natural selection

[jeafl]

Quote by: Pooeypants Why not? Can you suggest a mechanism to stop evolution?

Why is it necessary to propose a mechanism to stop a process that has not happened anyway i.e., the origination of taxa higher than the species by natural selection?

[jeafl]

Quote by: Dadoo Bellis spp. are quite common here in my region. They are small white, pink and red daisies. The 3 kinds are always, always found together. There was originally, one color- white, brought from england by western-bound settlers long ago. Accordingly, a red variety, previously unrecorded was spotted. These hybrid pinks now arise in every population, but only in the presence of reds and whites.

Hybridization of flowers to achieve different color is not even speciation, much less macro-evolution.

Evolution only takes one generation at a time. One, small, seemingly insignificant change in physio-morphological construct and related behavioiur adaptation is indeed, Evolution.

I have not said it was not. But is it speciation? Is it origination of higher taxa?

However, many mutations are neither successful nor detrimental.

Aren’t most mutations deleterious?

As far as speciation is concerned, that is dependent upon the scope of the observer, as the taxonomy and nomenclature proves; the parameters of sciences own definitions are in constant flux; ever-refining.

In other words you Darwinists believe whatever you need to believe to satisfy whatever you want to believe. Some science.

[Agent007]

Assuming evolution does exist, then populations, which are in their own niches, would adapt to better survive in them. Niches, by the way, are the combinations of an organism's environment and its occupation in the environment; for instance, the niche of freshwater fish may be a lake and may be to eat smaller fish and kelp. If organisms do not adapt, then they may perish due to ecological effects. There was an incident in England with black and white moths that alternatively dropped in population due to industrialization and pollution that either helped or hindered their respective camouflages on trees that may have been colored with soot. So, if a major geological disaster or change, for example, occurred on Earth, then either all species would be wiped out, or some populations of species would adapt to the changes and in turn create a new species. Their genetic change, which makes them adapt to the environmental disaster, is brought about by their natural selection. The entire theory of evolution relies on natural selection bringing about morphological and physiological changes that result in a progressive macroevolution. One could only say that relatively tiny, anaerobic heterotrophs evolved into comparatively complex humans if he or she supported this ideal.
P.S.: I do not support evolution, though, since I support Catholic, creationist beliefs and I do not see the possibility of macroevolution and natural selection occurring over a certain time frame and against so many odds.

[belverron]

Quote by: jeafl ...not even speciation, much less macro-evolution.

That's a foolish statement to make. Speciation would prove macroevolution irrefutably.

[belverron]

Quote by: jeafl Is it origination of higher taxa?

No taxon is really "higher," per se.

[Dadoo]

A-ha I understand, now.
I agree with you.

Good luck.
Dadoo

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: jeafl Aren’t most mutations deleterious?

No, most mutations are silent because we have a degenerate code. I thought you had a degree in biology?

[MerlinsByte]

What laboratory confirmation of natural selection’s ability to produce innovative morphological or physiological changes has there ever been?

Given the prior posts I can think of none, good thread Jeafl....


mb

[MerlinsByte]

BY PooeyNo, most mutations are silent because we have a degenerate code. I thought you had a degree in biology?

Merlin...Evolutionary theory (hee hee, haw ha ha...sorry) states that once an evolutionary trait is lost, its genetic code will rapidly degenerate, since there is no longer selective pressure to prevent deleterious (harmful) mutations to the gene(s) which encode the trait.

A newly published study brings this idea into question, since it suggests that wings appeared and disappeared in phasmids (stick insects) at least four times. Since the study covered only 14 of the 19 known sub-families of phasmids, it is possible that wings reappeared even more times.

Pooey do you realize the implications of this information?

More and more information for the destruction of myth of evolution of the species

[Pooeypants]

Well, in terms of major phenotypical changes that has been observed in our generation, would be the evolution of multiple drug resistance in S. aureus. It is classic natural selection.

If speciation is what you're looking for, it has also been observed. Not however, most of these species have short generation times because evolution happens to populations, not individuals.

[MerlinsByte]

By pooey...If speciation is what you're looking for, it has also been observed. Not however, most of these species have short generation times because evolution happens to populations, not individuals.

