Do all religions lead to God?

[SNPete]

Quote by: Aequo SNPete, that particular phrase is commonly used as a retort when somebody asks an inane "what if" question.

The usual reason for the sort of response given by Starboy in post 14 is the inability or unwillingness to answer a question. A poor way of handling your side of a discussion.

The fool has said in heart, there is no God. Psalm 14:1

[Athena]

I am so impressed. Your thoughts are food for my soul. I just got out of a discussion group where it was normal to insult the other person and say nothing about the subject.
Truly human beings need reasoning and agreements that are above their basic animal urges. I am in favor of a concept of God, because it lifts our thoughts above that basic animal condition of life. It lifts our potential, be it the GreeksGods or later concepts of God.

I have been told by a Jew that Jews focus less on God and more on ethical relationships with people. I believe Christianity is more superstitious than Judaism or Islam, but clearly they share the same basic concept of God and the same prophets of old. Christianity once separated from Greek philosophy was later very influenced by Aristotole and Plato, but unfortunately this is not well known. I think all these, and early Greek and Eyptian beliefs were influenced by Sumer.

The story of creation is almost certainly a Hebrew interpretation of a Sumerian story of a river being cursed to death because it ate a Goddess' plants. A fox convinced the Goddess to let the river live, and when the river was healthy again, it asked for helpers to help him stay in his banks so he wouldn't eat her plants. She made a man and woman from mud and breathed life into them. In this story one of the Goddesses who helped the river live was the Goddess who heals rib "lady of the rid" and "the lady who makes live". Because the Hebrews believed in one God when they translated the story, the Goddess of the rib becomes Eve "lady of the rid" and "the lady who makes live". The purpose of keeping the river in its banks gets dropped, but the Hebrews go on to tell of the great flood that was also a Sumerian story. Importantly the concept of sin was changed in the Hebrew translation and gets tangled with the need to make animal and human sacrifices.

Relgions do not necessary move in the direction of God, but can move in the direction of self interest. This was clearly so with the concept of patron Gods and Goddesses, which later becomes patron saints, and is clearly so with Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Athena Truly human beings need reasoning and agreements that are above their basic animal urges. I am in favor of a concept of God, because it lifts our thoughts above that basic animal condition of life. It lifts our potential, be it the GreeksGods or later concepts of God.

Consider the possibility that fairness and cooperation are also animal urges if the animal happens to be of a species that is social. Humans are a very social species. But built into every social species is a normal variation. Just as there is a variation in height, hair color and so on there is also a variation in how cooperative or selfish people are.

I have been told by a Jew that Jews focus less on God and more on ethical relationships with people. I believe Christianity is more superstitious than Judaism or Islam, but clearly they share the same basic concept of God and the same prophets of old. Christianity once separated from Greek philosophy was later very influenced by Aristotole and Plato, but unfortunately this is not well known. I think all these, and early Greek and Eyptian beliefs were influenced by Sumer.

I have known a few Jews in my life and for the most part have found them to be good people. I especially like the fact that other than the Christian Jews they do not proselytize, not even the extreme orthodox. There are also many Jews that see god more as the personification of guiding principles rather than the personification of reality. I do not care much for animist. Their thinking is much too magical for my tastes.

The story of creation is almost certainly a Hebrew interpretation of a Sumerian story of a river being cursed to death because it ate a Goddess' plants. A fox convinced the Goddess to let the river live, and when the river was healthy again, it asked for helpers to help him stay in his banks so he wouldn't eat her plants. She made a man and woman from mud and breathed life into them. In this story one of the Goddesses who helped the river live was the Goddess who heals rib "lady of the rid" and "the lady who makes live". Because the Hebrews believed in one God when they translated the story, the Goddess of the rib becomes Eve "lady of the rid" and "the lady who makes live". The purpose of keeping the river in its banks gets dropped, but the Hebrews go on to tell of the great flood that was also a Sumerian story. Importantly the concept of sin was changed in the Hebrew translation and gets tangled with the need to make animal and human sacrifices.

Have you ever read any Joseph Campbell?

Relgions do not necessary move in the direction of God, but can move in the direction of self interest. This was clearly so with the concept of patron Gods and Goddesses, which later becomes patron saints, and is clearly so with Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

It is very easy to do when you are an animist.

Starboy

[The Analog Kid]

Quote by: Gorgo I'm not sure what you mean by "humanist," I guess that means that you don't like humans,

No silly. It means I believe there is a higher power than man. Humanist=Communist

but as an atheist and skeptic, I try not to believe. I try to think instead.

Ah. You obviously have strong amount of faith that your views are correct. Otherwise you would not be on a web-board spewing your silly beliefs.

[Starboy]

Quote by: The Analog Kid No silly. It means I believe there is a higher power than man. Humanist=Communist

Are you very sure that a humanist is automatically a communist? I don't know all that many humanists but none that I know said they were communists. Most are for free enterprise. What makes you think that a humanist is a communist? Where did Lenin or Marx ever even mention humanism?

I don't know where you get your information about humanists but if I were you I would suspect the source.

Starboy

[G. Adams]

Quote by: The Analog Kid No silly. It means I believe there is a higher power than man. Humanist=Communist

I'm an anarcho-communist, yet not a humanist, I very much do have a religion and spirituality quite seriously. I'm not alone either. Many communists who are not dogmatic Marxists are also religious.

So, explain that one.

[belverron]

Quote by: RickSp I think of religion as addressing a deep seated need to cope with the limitations of human awareness as constrasted with the vastness of existence. It is not suprising that doctrine tends to converge or overlap, just as most mythologies are remarkeably similar even across diverse cultures.

