Islamic Terrorist and PC think.

[Matt W]

'Notorious', only because the US government feels the need to proclaim their names to the world. Notice how they leave off all the organisations who kill innocents who they like??? Ask anyone from any other country and watch how the list changes.

I don't have to go back to the Crusades, tb, but it's there. History is important.

And I still want to see why you feel the need to paint all Muslims as bad - this is so un-American it's untrue! You want them to wear a yellow cresent too? Why do you violate the Constitution you profess to respect?

[tinybear]

I never said all Muslims are bad, Matt. what I do say, however, is that for the past few decades, Islam has bred the most terrorists.

[Matt W]

And because of this, you feel it's ok to stereotype all Muslims as such?

As for the 'most terrorists', again, that is a matter of perspective. Why are there 'terrorists' in Iraq? Because they're Muslim? Or because America is occupying them? Is this their fault?

[tinybear]

Matt, you may treat the Iraqi terrorists as heroes and freedom fighters, but the reality is they are not. They are just Sunni Muslims pissed off at the fact that the new democratically elected Iraqi government is dominated by the Shiites and the Kurds. That's why their bombs kill fellow Iraqis and Muslims as well as Americans, Brits and people from the coalition forces. They're political assassins and in so far as they target non-combatant civilians, they are murderous terrorists who should be hunted down and killed without mercy.

[Matt W]

*laughs* Good deflection, tb.

You treat Islam and all Muslims with contempt, you attempt to tar them all with the same brush, and you swallow the US Administration's version of events, hook, line, and sinker. Nice to know you have an enquiring mind.

I repeat, I'm not being 'PC' by calling you out on this - I'm trying to stop you from constantly insulting my friends from your cosy HK apartment.

[tinybear]

I never said you were being 'PC'. I believe that you were voicing your honest opinions. I just think you're wrong that's all.

And I'm not insulting your friends unless they happen to terrorists or religious fanatics supporting terrorism.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Gorgo Right. Condemning Israel for their crimes is not anti-Semitic, condemning the U.S. for their crimes is not anti-American, etc.

Exactly.

Given all the comments about "rag-heads", "towel-heads" and posts titled "What Muslims Want" (featuring a Wahabist screed) I think Mr. V doth protest too much. There are more than a few folks on this board who do seem to be inable to seperate "terrorism" from Islam in general.

Of course there are flag waivers who think any criticism of our mad King is un-American too, so I guess it shouldn't be surprising.

[Matt W]

And I'm not insulting your friends

See Ricks' comments above. Until you stop posting crap scare-mongering stuff about all Muslims, and stuff like the 'What Muslims want', then I say you are.

[tinybear]

Whatever you say, Matt. Whatever you say. :)

[Matt W]

That's right. I'm the Mod in this conversation

Seriously, tb, your comments (to me) border on racist rhetoric. And I personally find it offensive that you choose to happily slander all Muslims like this whilst blindly ignoring the faults of the US, or even remotely acknowledging cultural differences, attitudes, and history.

[fedfem]

Quote by: tinybear Notorious terrorists of the past 30 years. Count how many of them are Muslims, Matt. * Osama bin Laden * Ayman Al-Zawahiri * Abu Musab al-Zarqawi * Ramzi Yousef * Khalid Shaikh Mohammed * Hambali * Abu Faraj al-Liby * Ali Mohammed * Mohammed Atta * Jose Padilla * Mohammed Jamal Khalifa * Dr. Rashid * Zacarias Moussaoui * John Walker Lindh * Timothy McVeigh * Terry Nichols * Eric Rudolph * Carlos the Jackal * Abu Nidal The Crusades? Haha! You have to go that far back in history?

In the last century all groups regardless of their religion have used terrorism when battling large governments to achieve their ends. Terrorism is a tactic mostly employed to bring attention to oppression.(perceived or real)

The most violent tend to use religion as justification. Here is a link and some quotes by the Stern Gang--(Jewish Terrorists)

