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castille · Jun 2, 2005, 02:54 am

I really can't see the difference on a real level, but what is the technical difference between religion and cult? I mean Christianity tries to brainwash their followers and take their money, and so does the IKSA (a minor local cult).

What classifies each into "religion" and "cult"? Is paganism a cult or religion?

belverron · Jun 2, 2005, 03:17 am

As far as I'm concerned it's a cult when the followers become completely irrational or when they become violent, which probably requires the former.

Fred Phelps heads a cult, and no doubt about it.

tinybear · Jun 2, 2005, 03:17 am

The number of converts/members? I mean the more there are, the more mainstream you become. Then you elevate yourself from cult to religion. :p

belverron · Jun 2, 2005, 03:30 am

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

The number of converts/members? I mean the more there are, the more mainstream you become. Then you elevate yourself from cult to religion. :p

I completely disagree. I think that faith should be completely personal, so the argument that more people means more legitimacy doesn't sit well with me.

tinybear · Jun 2, 2005, 04:09 am

Well, why not? See, if enough people start worshipping the Sun God and call themselves the Sun Worshippers, then sun worship becomes a religion. It's just like soccer in Brazil. Acceptance by the majority or at least by a sizeable minority is the key to the birth of a religion.

Paavo · Jun 2, 2005, 06:11 am

Quote:

The number of converts/members?

That's what I'd say too.
The reason a major religion's ideas don't seem as cooky as some weirdo cult's ones is probably because they've been "mainstreamed." Also, with the number of followers growing, the rules and stuff need to be watered down to accommodate the membership's every opinion and view.

Starboy · Jun 2, 2005, 01:22 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

The number of converts/members? I mean the more there are, the more mainstream you become. Then you elevate yourself from cult to religion. :p

I agree. Certainly when Christianity was new it was considered a cult by the mainstream. The only difference between then and now is that there are enough Christians to claim legitimacy and force it to stick. But it is no more legitimate than it was in its cult stage by any other criterion except that there are now more members. When a religion starts loosing popularity and loses enough adherents it becomes a myth.

Starboy

fedfem · Jun 2, 2005, 01:38 pm

By definition, a cult is a group that has a charismatic leader that they see as infallible and the adherents are cut off from the rest of society including their families.

Most religions began as cults(according to the definition)but became acceptable as the numbers grew. Mormons for example...are considered a legitimate religion under the law. Scientology was a cult(and is still considered as one by many)but has received "religion" status in the past 25 years.

I personally see them all as cults.

**Chris the Chees** · Jun 2, 2005, 02:09 pm

One person who believes the preaches the occult is insane.

A group of people who preach and believe in the occult are a cult.

A million people who preach and believe in the occult are a religion.

farside · Jun 2, 2005, 05:56 pm

What Are Some Characteristics of a Cult?

1. Authoritarian in their power structure
2. Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members
3. Pyramidal structure
4. Uses thought reform techniques
5. Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society
6. Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising
7. Promotes dependence of the members on the group
8. Totalitarian in their world view
9. Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of 10. repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking
11. Appear exclusive and innovative
12. Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life
13. Controls the flow of information
I14. Instills a fear of leaving the group.

Source – http://hometown.aol.com/carol2180/wcult.htm

Kind Regards
Farside

MerlinsByte · Jun 3, 2005, 08:09 pm

It is my opinion that there is no difference between a "cult" and a religion.

cult according to websters...a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents

sigmonic · Jun 4, 2005, 12:13 am

there is no difference.

i use to live in SLC, UT. they sometimes have these christians infront fo the temples preaching, holding up signs and handing out flyers. so i decide to talk to one.. couldn't believe he was a christian.. but anyways we started talking about cults (well, its utah.. mormons...) and he said well.. christianity is a cult also. went on to say something like how it came from the original church of jesus christ- this converstation was 2 years ago but i remember how he said it was a cult and thinking it was pretty funny.

he was actually a preacher too.

so far i think people got it right here though. the word is used more to slander someones relgious beliefs (their personal religion).

just as i made a reference to mormons. who are LDS but most non mormons or christians (at least ones i've talked to) look at them as a cult. when then are infact a relgion.

but hey.. whats the real difference.

religion just sounds better.