If we think of religion in terms of memetic evolution, they would be analogous ^.^

BTW: The symbol you used in your post, the same symbol used on the cover of the New King James translation of the Bible, may have satanic overtones. See here: http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html

And... if you're not a "practitioner of the occult," you don't believe it has any meaning, do you? So what's the problem? You can use it to stand for the holy trinity. People recycle many symbols. As for the claim made that "Acts 17:29 clearly FORBIDS such symbology," it's clearly a load of crap. The verse clearly refers to products of man, not symbols, and only forbids thinking of the symbol as God, in any case. I wish the Christians who actually read their bibles would learn how to do it properly. I'm sure there is an edition that cuts all of the archaisms. The near-illiterate people ought to buy it, or else join the Catholic church: they still hold the custom of leaving the bible to clergymen from when people were all illiterate.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: The Analog Kid Ah. You obviously have strong amount of faith that your views are correct. Otherwise you would not be on a web-board spewing your silly beliefs.

If I have beliefs and faith, they are almost by definition silly. That's why I try to lose them and try to think instead.

[belverron]

Quote by: SNPete BTW Religions are, by definition, based on the belief of the supernatural. Douglas Adams is an athiest and he is entitled to his view. There are many people, as educated as he, who will strongly disagree with his opinion, myself included.

Douglas Adams was an atheist. He died in 1998 of a heart attack at age 52, I believe.

[belverron]

Quote by: SNPete The usual reason for the sort of response given by Starboy in post 14 is the inability or unwillingness to answer a question. A poor way of handling your side of a discussion. The fool has said in heart, there is no God. Psalm 14:1

Why don't each of you have some respect for the other? Starboy, there's no need for you to explain why you believe religion is foolish every time someone posts from a religious vantage. SNPete, you have already admitted in this thread that Douglas Adams was an educated atheist. Atheism is not stupidity.

When I call someone foolish, at least it's not because of their religious leanings*. It may be because of something that results from those leanings, but that's still a step up.

*Unless they're a scientologist. Does that make me a hypocrite?

[Starboy]

Quote by: belverron Starboy, there's no need for you to explain why you believe religion is foolish every time someone posts from a religious vantage.

Please point out in this thread where I have done that. The most I have done is show that there are other explanations. Other points of view. If SNPete thinks that I have directly called religious foolish then that is SNPete's problem.

Starboy

[belverron]

I have already seen you state on numerous occasions that you believe religion is rooted in fear, not Truth. I don't happen to believe it's Truth, either, but that doesn't mean I have to belittle it in your way. It doesn't have any real bearing on this discussion.

[SNPete]

Quote by: Starboy Please point out in this thread where I have done that. The most I have done is show that there are other explanations. Other points of view. If SNPete thinks that I have directly called religious foolish then that is SNPete's problem. Starboy

Actually, I respect your opinion. I disagree with you, but it is a free country. Hey, truth is objective. I am 55 and have no need to prove anything. Ah, the wisdom of years!

[Starboy]

Quote by: belverron I have already seen you state on numerous occasions that you believe religion is rooted in fear, not Truth. I don't happen to believe it's Truth, either, but that doesn't mean I have to belittle it in your way. It doesn't have any real bearing on this discussion.

My question still stands.

Starboy

[rez]

Quote by: SNPete I suspect that you are an athiest and that's OK. But for the sake of discussion, what if it turns out that God is real and there is a life after death? I say this from the Christian perspective. BTW Religions are, by definition, based on the belief of the supernatural. Douglas Adams is an athiest and he is entitled to his view. There are many people, as educated as he, who will strongly disagree with his opinion, myself included.

Hey, could I please have some names of these well educated christians, so maybe I could read what they say and come to a conclusion if all religions lead to God?

[SNPete]

Quote by: rez Hey, could I please have some names of these well educated christians, so maybe I could read what they say and come to a conclusion if all religions lead to God?

Friend, if you are truly interested in this matter. I would suggest starting with the New Testament. Anything else is only the opinion of man. I say this because every book written by learned people about Jesus is based on the Bible and their opinion. Come back when you have done this. The book of Luke was written by a medical doctor.

[samsara15]

On Hinduism - Brahman is their single God, and all other Gods are merely aspects of Brahman, as I understand it, so Hinduism is really monotheism. Look it up in Wikipedia.

[Inquisitor]

SNPete When you die you either go to heaven or hell and you retain your separate, personal identity. Whether you go to heaven or hell is not dependent on your good works, but on whether you personally accept the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross and allow Him to be your savior.

I wounder where this heresy comes from? Because what you said about Christianity is not consistent with either Holy Scripture or Holy Tradition.

[SNPete]

Quote by: Inquisitor I wounder where this heresy comes from? Because what you said about Christianity is not consistent with either Holy Scripture or Holy Tradition.

Care to elaborate? Which part of my statement do you disagree with and why?

[fedfem]

Quote by: SNPete Friend, if you are truly interested in this matter. I would suggest starting with the New Testament. Anything else is only the opinion of man. I say this because every book written by learned people about Jesus is based on the Bible and their opinion. Come back when you have done this. The book of Luke was written by a medical doctor.

SNP-What sources do you think Luke used to compile his gospel? I know he writes as an eyewitness to some of the events in Acts with Paul but since he was not a contemporary of Jesus, how did he verify the birth and such? Also, why is his dating off as far as the census as well as the crucifiction/resurrection sequence compared to the other gospels? Do you think they were added later on?