Why are churches targeting same-sex marriage?

[belverron]

"The various forms of the dissolution of matrimony today, like free unions, trial marriages and going up to pseudo-matrimonies by people of the same sex, are rather expressions of an anarchic freedom that wrongly passes for true freedom of man," the new Pope said.

I would like to know how legalization of same-sex marriages would harm the faiths which oppose, not the relationships themselves, because most do, but legal recognition of those relationships. Are they afraid of a loss of credibility with their worshipers? Why must they not only teach this lesson but also make it such a difficult one to break? If this sin is illegalized, what about all the others which are not?

If you haven't inferred this already from my array of questions, any input is appreciated. I don't expect a systematic reply to my post.

[The Analog Kid]

Why is the left, through the courts, forcing same sex marriages on society when society overwhelminly doesn't approve of it?

I would like to know how legalization of same-sex marriages would harm the faiths which oppose, not the relationships themselves, because most do, but legal recognition of those relationships. Are they afraid of a loss of credibility with their worshipers? Why must they not only teach this lesson but also make it such a difficult one to break? If this sin is illegalized, what about all the others which are not?

The bible is pretty clear on it's clear endorsement of a man and woman being united and that the act of homosexuality is a sin.

Non-theologically, It is a union that is above same sex unions as it has the ability to produce offspring which is why the union should be held up above same sex unions.

If one is of the opinion that same sex marriage should be legalized, because it is about people that love one another, and claims that those who oppose it are practicing discrimination and bigotry, then the same person must also advocate for poligamy, brother sister, brother brother, father daughter marriages. To not also endorse these other unions would be practicing a similar level of discrimination and bigotry, not to mention hypocracy.

[Matt W]

Churches attack same-sex marriage because it is an article of faith that this is 'wrong'. Fair enough. Trying to force this into law, though, is drastically excessive. My personal opinion is that same-sex civil unions are absolutely fine, but should not be practised in churches as it would be deeply insulting and almost heretical to do so.

[The Analog Kid]

Churches attack same-sex marriage because it is an article of faith that this is 'wrong'. Fair enough. Trying to force this into law, though, is drastically excessive.

Do you believe that it is only religous people that oppose same sex marriage and do you believe the grounds for opposing same sex marriage are exclusively because churches said so?

[Matt W]

No, not at all. I'm merely responding to the question asked - 'Why are churches targetting same-sex marriage?'. Anything else is somewhat beyond the remit of the debate.

[Leopard]

Why are we allowing government to grant us permission to get married in the first place? Why should government treat married people any different than single people? Are we not all 'equal' in the eyes of the law?

I say get the government out of the 'marraige' business altogether. If a church or organization wants to 'bless' or sanctify some interpersonal contracts and not others, so what? Ok, so the Catholic Church will not 'marry' two same sex people. fine. But the Gay Church of Christ probably will and it harms no one else.

I can't believe that everyone in this country just accepts the idea that government is allowed to dictate to each of us how to run our own lives... its so sad and scary.

[Imudman]

Quote by: Leopard Why are we allowing government to grant us permission to get married in the first place? Why should government treat married people any different than single people? Are we not all 'equal' in the eyes of the law? I say get the government out of the 'marraige' business altogether. If a church or organization wants to 'bless' or sanctify some interpersonal contracts and not others, so what? Ok, so the Catholic Church will not 'marry' two same sex people. fine. But the Gay Church of Christ probably will and it harms no one else. I can't believe that everyone in this country just accepts the idea that government is allowed to dictate to each of us how to run our own lives... its so sad and scary.

But than't not what happens. We have a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. If you don't like what's going on, you can always get together with enough other people and change the way things are.

Personally, I find the idea of same-sex marriage repugnant. But I also recognize that in the spirit of community some sort of arrangement should be made for homosexual people. As for the government sanctioning marriage, well, I say it's a public safety issue. The state has a compelling interest in protecting people who are born into society...

[fedfem]

Quote by: Leopard Why are we allowing government to grant us permission to get married in the first place? Why should government treat married people any different than single people? Are we not all 'equal' in the eyes of the law? I say get the government out of the 'marraige' business altogether. If a church or organization wants to 'bless' or sanctify some interpersonal contracts and not others, so what? Ok, so the Catholic Church will not 'marry' two same sex people. fine. But the Gay Church of Christ probably will and it harms no one else. I can't believe that everyone in this country just accepts the idea that government is allowed to dictate to each of us how to run our own lives... its so sad and scary.

