Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

moustache · Jun 12, 2005, 10:24 pm

YOU SAY:

If you think I spend all my time wondering whether this God of yours does or does not exist, you're dead wrong. It's not worth my time. The World Series is a better use of my time, and I'm not even a baseball fan.

I SAY:

Obviously you dont think about God much...I am a baseball fan, but I am also a fan of God.

YOU SAY:

Also, I'm confused about your afterlife assertion. Are you trying to say that if I believe in God, I will live forever, and if I don't, I will die a mortal death?

I SAY:

Im saying that if you dont believe in god, then you will most likely not be going to heaven.

YOU SAY:

If so, you aren't a Christian, because Christians believe that everyone lives forever (albiet some more comfortably than others).

I SAY:

I am a christian, and I believe in Heaven and Hell.

YOU SAY:

That said, I would far rather go to Hell, because all of my friends, everyone I respect, and anyone who believes in using their brain will be there, not to mention everyone who believes in having a good time.

I SAY:

Interesting, I have never met anyone that wants to go to hell before.

YOU SAY:
As for the holy spirit... keep that creepy shit out of me!!

I SAY:
Dont worry about it, the holy spirit will not be finding a home in you.

Starboy · Jun 12, 2005, 10:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

I SAY:
Dont worry about it, the holy spirit will not be finding a home in you.

You better watch out. There may be a demon in your brain. BOOOOO!

Starboy

belverron · Jun 13, 2005, 12:22 am

Where's the problem with that dialogue, moustache?

moustache · Jun 13, 2005, 12:31 am

wheres the problem with what now?

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 13, 2005, 11:15 am

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

That's what God told me. I "felt" it. You don't know, because you don't have faith. If you would open your mind, you'd see it.

God told me that you're a liar.

Starboy · Jun 13, 2005, 11:17 am

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

God told me that you're a liar.

I am sure he did. Now put the keyboard down, back away from the computer and get help.

Starboy

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 13, 2005, 11:28 am

How can you prove that either me or Gorgo is telling the truth?

As an atheist, your belief is that you have factual evidence to prove that god doesn't exist.

Please, we'd love to hear.

Agent007 · Jun 13, 2005, 11:36 am

No matter how frustrating it is to deal with ignorant atheists, the Holy Spirit can still find a home in them. Remember, atheists, Jesus Christ loves you and wants you to be His followers no matter how much a lack of evidence you have against him. You should convert to at least some type of theist religion--or any religion, for that matter--because it wil bring you comfort.

**Matt W** · Jun 13, 2005, 11:41 am

Quote:

You should convert to at least some type of theist religion--or any religion, for that matter--because it wil bring you comfort.

No, it won't. I see absolutely no reason to convert to any religion which denigrates my fellow human beings purely because they choose not to believe in the 'true faith'. That, to me, is not comfort - it's incitement to hate.

italiangm · Jun 13, 2005, 11:42 am

Agent007: Given the subject matter of this particular discussion/debate, I feel it was improper/inappropriate for you to proselytize. I feel you owe the readership an apology.
.

Starboy · Jun 13, 2005, 11:49 am

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

How can you prove that either me or Gorgo is telling the truth?

As an atheist, your belief is that you have factual evidence to prove that god doesn't exist.

Please, we'd love to hear.

Sorry, but even Christians think someone is crazy if they talk to god, especially if god talks back. And they get put in the loony bin if they act on it. The case of the mother that bashed her kids head in with a rock is a good example. As a theist do you have evidence that she was not acting on orders from god? Why is it that theist think it is sane to believe they are talking to god when god tells them to do things that they think they should do but that they are not talking to god when god tells them to do things that they think they should not do? This is god after all. Who are you to tell god what is a message from god and what is not.

Also as an a-theist I make no claims about god. What god? But I do make claims about god advocates. They don't like that. I am sure they would much rather that I stick to god.

Starboy

Gorgo · Jun 13, 2005, 12:10 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

How can you prove that either me or Gorgo is telling the truth?

As an atheist, your belief is that you have factual evidence to prove that god doesn't exist.

Please, we'd love to hear.

I have enough reasonable evidence based on observation and questioning and learning to understand that people delude themselves. One of the ways that they delude themselves is with the idea of gods. I have no way of knowing whether or not you believe that Thor creates lightning, but I would guess that most of the people on this forum would think it was silly. There is no more evidence for Thor than any other god. That's why I think it's a fantasy.

ibm · Jun 13, 2005, 01:47 pm

if there is an afterlife, does it then become proof that god exists? what is the connection there?

if there are this current life and an afterlife, why do we have to sacrifice one to save for another?

IndieC · Jun 13, 2005, 04:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Starboy

Sorry, but even Christians think someone is crazy if they talk to god, especially if god talks back.

Not quite true. If you pray you are talking to God, therefore talking to him is an essential part of Christian life, one which is, indeed, crucial to being a Christian at all.

However, if someone hears God talking back, that is a bit weird, and unless its happens only once or twice in their lives, and they are known to be sane, then they are left alone, and not really paid any attention.

It has been known that people have heard God, although it was generally, in fact always from what i gather, in a dream, a hallucination, or some other form of unconscious event. Evan Roberts, the leading man of the Welsh religious revival of 1904/05 heard God speak to him in a dream, showing him how many would be converted (it turned out to be very close to that amount of 100,000 God had spoken of).

IndieC · Jun 13, 2005, 04:33 pm

Quote:

Quote by: ibm

if there are this current life and an afterlife, why do we have to sacrifice one to save for another?