"Neither Jewish morality nor Jewish tradition can negate the use of terror as a means of battle.
"...We are quite far from moral hesitations on the national battlefield. We see before us the command of the Torah, the most moral teaching in the world: "Obliterate - until destruction." We are particularly far from this sort of hesitation in regard to an enemy whose moral perversion is admitted by all.
"But primarily terror is part of our political battle under present conditions and its role is large and great:
"It demonstrates, in clear language, to those who listen throughout the world and to our despondent brothers outside the gates of this country of our battle against the true terrorist who hides behind his piles of papers and the laws he has legislated.
"It is not directed against people, it is directed against representatives. Therefore it is effective.
"If it also shakes the Jews in Israel from their complacency, good and well.
"Only so will the battle for liberation begin."
-- He Khazit (The Front, a Lehi underground newspaper), Issue 2, August 1943. The italicised quotation is a combination of two Biblical references to the Amalekites, Ex. 17:14 and Num. 14:45: Utterly blot out their remembrance...and destroy them completely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_Gang

[Agent007]

I think that when some people are saying that all of Islam is condemned with the condemnation of terrorists, they mean that some accused terrorists are profiled and prejudiced simply because they are Muslims and may have "unpopular political views."

[Matt W]

when some people are saying that all of Islam is condemned with the condemnation of terrorists

I don't say that, Agent - I just object to tb slandering all Muslims by her slanting of news, attempting to pass off one radical cleric as the voice of 'all Muslims', her ignoring of other sources than the Bush Administration, and her (undenied) stereotyping. I have no problems with saying Islamic terrorists are nutcases - I merely have a problem with the implilcation that all Muslims are wife-beating, terrorist-supporting cheerleaders who must be regarded with suspicion and persecuted because of the actions of a few.

[Agent007]

Oh no, mattw, I was referring ot Mr. Vicchio when he writes about the "comments of some members" in the first post. Additionally, I agree that the terrorists are bad while the general Islamic population should not be stereotyped as terrorists' supporters.

[Matt W]

No probs, Agent. Personally, I think Mr.V was aiming some (if not all) of this thread at me, as I've argued that some of the 'solutions' proposed to get rid of Islamic terrorists amount to collective punishment and religious persecution. As a result, I'm obviously advocating surrender to these fanatics.... :eek:

[Agent007]

Wait...what are we debating about now? I think both sides are pretty much saying the same thing: that the Muslim terrorists should be persecuted while other Muslims should not be.

[Digital Man]

I didn't see where she bordered on racism since being a muslim has nothing to do with race....What she did post was two thought provoking links about the religion based on direct quotes from the quran

[Matt W]

Digital Man - well done. I said it borders on racist rhetoric. Maybe I should have said racist-style rhetoric. Whatever. Her intention are clearly obvious - to slander all Muslims. And I've seen several threads/comments like this, which I am not particularly happy about, and I have argued with tb about this. She has yet to deny she's stereotyping - and has indeed admitted it. So I call her a bigot. I'm not being PC, I'm being seriously aggrieved that someone has the audacity to label a significant proportion of the world's populace as wife-beaters, etc (see above) based on a very one-sided view of the news and the actions of some fanatics.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: tinybear Notorious terrorists of the past 30 years. Count how many of them are Muslims, Matt. * Osama bin Laden * Ayman Al-Zawahiri * Abu Musab al-Zarqawi * Ramzi Yousef * Khalid Shaikh Mohammed * Hambali * Abu Faraj al-Liby * Ali Mohammed * Mohammed Atta * Jose Padilla * Mohammed Jamal Khalifa * Dr. Rashid * Zacarias Moussaoui * John Walker Lindh * Timothy McVeigh * Terry Nichols * Eric Rudolph * Carlos the Jackal * Abu Nidal The Crusades? Haha! You have to go that far back in history?

Notice no mention of: -


James Monaghan
Evelyn Glenholmes
Baruch Goldstein
Michael McKevitt
Theodore Kaczynski
Andreas Baader
Wolfgang Grams
Beant Singh and Satwant Singh
Francisco Mujika Garmendia

I think its pretty much a given fact that in the past 30 years, groups such as the IRA, ETA, RAF, FARC have been far more active than any Islamist terrorists.

If you want I can do only 90's only and i bet that the IRA have been nore prolific. Its only in the past 5 years that Muslim extremists have been more prolific. Thats only because the IRA, and other major groips of the late 20th century have all declaired cease fires.

[tinybear]

I could rattle off another list of Muslim terrorists, but what's the point? Fact is Islamic terrorists are currently America's No. 1 enemy. Any American who finds it OK to defend their actions is just one step away from being a John Walker.