Do all religions lead to God?

[Rave7pt0]

That difference isn't one that I can reconcile directly, but I can say this:

Aside from a solitary line in the Bible saying that it is appointed unto man to live only once, there really isn't that much difficulty incorporating reincarnation into the Christian belief system: instead of being born once, living your life, and going to either heaven or hell, you'd be born again and again until you either went to heaven, or were lost in oblivion.

Many liberal Christians actually hold this belief.

The real question is why the difference exists in the first place, and I think that can be traced back to the Jewish focus on history -- Judaism, and Christianity are both historical religions, with a beginning in their cosmogony, and an eventual end (tribulation, etc), moving along a straight time line. It makes sense for an historically focused religion to have individual life cycles mirror the larger whole, which is to say that they both have a definite beginning and end.

Hindus and Buddhists take this time line and say "Well, if God and Heaven came first, then all this other stuff happened, then it goes back to God and Heaven at the end, why would it stop there?" -- So instead of a beginning and an end, they see the two as being connected, or even one and the same, and so where a Christian says "Genesis, now, tribulation, end," a Hindu might say "Genesis, now, Tribulation, Genesis, now...," then, just as their Christian and Jewish counter parts, they mirror the larger whole in their conception of the life cycle of a person, and make it cyclical instead of linear.

I guess my question to you is, given that the Bible doesn't explicitly cover what happens after the whole Kingdom of Heaven on Earth thing, who's to say that all this won't happen again? Who is to say that it hasn't happened before? After all, the Bible says that in the beginning there was God -- well, as I've discussed, everything is God, by Christian definition, so a glorious kingdom certainly qualifies -- then he created the universe. The Bible goes on to say that the universe sort of becomes one with God again (after tribulation), then doesn't specify what happens after that.

I don't find that to be terribly incompatible after all.


To answer your question, I come from a Christian background, but I've seen enough to know that Christianity is one facet to a gorgeous, complex, jewel. I've seen Buddhists and Daoists move their Chi with my own eyes, and I've even seen a neo pagan perform a ritual that worked -- I don't know how it all fits together, but I'm working on it. If you want to know my belief structure in a nutshell, I believe in love -- I believe it behooves us as parts of a greater whole to love everything and everyone with all of our beings.

[FIFI]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 To answer your question, I come from a Christian background, but I've seen enough to know that Christianity is one facet to a gorgeous, complex, jewel. I've seen Buddhists and Daoists move their Chi with my own eyes, and I've even seen a neo pagan perform a ritual that worked -- I don't know how it all fits together, but I'm working on it. If you want to know my belief structure in a nutshell, I believe in love -- I believe it behooves us as parts of a greater whole to love everything and everyone with all of our beings.

It sounds like a great exploritory journey you are on. But a note to all out there; just because you explore other religions or beliefes, doesn't mean your betraying or leaving your original system..

[Rave7pt0]

Quote by: FIFI But a note to all out there; just because you explore other religions or beliefes, doesn't mean your betraying or leaving your original system..

Yes, seconded.

[belverron]

"Love as thou wilt." ^.^

[SNPete]

Quote by: FIFI It sounds like a great exploritory journey you are on. But a note to all out there; just because you explore other religions or beliefes, doesn't mean your betraying or leaving your original system..

II agree. I’ve studied a lot of other religions, to varying degrees. I find other belief systems, including atheism fascinating. My step father was a member of the American Atheists.

[SNPete]

Quote by: belverron "Love as thou wilt." ^.^

That quote sounds strangly familiar. Where is it from. I know it is not from the Bible.

[SNPete]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 . I guess my question to you is, given that the Bible doesn't explicitly cover what happens after the whole Kingdom of Heaven on Earth thing, who's to say that all this won't happen again? .

Well, I am always careful to not form a theology based on what the Bible does not say. So based on what is said in the Bible, it appears that when the New Heaven and the New Earth are created, we will dwell with God on a new and perfect earth forever. End of story.

[belverron]

I know it from Kushiel's Dart, a novel by Jacqueline Carey. Whether that is its original source, I do not know.

[SNPete]

OK, here is one for you and anyone else, who has something constructive to say.

Note. I will use the term heaven to represent the end goal of a religion, the good place we go after all is said and done

.....................................
Assuming all religions are valid, which would you choose and why.

1. A religion that says to get to heaven one has to work out your past mistakes and sins and takes many lifetimes to achieve this goal.

2. A religion that says you can get to heaven in one lifetime if you accept a gift from God and try your best. This gift cancels your past mistakes and sins

[Athena]

Quote by: SNPete What do you think of the Bible? How do you view Jesus?

I think the bible begins with Sumerian stories of the gods, translated by Hebrews. I really wish people would deal this, instead of completely ignoring it.