Who ever said we had to sacrifice one to save for an other? I'm sorry, but as a Christian, i don't feel that i sacrifice a single part of my life to God, it is my life, and i have the free will to do what i want with it. I simply chose to adhere to certain morals which many would say are perfectly sound, and very good to adhere to.

In fact, since i have become a Christian, i feel more content, less alone, and generally happier with myself. So it made my life far better, not worse at all, and not having sacrificed, but having recieved instead.

Okay, i agree, there are certain "sacrifices" people make, like going to Church every Sunday, or no sex before marriage, and not being a homosexual, but i get far more out of being a Christian, than i lose. After all, what is it? Two hours of your whole week spent worshipping God. Its not exactly eternity, and you come out happy, refreshed, and feeling part of a community of friends, Christians who go to your Church. You could even say its just like a group social. So i don't feel i am sacrificing my life now, for a longer life later on in heaven.

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 13, 2005, 04:52 pm

Quote:

There is no more evidence for Thor than any other god.

But there is no evidence that Thor (or any other god) doesn't exist!

So neither side has any evidence. Thus, neither side is valid.

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 13, 2005, 04:53 pm

Quote:

Also as an a-theist I make no claims about god.

When you say "as an atheist", that means you're making a claim. You claim that god doesn't exist.

That's your belief.

Starboy · Jun 13, 2005, 04:54 pm

Quote:

Quote by: IndieC

However, if someone hears God talking back, that is a bit weird, and unless its happens only once or twice in their lives, and they are known to be sane, then they are left alone, and not really paid any attention.

In most circles of extreme magical thinkers, people who hear god talking to them most or all the time are holy. They are not crazy. And if the person claims to be hearing god but the magical thinkers do not like what god is saying then the person is posses by the devil. Now of course some people are in a transition mode. They are somewhat magical in their thinking and somewhat rational. Those people might think the possessed was simply possessed with a mental disease.

Quote:

It has been known that people have heard God, although it was generally, in fact always from what i gather, in a dream, a hallucination, or some other form of unconscious event. Evan Roberts, the leading man of the Welsh religious revival of 1904/05 heard God speak to him in a dream, showing him how many would be converted (it turned out to be very close to that amount of 100,000 God had spoken of).

In classic UFO fashion the attributes of the super being change to fit the persons understanding of reality. In earlier times people claimed to be having a conversation with god, and not in a dream. Just so happens that in this day and age we know more about mental illness, so god talkers make an effort to steer clear of what would be obvious mental illness. It is all very convenient.

Starboy

Starboy · Jun 13, 2005, 04:55 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

When you say "as an atheist", that means you're making a claim. You claim that god doesn't exist.

That's your belief.

Do you think Zeus exists? Are you an atheist when it comes to Zeus?

Starboy

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 13, 2005, 04:59 pm

I have no proof either way.

Jun 12, 2005, 10:24 pm	#121 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	YOU SAY: If you think I spend all my time wondering whether this God of yours does or does not exist, you're dead wrong. It's not worth my time. The World Series is a better use of my time, and I'm not even a baseball fan. I SAY: Obviously you dont think about God much...I am a baseball fan, but I am also a fan of God. YOU SAY: Also, I'm confused about your afterlife assertion. Are you trying to say that if I believe in God, I will live forever, and if I don't, I will die a mortal death? I SAY: Im saying that if you dont believe in god, then you will most likely not be going to heaven. YOU SAY: If so, you aren't a Christian, because Christians believe that everyone lives forever (albiet some more comfortably than others). I SAY: I am a christian, and I believe in Heaven and Hell. YOU SAY: That said, I would far rather go to Hell, because all of my friends, everyone I respect, and anyone who believes in using their brain will be there, not to mention everyone who believes in having a good time. I SAY: Interesting, I have never met anyone that wants to go to hell before. YOU SAY: As for the holy spirit... keep that creepy shit out of me!! I SAY: Dont worry about it, the holy spirit will not be finding a home in you. Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

Jun 13, 2005, 12:22 am	#123 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,305	Where's the problem with that dialogue, moustache? If only I could saith, so should I.

Jun 13, 2005, 12:31 am	#124 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	wheres the problem with what now? Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

Jun 13, 2005, 11:42 am	#130 (permalink) (top)
italiangm Chocoholic Posts: 915	Agent007: Given the subject matter of this particular discussion/debate, I feel it was improper/inappropriate for you to proselytize. I feel you owe the readership an apology. . Last edited by italiangm; Jun 13, 2005 at 11:51 am.

Jun 13, 2005, 01:47 pm	#133 (permalink) (top)
ibm Igneous Magma Posts: 672	if there is an afterlife, does it then become proof that god exists? what is the connection there? if there are this current life and an afterlife, why do we have to sacrifice one to save for another? Last edited by ibm; Jun 13, 2005 at 01:57 pm.

Jun 13, 2005, 11:28 am	#127 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	How can you prove that either me or Gorgo is telling the truth? As an atheist, your belief is that you have factual evidence to prove that god doesn't exist. Please, we'd love to hear.

Jun 13, 2005, 11:36 am	#128 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	No matter how frustrating it is to deal with ignorant atheists, the Holy Spirit can still find a home in them. Remember, atheists, Jesus Christ loves you and wants you to be His followers no matter how much a lack of evidence you have against him. You should convert to at least some type of theist religion--or any religion, for that matter--because it wil bring you comfort.

Jun 13, 2005, 04:59 pm	#140 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	I have no proof either way.