Do all religions lead to God?

[SNPete]

Quote by: fedfem SNP-What sources do you think Luke used to compile his gospel? I know he writes as an eyewitness to some of the events in Acts with Paul but since he was not a contemporary of Jesus, how did he verify the birth and such? Also, why is his dating off as far as the census as well as the crucifiction/resurrection sequence compared to the other gospels? Do you think they were added later on?

You know, I have never researched into that area. Never felt the need or had the interest or time. My understanding is that Luke talked to every eyewitness to Jesus he could find to compile the Book of Luke. As far as the dating being off, I don’t know why.

[Rave7pt0]

Sorry I skipped some of the posts in here because of Starboy's normal bull, but I wanted to add a correction to the original post.

You got Hinduism all wrong: Hindus believe in one God, and that God is the whole of reality. Everywhere, at all times. This Godhead is called the Brahman. Aspects of this ultimate, transcendent God are expressed in a sort of hierarchy of personalities and characteristics, such as Vishnu and Shiva (who are sort of equal on the totem pole). The "4 top gods" you listed aren't really accurate, for example, Krishna is the name for the incarnation of Vishnu (of which there have been like 14, depending on who you ask).

Hindus seek oneness with the Godhead -- they want to realize their connection with Him, and thus be (to borrow from sister religions) "enlightened."

In Christianity, the same omnipresent God exists, and we try to join Him in Heaven. This is a simplistic understanding though: In the OT God says to Moses "I am." Yahweh is the "great I am," he is the first-person of the universe, which is to say that He is one and same with the universe. We don't need this clear evidence to draw the same conclusion: Christians have a lot of "omnis" for God. Omnipresent, omnipotent, omni benevolent, etc. If an infinite God exists, then there can be no "room" for anything else -- not physically, spiritually, or mentally. So, for a Christian, we are all one with God, and He with us, but we are smaller aspects that are reaching toward "heaven," or the state of mind in which one realizes that God is in all things, and thus in the state of mind where we become one.

What I've just described are two practically identical systems of belief in what some may consider the most opposite of all major religions. The part that people get bogged down is details. Was it Krishna, an incarnation of Vishnu, or was it Jesus, the son of Yahweh? Was it a demon holding the clouds back then the warrior God defeating him, or was it God and Noah's ark? The real question is, does it make any fucking difference? Of course it doesn't... it's the same beliefs, in the same higher power, wrapped in different culture.

It's that artificial separation that gives people like Starboy their smug reassurance that religion is crap and his arrogant, materialistic attitude must be correct. He believes that we can see the untruth in the myths of others, but are dishonest in our belief in our own myths. Starboy is a victim of our shortsighted culture of specificity and precision as truth, and cannot see that all these stories are not a picture, but more like a finger pointing at a landscape that might be in the picture.

[SNPete]

I stand corrected on Krishna. But the fact remains that Hindus do worship a number of gods and employ the use of idols of those gods in worship. They may seek the Godhead, but they do not worship the Godhead. My understanding of the Godhead is that it is an impersonal force.

In contrast God is a personal being who is involved with people’s lives. Two examples are the answering of prayers and the giving of guidance. In addition, the first two of the 10 commandments state that your are to not worship any other gods or make idols. Please read Exodus 20:2-6 and Isaiah 44. So here we disagree.

And then there is the issue of reincarnation versus living only once.

[Inquisitor]

SNPete Inquisitor I wounder where this heresy comes from? Because what you said about Christianity is not consistent with either Holy Scripture or Holy Tradition. Care to elaborate? Which part of my statement do you disagree with and why?

The idea that all you have to do to be saved is to allow! Jesus to be you saviour is pure heresy, because:
1. You don't do Jesus a favour the opposite is true.
2. Salvation is a hard work. In fact it's constant battle every day and hour of your life with your wicknesses, sins and temptations.
3. Salvation demands huge courage. You have to confess Jesus always regrdless of consequences. That is you shouldn't be stopped by being called unfashionable, religious fanatic, anti semite etc. Things you invariably will be called.
4. There is only one guaranteed way to be saved I know of. That is to accept death for Christ. But only few are given this privelege.

From what you say about your understanding of Christianity I take it that you belong to one of protestant sects. Make no mistake thay all teach heresy and endanger you immortal soul.