I agree but think the process is archaic anyway. The only reason the government needs to know of a union is in the case of a child and that can be documented through tax forms. Since all babies born receive a SS number, the government has a record. All other aspects of marriage are covered--property requires a legal instrument, health and life insurance require forms etc...When has anybody ever had to show a copy of the marriage license? All contracts are between individuals and the contractor. There should be no additional rights granted or removed because of personal choices in lifestyle. Tax forms are the only time it would be advantageous when a couple is raising a child or they need to claim a dependent and those are also signed by the individuals involved...

Marriage licenses are archaic deeds of property to the husband that no longer apply in our society.

[Matt W]

Folks, as I said in an earlier post, this is purely about why churches are down on same-sex marriages. Can we avoid drifting to a wholesale discussion of homosexuality or marriage in general?

Thanks.

[Thunder Wave]

I can't say that I know how every church feels and Who's God we're talking about because from what I learned in Primary, God loves everyone no matter what. His love is unconditional.

So it's not God who is against Gay marraige, it is the society who manipulate God's words and use them for their own pride and ego. So in an essence it is the fear of and hate for people who are different.

The Bible has been changed so many times that I can not fully say they are God's exact words so anyone replying to me about how God hates gays than maybe they should think about the God I learned about who is actually more loving than the Bible implies.

Which God am I talking about? I'm talking about the God taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which I no longer belong to.

I still believe some of that God, in an essence that he is all loving but I'm currently debating God's existence at all. When God is used to create wars with other countries, I can't seem to think God would allow that. So that is my clutter of thoughts about religion and why it is against gay marraige.

[IndieC]

Wrong. God loves everyone, yes, but he believes that homosexuality is sexually immoral according to numerous books in the Bible. So, he loves you, but homosexuality is seen by most Christians as a temptation, something from the devil, and so, although they respect people who are gay, and accept them, they are disgusted by the behaviour, and expect them to change if they become Christian. You cannot be bound by God, if God deems the reason for the binding immoral. It just doesn't work. Its like forcefully marrying two people, who shouldn't be together, from what one gathers of the Bible, and who will then go on to do more "immoral" deeds.

[Cephus]

Quote by: The Analog Kid Why is the left, through the courts, forcing same sex marriages on society when society overwhelminly doesn't approve of it?

Who says it's any of your damn business?

The bible is pretty clear on it's clear endorsement of a man and woman being united and that the act of homosexuality is a sin.

Luckily, because of separation of church and state, we don't have to pay any attention to the Bible. Isn't that nice?

Non-theologically, It is a union that is above same sex unions as it has the ability to produce offspring which is why the union should be held up above same sex unions.

Fine, do we start denying marriage licenses to people who are infertile, or who choose not to have children, or women over the age of menopause? After all, none of them are producing offspring either.

[IndieC]

This isn't the debate, you can start a new topic if you want, but it has more to do with a State's law rather than religion, which means its even in the wrong part of the forum. The fact is, you should be able to get married legally, in my opinion, even if you are of the same sex as the husband/wife, but that is not the same as a religous ceremony, which is based on what i explained above.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: belverron "The various forms of the dissolution of matrimony today, like free unions, trial marriages and going up to pseudo-matrimonies by people of the same sex, are rather expressions of an anarchic freedom that wrongly passes for true freedom of man," the new Pope said. I would like to know how legalization of same-sex marriages would harm the faiths which oppose, not the relationships themselves, because most do, but legal recognition of those relationships. Are they afraid of a loss of credibility with their worshipers? Why must they not only teach this lesson but also make it such a difficult one to break? If this sin is illegalized, what about all the others which are not? If you haven't inferred this already from my array of questions, any input is appreciated. I don't expect a systematic reply to my post.

I wouldn't expect to find a Da Vinci Code type conspiracy here. It's probably as simple as taking a poll of their worshiping body, seeing a large majority disapprove, and vengfully seeking out retribution.