Technosoul · Jun 4, 2005, 03:14 am

Once upon a time Timothy Leary established this religious cult where they used drugs instead of wine as a sagrament. (hope I spelled that last word correctly). The Supreme Court ruled that you cannot start a new religion to legalize a unlawful drug. Under law the court cannot stop anyone for any ritual that involves a religous belief system, that is a religion. Or course cults on not unlawful as long as they do not violate any laws. During prohibition the Christians could use wine in religious rites in spite of the fact no one else could indulge (which is where Leary got his bight idea about making the LSD cult a religion. The court stated that a religion must have a long history that can be clearly documented. A cult might be old but has no recorded history of bieng in effect through out the ages or else it is some new "start up group".

Mainsteam Christians (sometimes) view any other belief system as a cult (more or less) but those views are just for the sake of programing their own people and is not a fact.

Many books about cults suggest that they use brainwashing methods that cut the members off from the rest of the world so that they become totally in service of the cult leader (such as the Bush cult does) but some mainstream religions also do that but in a much milder manner. Cults can also be non-religious if they believe in a different kind of process. Example; someone like Dr. Phil could have a cult following.

The trouble is that our culture often attempts to make the word cult sould evil, as they do for the term Occult. But you never know, todays cult could be tomorrows culture, they all started somewhere in much smaller numbers.

So currently the mainstream uses the word cult as meaning something negative to be avoided so that you do not become "abducted" and loose your social connections with family and friends.

Not sure what the dictionary said, that would be the best place to look.

Technosoul.

MerlinsByte · Jun 4, 2005, 08:35 am

.Any religion or cult can brainwash an individual. Here in the hills of east Tennessee (yes I am a devout hillbilly, open theist Christian) there are horror stories of so called Christian ministers robbing little old ladies of their live savings to save their soul. Also we have the occasional blood sacrifice (but no humans yet). by the black circle boys,( who call themselves Satanists but haven't a clue what a true Satanist is). So cults and religions are wide in scope and wider in their beliefs, even here in the sticks.

We also have a native American church (at strawberry plains knoxville) where peyote is available as sacrament. Does anyone know the legal status of peyote as a religious sacrament for the native American church?

Jun 2, 2005, 02:54 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	What's the difference between religion and cults? I really can't see the difference on a real level, but what is the technical difference between religion and cult? I mean Christianity tries to brainwash their followers and take their money, and so does the IKSA (a minor local cult). What classifies each into "religion" and "cult"? Is paganism a cult or religion? Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jun 2, 2005, 03:17 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,299	As far as I'm concerned it's a cult when the followers become completely irrational or when they become violent, which probably requires the former. Fred Phelps heads a cult, and no doubt about it. If only I could saith, so should I.

Jun 2, 2005, 02:09 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Chris the Chees Moderator Location: Wales Posts: 2,203	One person who believes the preaches the occult is insane. A group of people who preach and believe in the occult are a cult. A million people who preach and believe in the occult are a religion. Society may be formed so as to exist without crime, without poverty, […] no obstacle whatsoever intervenes at this moment except ignorance to prevent such a state of society. Robert Owen

Jun 4, 2005, 12:13 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
sigmonic Sedimentary Rock Location: SLC, UT Posts: 17	there is no difference. i use to live in SLC, UT. they sometimes have these christians infront fo the temples preaching, holding up signs and handing out flyers. so i decide to talk to one.. couldn't believe he was a christian.. but anyways we started talking about cults (well, its utah.. mormons...) and he said well.. christianity is a cult also. went on to say something like how it came from the original church of jesus christ- this converstation was 2 years ago but i remember how he said it was a cult and thinking it was pretty funny. he was actually a preacher too. so far i think people got it right here though. the word is used more to slander someones relgious beliefs (their personal religion). just as i made a reference to mormons. who are LDS but most non mormons or christians (at least ones i've talked to) look at them as a cult. when then are infact a relgion. but hey.. whats the real difference. religion just sounds better. "To be is to be something as opposed to nothing, and to be something is to be something specific." Last edited by sigmonic; Jun 4, 2005 at 12:17 am.

