Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

moustache · Jun 11, 2005, 09:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Starboy

Valid or not has nothing to do with it. You just don't get it

I know...I really dont get your point. maybe you could explain a little better or something?

Starboy · Jun 11, 2005, 09:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

I know...I really dont get your point. maybe you could explain a little better or something?

Not sure it can be done. I have used simple words and expressed the thoughts in a few sentences for easy comprehension. Either you get it or you don't. And you don't get it. Is English a second language for you?

Starboy

moustache · Jun 11, 2005, 09:18 pm

I dont get you point...whatever it is....

And no..English is not a second language for me..But thanks for asking.

Starboy · Jun 11, 2005, 09:27 pm

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

God heps us achieve these goals.

Even though moustache did not get my point this sentence is very telling. We do not exist for god, god exists for us. God is created in man's image not the other way around.

Starboy

Technosoul · Jun 11, 2005, 10:02 pm

I read the O.P. and a couple of the follow up messages then jumped to the last page to make a comment or two (hope I do not repeat anyone).

During the time Jesus was on the cross he continued teaching by giving examples of the four attitudes that we should attain too. The attitude towords self, the attitude towords other people, the atttude towords God ( defined in many ways) and the attitude towords life (how to live). So he was not personally having a moment of doubt when he said "why have you forsaken me" but was demonstrating the attitude we should all have towords "truth and God" whom I would define as the "The Mind of the Most High". It is the attitude of questioning and seeking (the answers we need to understand "what's up"). Often Christians confuse seeking or questioning with doubt, and then suggest that doubt is the lack of faith or belief. I do not agree with that conclusion because one would not be seeking, or questioning the meaning of life, if they did not have some faith or belief in the idea that it might be possible to someday, somehow, become enlighted to the answers.

Sort of like watching a girl do a dance where she slowly removes one silk layer of clothing at a time until at last the naked truth of her mystery is revealed. Huxley at the peep show watching the mystery through the doors of his perception (altered state perception). Blessed are the poor in spirit for they shall see God. Blessed are those who have the most doubt because they will ask the most complex questions and get all the good answers. The Greek meaning for the word "reason" is "of God" but in phylosophy that Reason is within the person and not what some book, religion, or preacher man tells you.

The Garden comment about not wishing to drink from that cup has another whole "story" behind it that I wish not to go into in this message (but had nothing to do with doubt).

Those who do not believe in God simply do not believe in the words of preachers because preachers do not base much in the resource of Reason. The missing link is that Reason (internal source) is the real "face of God" which is also called "the indwelling spirit of truth".

If you do not believe in Jesus, that is okay. If you do not believe in someone's elses concept about what a God is, that is okay. But if you turn away from belief in the indwelling spirit of Reason - then you are indeed up the creek with no paddle.

Now you know.

Technosoul.

Thunder Wave · Jun 12, 2005, 12:54 am

Agnostics: Someone who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists.

Isn't that why the word Faith is used for religions?

Perhaps agnostic is just a way of being realistic.

Other religions just use faith to know that god exists.

Faith: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

Who can argue with a dictionary?

cjhanrahan · Jun 12, 2005, 01:36 am

Immobility is lack of transportion, but questioning is not a lack of life.

moustache · Jun 12, 2005, 01:45 am

Quote:

Quote by: cjhanrahan

Immobility is lack of transportion, but questioning is not a lack of life.

questioning? I see "questioning" by agnostics better labeled as doubt.

And if it is labeled as doubt, then this applies.

Gorgo · Jun 12, 2005, 04:23 am

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

No, I have had self-worth religion or not. But if there was no god, then we would have no PURPOSE.

I stand corrected then. What is that purpose?

moustache · Jun 12, 2005, 05:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

I stand corrected then. What is that purpose?

The purpose of life? It is to prepare us for the afterlife.

Agent007 · Jun 12, 2005, 05:57 pm

Yes, read the thread "What is the Meaning of Life?"

Gorgo · Jun 12, 2005, 05:58 pm

And the purpose of the afterlife?

moustache · Jun 12, 2005, 06:00 pm

The point of heaven...To enjoy the fruits of our labor on earth. To live without worry, temptation, fear.

Gorgo · Jun 12, 2005, 06:17 pm

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

The point of heaven...To enjoy the fruits of our labor on earth. To live without worry, temptation, fear.

So, all life is is a way to get to a place where you don't have worry, tempation or fear. You don't think much of yourself or your life.

Starboy · Jun 12, 2005, 06:21 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

So, all life is is a way to get to a place where you don't have worry, tempation or fear. You don't think much of yourself or your life.