Staphylococcus aureus strain NCTC 8325 is a species of bacteria. No one here that I know of is saying that adaptive change cannot happen within the framework of a species.

The drug resistance of many common bacteria and virus represent nothing that allies the THEORY of evolution of the species.

mb

[Agent007]

When a population of a species adapts to survive in its own changing niche, then it in turn becomes a new species. Slowly, as more populations adapt--while others are wiped out due to no adequate adaptions--more diverse species are generated. Thus, macroevolution occurs progressively over a given time period. However, I find it very improbable for evolution to have occured; the chances of relatively complex beings, such as humans, coming into existence by random evolution by natural selection and genetic drift are extremely low.

[fedfem]

Quote by: jeafl What laboratory work has been done with the platypus?

Well here is one...
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/101/46/16257

The duck-billed platypus (Ornithorhynchus anatinus) is one of three extant species of the egg-laying monotremes whose ancestors are believed to have diverged from the mammalian lineage 210 million years ago and some 30 million years before the divergence of marsupials and placental mammals (1). Its unique mixture of mammalian, avian, and reptilian features (2) has excited biologists for more than two centuries. For geneticists, the platypus undoubtedly provides a special outgroup species because it represents the earliest offshoots of the mammalian lineage. Studies in monotremes can answer questions about sex determination, genomic imprinting, and dosage compensation in mammals.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Agent007 When a population of a species adapts to survive in its own changing niche, then it in turn becomes a new species. Slowly, as more populations adapt--while others are wiped out due to no adequate adaptions--more diverse species are generated. Thus, macroevolution occurs progressively over a given time period. However, I find it very improbable for evolution to have occured; the chances of relatively complex beings, such as humans, coming into existence by random evolution by natural selection and genetic drift are extremely low.

There is the phenomenon of evolution which is nothing more than change over time and then there is the explanation of evolution which is an explanation of why species change over time.

Okay, so you all seem to agree that species change over time. Good. That is a start. Now explain it.

Starboy

[Dadoo]

Morphic resonance, SB
See Rupert Sheldrake, "The Greening of God and Science"

New habits arise due to endogenous and exogenous vectors of behaviour.
New habits breed new traits,over time, and a creature grows into it's design, based as much on lifestyle and diet, as on predetermined genetics. In a nutshell. The concept struck me as quite possible, complimentary to existing beliefs.

Or why don't you explain it SB? Can you?

[Agent007]

Keep in mind that acquired characteristics of an organism are not passed on to offspring. Examples of acquired characteristics are individual diets and severed limbs.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Dadoo Or why don't you explain it SB? Can you?

The best explanaiton I am aware of to date is called "The Theory of Evolution". If you have something that works better then go get your Nobel Prize.

Starboy

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: MerlinsByte Staphylococcus aureus strain NCTC 8325 is a species of bacteria. No one here that I know of is saying that adaptive change cannot happen within the framework of a species. The drug resistance of many common bacteria and virus represent nothing that allies the THEORY of evolution of the species. mb

The exact same principles is applying. Speciation is a sum of these changes in allele frequencies. This is high school science, I thought you said you were well versed in evolutionary biology.

[belverron]

Quote by: Agent007 Keep in mind that acquired characteristics of an organism are not passed on to offspring. Examples of acquired characteristics are individual diets and severed limbs.

Wrong.... Obviously, a severed limb won't be passed on, but a diet might. While some animals operate almost exclusively on instinct, the types we're mostly talking about have at least a limited capacity to learn. Don't forget that.

[Dadoo]

Ergot infested rye grasses cause severed limbs, poisoning and insanity in many types of grazing animals and humans alike.
I do not see how any speciation occurred due to ergot poisoning, but certainly, if an entire population were to lose limbs and survive, previously unrecognized traits could become a boon to a scarce few, and thusly procreate with greater vigor and abundance than the specimens with no such "trait".
Yes, I see how, over time diet could change a population.
Indeed, within a generation, subsequent generalized morphological changes due to extreme changes in environmental factors could change the face of a population strikingly. A step, perhaps in the span of special generation; proto-evolution from a macro standpoint.
Dadoo