[SNPete]

Quote by: Inquisitor The idea that all you have to do to be saved is to allow! Jesus to be you saviour is pure heresy, because: 1. You don't do Jesus a favour the opposite is true. 2. Salvation is a hard work. In fact it's constant battle every day and hour of your life with your wicknesses, sins and temptations. 3. Salvation demands huge courage. You have to confess Jesus always regrdless of consequences. That is you shouldn't be stopped by being called unfashionable, religious fanatic, anti semite etc. Things you invariably will be called. 4. There is only one guaranteed way to be saved I know of. That is to accept death for Christ. But only few are given this privelege. From what you say about your understanding of Christianity I take it that you belong to one of protestant sects. Make no mistake thay all teach heresy and endanger you immortal soul.

Friend, I disagree with you. You have a very unique theology. I prefer to let the Bible make my point in this post, because you claim the Bible does not support my view.

In your Bible please read: John 3:16-17, Romans 6:23, Romans 10-8-14 and Ephesians 2:8-10.

I am sorry that for you being saved is a struggle and an uncertainty, but perhaps these scriptures will help you to see that salvation is a gift and we do not earn it. However, God does expect us to be good people who try their best to show His love.

[Agent007]

I agree with you, SNPete. Jesus has saved all humans from their original sin and damnation to hell by dying as an incarnation of God the Father. He is God the Son, just as the Holy Ghost is God the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Trinity. We are expected to respect Jesus' sacrifice of his earthly life by following him and his teachings as Christians. I believe the purest and most untainted way to do this act is through Roman Catholicism, but perhaps some Christians do not think so. Neverthless, if Christians lead good lives, do not sin excessively, and belief in the Holy Trinity of God and that Jesus died for everyone, then they will go to Heaven. However, if they did all of this except they did not get forgiven for some major sin before death, then it is believed that they will go to Purgatory, where they must reform into beings who are as close to perfect as is possible and they will go to Heaven in the end.

[Inquisitor]

Friend, I disagree with you. You have a very unique theology.

This theology is not my. This is dogma of The Holy Orthodox Church, the spiritual body of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I prefer to let the Bible make my point in this post, because you claim the Bible does not support my view.

I prefer interpretation of Holy Fathers. Are you a saint? I doubt it.

I am sorry that for you being saved is a struggle and an uncertainty, but perhaps these scriptures will help you to see that salvation is a gift and we do not earn it.

I wish it was that easy.

However, God does expect us to be good people who try their best to show His love.

He expects us, but we will be saved regardless? It is a free gift according to you.

I am sorry to say but you are a heretic, or rather a victim of heresy.

Yes I think salvation is battle. And I don't think it is a free gift.Remember?
Enter ye in at the strait gate' for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Bemuse strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life and few there be that find it (Matt. 7:13-14).

[SNPete]

Quote by: Inquisitor This theology is not my. This is dogma of The Holy Orthodox Church, the spiritual body of Our Lord Jesus Christ. I prefer interpretation of Holy Fathers. Yes I think salvation is battle. And I don't think it is a free gift.Remember? Enter ye in at the strait gate' for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Bemuse strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life and few there be that find it (Matt. 7:13-14).

Friend, I think I see your problem. You are trusting in the dogma of The Holy Orthodox Church and the teaching of men instead of the Bible and the Holy Spirit.

I see Matt 7:13-14 as the command for people to make the choice for Christ and enter by the straight (narrow) gate, the gate of Christ.

Please quote and comment on these three sections of the Bible: Romans 6:23, Romans 10-8-14 and Ephesians 2:8-10.

I look forward to your interpretation of these passages.

[Rave7pt0]

Quote by: SNPete I stand corrected on Krishna. But the fact remains that Hindus do worship a number of gods and employ the use of idols of those gods in worship. They may seek the Godhead, but they do not worship the Godhead. My understanding of the Godhead is that it is an impersonal force. In contrast God is a personal being who is involved with people’s lives. Two examples are the answering of prayers and the giving of guidance. In addition, the first two of the 10 commandments state that your are to not worship any other gods or make idols. Please read Exodus 20:2-6 and Isaiah 44. So here we disagree. And then there is the issue of reincarnation versus living only once.