Not only that but it is not even an external purpose. It is a personal purpose. It is no better a purpose than trying to do those very things on earth. The supernatural part adds nothing to the purpose of life.

Starboy

moustache · Jun 12, 2005, 06:21 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

So, all life is is a way to get to a place where you don't have worry, tempation or fear. You don't think much of yourself or your life.

...I value my life...and I value myself....

Gorgo · Jun 12, 2005, 06:27 pm

Quote:

Quote by: moustache

...I value my life...and I value myself....

If you did, you wouldn't try to create a fantasy world to give it worth.

moustache · Jun 12, 2005, 06:30 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

If you did, you wouldn't try to create a fantasy world to give it worth.

Alright then...I cant argue with that logic Gorgo :rolleyes:

tman_ndsu08 · Jun 12, 2005, 06:31 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

So, all life is is a way to get to a place where you don't have worry, tempation or fear. You don't think much of yourself or your life.

How do you know it's a fantasy?

Starboy · Jun 12, 2005, 06:38 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

How do you know it's a fantasy?

I am sure Gorgo doesn't know for a fact. He has no idea if it is any more fantasy than say Valhalla. But since you probably don't believe in Valhalla either you should not find it unreasonable that Gorgo doesn't believe in heaven. What you ought to asking yourself is,
'Why do you believe in heaven but not Valhalla?'

Starboy

Jun 11, 2005, 09:18 pm	#83 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	I dont get you point...whatever it is.... And no..English is not a second language for me..But thanks for asking. Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

Jun 12, 2005, 12:54 am	#86 (permalink) (top)
Thunder Wave World Peas Location: Seattle, WA, USA Posts: 118	Agnostics: Someone who claims that they do not know or are unable to know whether God exists. Isn't that why the word Faith is used for religions? Perhaps agnostic is just a way of being realistic. Other religions just use faith to know that god exists. Faith: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Who can argue with a dictionary? 人の振り見て我が振りなおせ。十人十色。 :( :) :confused: :rolleyes: :eek: ~ Debate Party

Jun 12, 2005, 06:00 pm	#93 (permalink) (top)
moustache Conservative Location: P-Town, OR Posts: 446	The point of heaven...To enjoy the fruits of our labor on earth. To live without worry, temptation, fear. Q: What's a conservative? A: A liberal who made it through adolescence.

Jun 11, 2005, 10:02 pm	#85 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	I read the O.P. and a couple of the follow up messages then jumped to the last page to make a comment or two (hope I do not repeat anyone). During the time Jesus was on the cross he continued teaching by giving examples of the four attitudes that we should attain too. The attitude towords self, the attitude towords other people, the atttude towords God ( defined in many ways) and the attitude towords life (how to live). So he was not personally having a moment of doubt when he said "why have you forsaken me" but was demonstrating the attitude we should all have towords "truth and God" whom I would define as the "The Mind of the Most High". It is the attitude of questioning and seeking (the answers we need to understand "what's up"). Often Christians confuse seeking or questioning with doubt, and then suggest that doubt is the lack of faith or belief. I do not agree with that conclusion because one would not be seeking, or questioning the meaning of life, if they did not have some faith or belief in the idea that it might be possible to someday, somehow, become enlighted to the answers. Sort of like watching a girl do a dance where she slowly removes one silk layer of clothing at a time until at last the naked truth of her mystery is revealed. Huxley at the peep show watching the mystery through the doors of his perception (altered state perception). Blessed are the poor in spirit for they shall see God. Blessed are those who have the most doubt because they will ask the most complex questions and get all the good answers. The Greek meaning for the word "reason" is "of God" but in phylosophy that Reason is within the person and not what some book, religion, or preacher man tells you. The Garden comment about not wishing to drink from that cup has another whole "story" behind it that I wish not to go into in this message (but had nothing to do with doubt). Those who do not believe in God simply do not believe in the words of preachers because preachers do not base much in the resource of Reason. The missing link is that Reason (internal source) is the real "face of God" which is also called "the indwelling spirit of truth". If you do not believe in Jesus, that is okay. If you do not believe in someone's elses concept about what a God is, that is okay. But if you turn away from belief in the indwelling spirit of Reason - then you are indeed up the creek with no paddle. Now you know. Technosoul.

Jun 12, 2005, 01:36 am	#87 (permalink) (top)
cjhanrahan Love is Everywhere Location: California Posts: 10	Immobility is lack of transportion, but questioning is not a lack of life.

Jun 12, 2005, 05:57 pm	#91 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	Yes, read the thread "What is the Meaning of Life?"

Jun 12, 2005, 05:58 pm	#92 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	And the purpose of the afterlife?