[ibm]

the pope and the churches are just doing their jobs. like it or not, same-sex marriage is considered, after all, a sin under the religion.

if we expand the topic to the gay marriage or marriage itself, then we could spend days here i suppose.

[Thunder Wave]

I specifically said why the churches attack Homosexual marraige. Pride Ego and, to add, the way most Christians feel that they are the only beings worthy of this planet and so they feel they must force their beliefs on society and that's what this topic is about and that is my opinion on most Christian religions. This planet is filled with non-Christians and all types of people, gay, straight, transgendered, and bi. So why does one belief have to over rule all of Society? Why condemn those who don't believe the same as you?

Because of pride ego and fear, that is why people and religions act against those they don't understand, relate with, feel they are "beneath" them, and must go on controlling other people's lives to better suit theirs and their beliefs.

[belverron]

I hadn't realized I'd gotten some replies until this popped back to the top of the list. Thank you all for your input. Now, let's see.

Quote by: The Analog Kid The bible is pretty clear on it's clear endorsement of a man and woman being united and that the act of homosexuality is a sin.

This is a major thing I want to address. Is it a sin to allow other people to sin? If so, could I get a quote from the Bible? It's on my reading list, but I'm not there yet.

Quote by: IndieC This isn't the debate, you can start a new topic if you want, but it has more to do with a State's law rather than religion, which means its even in the wrong part of the forum. The fact is, you should be able to get married legally, in my opinion, even if you are of the same sex as the husband/wife, but that is not the same as a religous ceremony, which is based on what i explained above.

Thanks for trying to "defend the sanctity" of my post. I would like to clarify that, though legal issues involved with same-sex marriage are not the topic of this post, the interaction of church and government are in-bounds for this discussion.

Quote by: ibm the pope and the churches are just doing their jobs. like it or not, same-sex marriage is considered, after all, a sin under the religion.

So, are the pope and the churches responsible for our governments in addition to their worshippers under those governments? Are they there to protect their worshippers from the ungodly as well as from the lures of Satan?

[Sonart]

Quote by: The Analog Kid Why is the left, through the courts, forcing same sex marriages on society when society overwhelminly doesn't approve of it?

For the same reason that most white Americans were against the forced integration of the military, that most white Americans were indifferent to the plight of blacks before the civil rights movement, that men were opposed to equal rights for women before the 70's women's movement. We tend to get mired in long standing traditions that blind us to the fact that they are based on ignorance and in direct contradiction to the ideals this country was founded on... freedom and equality.

Quote by: The Analog Kid The bible is pretty clear on it's clear endorsement of a man and woman being united and that the act of homosexuality is a sin.

The Bible is pretty clear on it's endoresement of slavery as well, Kid. Do you advocate slavery? And while I'm unclear exactly how clear the New Testament is on homoseuxality as a sin, the Old Testament certainly was, but then the Old Testament was clear on a lot of things being sins -- or being acceptalbe, such as genocide -- which I doubt you would agree with today.

Quote by: The Analog Kid brother sister, brother brother, father daughter marriages.

Such taboos are based on basic biological realities... the necessity for diversity of a gene pool.

Quote by: Leopard Why are we allowing government to grant us permission to get married in the first place? Why should government treat married people any different than single people? Are we not all 'equal' in the eyes of the law?

Because, Leopard, the raising of families is a direct benefit to society.

That does not mean, however, that allowing gays to marry represents, in any way, shape or form, a threat to families. And beyond the basic rhetoric that it just does, I have yet to hear exactly how it does represent a threat. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Quote by: Indie Wrong. God loves everyone, yes, but he believes that homosexuality is sexually immoral according to numerous books in the Bible.

Apparently God thinks a lot of things are immoral, according to the Bible, many of which we ignore today. On the other hand, slavery was considered perfectly moral according to the Bible, including the New Testament. Do you accept that?

.

[ibm]

Quote by: belverron So, are the pope and the churches responsible for our governments in addition to their worshippers under those governments? Are they there to protect their worshippers from the ungodly as well as from the lures of Satan?

i believe the separation of the church and the state is fundamental in our country.

[belverron]

I guess a major issue with same-sex marriage is that government has co-opted an institution that used to be the province of religion. I think that was a mistake. Would the debate be the same if the only thing government could grant was civil unions and marriage was a separate ceremony performed by a church?