You have to view this from a multicultural perspective to understand their beliefs. They DO worship the one God (and if you ask them, they'll tell you they are monotheistic). Just as Christians have the Holy Trinity, which is 3 persons making one God, Hindus choose to understand the same God in terms of different aspects. The difference is that they don't merely divide God into three -- they divide God, then divide the divisions ad infinitum, which is no more a violation of Christian law is than the trinity itself. They see all lesser "gods" as aspects of the One... the idea that they "worship many gods" is something that has been enforced by foreign observers, and is alien to them. As a Christian, you don't worship three Gods do you? Of course not -- one God, three aspects.

As for idols, again you have to see it from their eyes and look outward, not from yours looking in. If all things are part of the one Brahman, then these "idols" -- the idea of them, and indeed the very metal and other material they are made of -- literally personify aspects of the one true, infinite God.

I would venture to say that that idea is far less like idol worship than what Roman Catholics, for example, do with their saints -- at least the Hindu believe the statues are part of the one God -- Catholics just build statues of people and pray to them! Now who's worshipping idols?


The fact is that in the details, sure they are different, but if you study the cosmology of every major world religion, they are fundamentally similar.

[belverron]

SNPete keeps calling Inquisitor "friend." This Christian brotherhood stuff is nauseous.

[SNPete]

Quote by: belverron SNPete keeps calling Inquisitor "friend." This Christian brotherhood stuff is nauseous.

My my, you must really hate Christians if the thought of their brotherhood nauseates you.

BTW The term friend is used as a tool to set the tone of my response. Has nothing to do with Christian brotherhood.

[Starboy]

Quote by: SNPete My my, you must really hate Christians if the thought of their brotherhood nauseates you. BTW The term friend is used as a tool to set the tone of my response. Has nothing to do with Christian brotherhood.

If you desire to be that kind of brother then why bring up religion at all?

Starboy

[SNPete]

Quote by: Starboy If you desire to be that kind of brother then why bring up religion at all? Starboy

Your post makes no sense. Could your elaborate?

Also your statement, "Why bring up religion at all?" seems puzzling. Could you pease repeat the name of this thread.

[Starboy]

Quote by: SNPete Your post makes no sense. Could your elaborate? Also your statement, "Why bring up religion at all?" seems puzzling. Could you pease repeat the name of this thread.

If you wish to think of an atheist as a friend or brother then it will have to be based on something else other than shared religious convictions.

Starboy

[SNPete]

Quote by: Starboy If you wish to think of an atheist as a friend or brother then it will have to be based on something else other than shared religious convictions. Starboy

So? What is your point? Why can't I have a friend of my choosing. I do it all the time. Half my friends are not religious. You seem to be an odd fellow.

[Starboy]

Now this:

Quote by: SNPete So? What is your point? Why can't I have a friend of my choosing. I do it all the time. Half my friends are not religious. You seem to be an odd fellow.

is a funny thing for a person to say that also said this:

My my, you must really hate Christians if the thought of their brotherhood nauseates you. BTW The term friend is used as a tool to set the tone of my response. Has nothing to do with Christian brotherhood.

Do not berate belverron for deciding who will and will not be their "friend" when you reserve that same right for yourself.

Starboy

[SNPete]

Quote by: Starboy Do not berate belverron for deciding who will and will not be their "friend" when you reserve that same right for yourself. Starboy

Your logic escapes me. Belverron said Christian Brotherhood makes him ill. What is your point? Could you please elaborate.

[Rave7pt0]

In an effort to get this thread back on topic, could you please respond to my latest post, Pete?

[SNPete]

Quote by: Rave7pt0 In an effort to get this thread back on topic, could you please respond to my latest post, Pete?

It would be nice if starboy would only write constructive and intelligent posts.

On the other hand, I appreciate the information and your well thought out post. I think that I will agree to disagree on Christian and Hindu concepts of deity and move on to a second related point.

How would you reconcile the apparent difference between the Judeo-Christian belief in one life only and the Hindu-Buddhist belief in many lives, aka reincarnation?

Also would you care to reveal what religion you follow, if any? As you can guess, I am a Christian.

[belverron]

Quote by: SNPete Your logic escapes me. Belverron said Christian Brotherhood makes him ill. What is your point? Could you please elaborate.

That wasn't quite my meaning. I was referring to the specific instance of Christian brotherhood in which you insisted on calling Inquisitor "friend" even though he was telling you that you'll go to Hell.