i just wanted to cry. I didn't actually managed it, but i actually tried to, which i have never ever done since, nor had i done before. I just knew i had to cry. Then i prayed, for the first time, really, in my life. The next day i just looked at it objectively, and logically, and started trying to prove that he didn't actually exist, that things didn't make sense and that i wqas just being crazy, but i couldn't, despite so many doubts, and so, over about a month, i started truly believing, and that was it, when i looked back on it a few months later, i saw everything click into place, everything made sense, all the things that had happened in my life, and some have been pretty horrible i can tell you, yet they all helped bring me to God. So there you have it: my testimony.

Nice very nice. I had a similar experience except that I was in a van with three other Christians. I argued against everything they said.

I “knew” they were wrong, but that night I decided to pray to God like they suggested, just to prove them wrong. After I prayed, I had a very strong conviction they were right. Ever since my decision to become a Christian life has been great! But not without its troubles, of course.

[Starboy]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 On the contrary, I look at both atheists and believers and laugh because neither of them have proof to support their claims nor can they ever find any in principle.

What claims does an atheist have. It is nothing but a lack of belief. You must be talking about the anti-theists.

Starboy

[IndieC]

Quote by: Starboy What claims does an atheist have. It is nothing but a lack of belief. You must be talking about the anti-theists.

No, its a belief that there is no God (oh what an irony...). That is different from a lack of belief. A lack of belief is more the way an agnost looks at it... He is undecided, and lacks faith.

As for being a Christian, i've been one for a few months, so i don't have much experience, but it can be quite hard, especially when you have a friend who is completely atheist, and won't budge. Then again, he just thinks its fun debating about it... Doesn't really care.

And as for going to Church, moustache, i go to a place called "St Mikes" (St Michael's) and I have never felt the way i did that night again, but when the Church roars with the singing and the music in the background, when people cheer and shout the words of some songs, it gets very close... We were just on BBC1 actually, for anyone who's in the UK (my first TV appearance, hehe) a few sundays ago, the celebration for Pentecost, a hundred years after the last Welsh religious revival. My favorite song is "When oceans rise and thunders roar..."

[Gorgo]

As an a-theist, I lack a belief in god. Now, I can tell you that I'm pretty sure that Thor and the tribal war god Jehovah do not exist as well. As to other gods, I have no reason to suspect that they exist, but if you have reasonable evidence of it, lay it on me.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist

Atheism is the state either of being without theistic beliefs, or of actively disbelieving in the existence of deities. In antiquity, Epicureanism incorporated aspects of atheism, but it disappeared from the philosophy of the Greek and Roman traditions as Christianity gained influence. During the Age of Enlightenment, the concept of atheism re-emerged as an accusation against those who questioned the religious status quo, but by the late 18th century it had become the philosophical position of a growing minority. By the 20th century, atheism had become the most common position among scientists, rationalists, and humanists (60.7 percent of U.S. general scientists and 93 percent of N.A.S. top scientists expressing disbelief or doubt, Nature 386:435-436 [1] (http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPa...t_filetype=pdf)).

[Agent007]

I believe, however, that the greatest feats of mankind have been achieved when humans hold steadfastly to some principle and fight for it; I am not necessarily pointing to a set of religious beliefs as constituting these principles. For instance, a rush of American patriotism contributed to the United States putting a man on the moon; likewise, people should have something for which to fight. Starboy, simply being called someone who "spouts" fecal material offends me, just like being called "stupid" offends you. Be nicer, please.