Jun 2, 2005, 03:17 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	The number of converts/members? I mean the more there are, the more mainstream you become. Then you elevate yourself from cult to religion. :p

Jun 2, 2005, 04:09 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	Well, why not? See, if enough people start worshipping the Sun God and call themselves the Sun Worshippers, then sun worship becomes a religion. It's just like soccer in Brazil. Acceptance by the majority or at least by a sizeable minority is the key to the birth of a religion.

Jun 2, 2005, 01:38 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	By definition, a cult is a group that has a charismatic leader that they see as infallible and the adherents are cut off from the rest of society including their families. Most religions began as cults(according to the definition)but became acceptable as the numbers grew. Mormons for example...are considered a legitimate religion under the law. Scientology was a cult(and is still considered as one by many)but has received "religion" status in the past 25 years. I personally see them all as cults.

Jun 2, 2005, 05:56 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
farside Sedimentary Rock Posts: 7	What Are Some Characteristics of a Cult? 1. Authoritarian in their power structure 2. Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members 3. Pyramidal structure 4. Uses thought reform techniques 5. Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society 6. Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising 7. Promotes dependence of the members on the group 8. Totalitarian in their world view 9. Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of 10. repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking 11. Appear exclusive and innovative 12. Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life 13. Controls the flow of information I14. Instills a fear of leaving the group. Source – http://hometown.aol.com/carol2180/wcult.htm Kind Regards Farside

Jun 3, 2005, 08:09 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	It is my opinion that there is no difference between a "cult" and a religion. cult according to websters...a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents

Jun 4, 2005, 03:14 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,650	Once upon a time Timothy Leary established this religious cult where they used drugs instead of wine as a sagrament. (hope I spelled that last word correctly). The Supreme Court ruled that you cannot start a new religion to legalize a unlawful drug. Under law the court cannot stop anyone for any ritual that involves a religous belief system, that is a religion. Or course cults on not unlawful as long as they do not violate any laws. During prohibition the Christians could use wine in religious rites in spite of the fact no one else could indulge (which is where Leary got his bight idea about making the LSD cult a religion. The court stated that a religion must have a long history that can be clearly documented. A cult might be old but has no recorded history of bieng in effect through out the ages or else it is some new "start up group". Mainsteam Christians (sometimes) view any other belief system as a cult (more or less) but those views are just for the sake of programing their own people and is not a fact. Many books about cults suggest that they use brainwashing methods that cut the members off from the rest of the world so that they become totally in service of the cult leader (such as the Bush cult does) but some mainstream religions also do that but in a much milder manner. Cults can also be non-religious if they believe in a different kind of process. Example; someone like Dr. Phil could have a cult following. The trouble is that our culture often attempts to make the word cult sould evil, as they do for the term Occult. But you never know, todays cult could be tomorrows culture, they all started somewhere in much smaller numbers. So currently the mainstream uses the word cult as meaning something negative to be avoided so that you do not become "abducted" and loose your social connections with family and friends. Not sure what the dictionary said, that would be the best place to look. Technosoul.

Jun 4, 2005, 08:35 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
MerlinsByte BANNED Posts: 1,267	.Any religion or cult can brainwash an individual. Here in the hills of east Tennessee (yes I am a devout hillbilly, open theist Christian) there are horror stories of so called Christian ministers robbing little old ladies of their live savings to save their soul. Also we have the occasional blood sacrifice (but no humans yet). by the black circle boys,( who call themselves Satanists but haven't a clue what a true Satanist is). So cults and religions are wide in scope and wider in their beliefs, even here in the sticks. We also have a native American church (at strawberry plains knoxville) where peyote is available as sacrament. Does anyone know the legal status of peyote as a religious sacrament for the native American church?