I think the Hebrews were faithful to Amenhotep IV, the Eyptian pharaoh who tried to establish monothesism in Eygpt. His holy city was distroyed by the military and priest who wanted to take back the power they had when Amenhotep IV and his wife died. I think the Hebrew fled into the wilderness and continued the pursuit of truth. I think they mingled with barbarians from the north, adding animal sacrifice to the religion. I think they migrated to Ur and translated the Sumerian stories.

I think bible study without study of history and common beliefs and practices of the past is unfortunate. The idea of modern people correctly interpreting what the original writers intended is ridiculus. I get frustrated with the denial that the biblical God actually told Hebrews they could own slaves but because they were special to God, they could not be slaves. But back to the Sumerian stories, I believe these were based on actual human experience. I think the original story of creation tells us about major draught, and a return of rains filling the rivers, and then rationalize how a God created humans, from their experince of making clay statues, only humans don't have the power to breath life into clay statues and the Goddess did have that power.


For Jesus, I think he was human just like you and me. I think he was used by those who wanted to create a new religion, however, I also think there is value in studying his teachings along with Buddaism. I think a study of Buddaism is important to the correct interpretation of Jesus. Eygptian thelogy is important to understanding Chrisitanity. Well all popular beliefs at the time were important to Christianity because the religion is the result of using the Roman Law of Nature, which was a legal tool, applied to religious truths.

[Rave7pt0]

I'd choose 1 -- have you ever seen a petulent rich kid who was given everything from the get go, and appreciates none of it? Enlightenment is a journey, not a destination.

[belverron]

My knowledge is insufficient to make such a choice.

[Athena]

Quote by: Starboy Not that we do not, that we can not. Just recognition that even though we can't create our own reality it is still very common for people to try anyway. That is reality, the question is how to understand it. Starboy

What do you mean by we can not create our own reality? Honestly, this statement with the way I think collides in my brain leaving me in a state of total confusion. Almost everything around me looks like man made reality to me. The city I am in now is much closer to nature, compare to LA, California which is so removed from nature, it is determental to humans physically, mentally and spiritually. We have polluted the rivers, lakes and oceans, extracted mineral resources from the soil to the point of elementating them from they once were. What on earth has not been changed by man?

[Starboy]

Quote by: Athena What do you mean by we can not create our own reality? Honestly, this statement with the way I think collides in my brain leaving me in a state of total confusion. Almost everything around me looks like man made reality to me. The city I am in now is much closer to nature, compare to LA, California which is so removed from nature, it is determental to humans physically, mentally and spiritually. We have polluted the rivers, lakes and oceans, extracted mineral resources from the soil to the point of elementating them from they once were. What on earth has not been changed by man?

You spend too much time looking at the tops of your shoes. If you are ever in the country where the skys are dark look up sometime. We are so caught up in our own little world that most of us are oblivious as to just how tiny a part of reality it is. But whatever it is we will learn more about it if we look, and are honest in our explanations.

Starboy

[Agent007]

First, see my first post, although I do not remember if it relates to your question. Second, I would choose the second option because it brings comfort in one's life knowing that he or she will meet God in a relatively short period of time; this comfort is one of the main reasons Christianity grew in Rome. No matter what are the circumstances of one's life, whether that person is rich or poor, full or hungry, or clean or dirty, he or she can find some meaning in life. Thus, that person will be willing to lead a virtuous life as is prescribed by those who want to help him or her reach God, such as priests of the church.

[Inquisitor]

Friend, I disagree with you. You have a very unique theology. I prefer to let the Bible make my point in this post, because you claim the Bible does not support my view.

It is a mistake to use The Holy Scripture separatly from The Holy Tradition of The Church which produced The Holy Scripture in the first place.

In your Bible please read: John 3:16-17, Romans 6:23, Romans 10-8-14 and Ephesians 2:8-10.

I shall try to the best of my humble abilities.
John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

What you may not completly understand is the fact that belief is not simply acceptance of the fact. Belief is the action. All the actions I described that are needed for salvation. That is constant battle with yourself, sacrifice, martyrdom etc. For belief without action is hypocracy.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

This confirms my words. The gift is free, but one must be worthy to recieve it.

[Agent007]

SNPete, what would you say about my choice?

[SNPete]

Quote by: Agent007 SNPete, what would you say about my choice?

I would agree with your choice. My two main reasons are:

1. My being able to get to heaven is guaranteed, because it is a gift. Perhaps Rave7pto can correct me, but I believe option one offers no guarantee of heaven.

2. For myself, I would rather get to heaven in this lifetime, rather than go through many lives. That could take thousands of years.

Here's athought. What if humankind really messes up the environment or has a nuclear war before I have achieved heaven through reincarnation, boy that would suck!