Oh Dear Is This What's Happening In A Church?

[Cephus]

Quote by: moustache maybe so cephus, but how many cases have you heard of in the catholic church, an how many have you heard about in the Orthodox church?

How many cases were widely known in the RCC prior to maybe a decade ago? They covered it up successfully for many, many years, almost institutionalizing the denial and shuffling of pedophile priests until finally the dam broke.

Who knows what might be coming next year for the Orthodox church? Maybe not a pedophile scandal, but something else?

[moustache]

Quote by: Cephus How many cases were widely known in the RCC prior to maybe a decade ago? They covered it up successfully for many, many years, almost institutionalizing the denial and shuffling of pedophile priests until finally the dam broke.

This is still addressing the catholic church's problem. You still have no evidence of the Orthodox church having anything like this under its roof.

Quote by: Cephus Who knows what might be coming next year for the Orthodox church? Maybe not a pedophile scandal, but something else?

Im not sure what your implying by "something else"...But your whole statement is based on "what if" anyhow.

What if next year pigs could fly cephus?

[asterix404]

Who knows what happens in a chruch? A priest has a certain amount of inocence about him. Hell it took how many people to come out before it was believed? In any religion like christianity the priest has near infinate power. Do what I say or you will not get into heaven, esp with very young boys and girls who don't know any better... and who were told from everyone since they were 2 to obay your elders and do what adults tell you since they know whats best. I will not be duprsied it it happens to every passionate religion....

[moustache]

Quote by: asterix404 In any religion like christianity the priest has near infinate power.

Im not sure what youve been reading, but the priest absolutely does not have near infinite power.

Quote by: asterix404 Do what I say or you will not get into heaven

In my church, im not sure about yours, but in my church this statement would never be taken seriously if a priest said this, he would immediatly be kciked out of the church.

Quote by: asterix404 esp with very young boys and girls who don't know any better...

I was taught at a young age to know that people touching me would be wrong. I also plan to teach my children the same thing.

Quote by: asterix404 and who were told from everyone since they were 2 to obay your elders and do what adults tell you since they know whats best.

Again, I was never taught this? I was told tht when someone tries to touch you in any way, it is Wrong.

Quote by: asterix404 I will not be duprsied it it happens to every passionate religion....

no proof? thats right...

I wouldnt be suprised if shoes grew on trees.

[Inquisitor]

That's a pretty good post, Inquisitor, but I disagree that religion isn't meant to control people.

Thank you. Allow me to explain. Orthodox Christianity is not meant to control people. It's meant to help people control themselves. The Dogma of The Orthodox Church states that life of a Christian is constant battle with himself in order to become a better person. I see nothing wrong with it, neither 2000 years of history show anything bad happening because of this.

If the Ten Commandments weren't about controlling behaviour, then what was the point of them being given to Moses?

Let me give you an example. When one buys a packet of cigarets it says " smoking causes lung cancer" or "smoking harms you health". Do they try to control you? No it simply is information about consequences of particular actions. Another example is road signs, if a sign says " slippery road ahead" it doesn't treaten you with punishment, it simply informs you that if you don't slow down , you will lose control of the vehicle.

What better way to have an orderly society than to have one with true religion at it's foundation..?

I agree with you absolutely. The best form of government is Absolute Monarchy with Christian Tzar.

Who knows what might be coming next year for the Orthodox church? Maybe not a pedophile scandal, but something else?

The big difference is, Orthodox priests are all married man, so they are normal sexually.That is not to say that they are saints. Orthodox Church has its problems also. And yes there is something else. For example Russian Orthodox Church is now infiltrated by jews who occupied almost all the highest positions in The Church. So right now there is an interesting situation when laymen and common priests maintain The Dogma while The Churches leaderships tries to destroy it.

[moustache]

well put my orthodox friend.

[castille]

Christianity doesn't control us. It just threatens us with eternal torture if they don't follow their laws.

[Cephus]

Quote by: moustache Im not sure what your implying by "something else"...But your whole statement is based on "what if" anyhow.

You're the one who is claiming the Eastern Orthodoxers could never do anything wrong and I'm pointing out that you're incorrect. They just haven't been caught in anything yet. I'm sure the Catholics thought the same thing before the first molestation case came to light.

What if next year pigs could fly cephus?

It wouldn't change the fact that humans, no matter what their beliefs, are still human and still fallable.

[moustache]

Quote by: Cephus You're the one who is claiming the Eastern Orthodoxers could never do anything wrong and I'm pointing out that you're incorrect.

What I did claim, is that the Eastern Orthodox isnt doing anything wrong right now. there have been no cases of any wrong doing in the Orthodox church...Therefore, you cannot claim that the Orthodox church is committing these disgusting acts.

Quote by: Cephus I'm sure the Catholics thought the same thing before the first molestation case came to light.

As Inquisitor pointed out, the circumstances of the Catholic church, and the Orthodox church are much different. The main reason being Orthodox priests can marry.

Quote by: Cephus It wouldn't change the fact that humans, no matter what their beliefs, are still human and still fallable.

Of course humans are fallible, but this still doesnt change the fact that of all the years that Orthodoxy has been around, they have had no reports of disgusting acts like those in the news article presented.

there is no proof of your allegations, therefore your statement cannot be deemed intelligent.

[asterix404]

And the whole point is that I wouldn't be suprised if any religion that takes themselves very serisouly would. My religion doesn't... and we know we are just here to have a good time. I would strongly sugest that priests do. Perhaps not in this day and age... but why do you think that it took 30 40 50 years for people to come forward? Do priests ever lie? Can they... would anyone ever think that a priests word is always the truth? It may not be happening in your religion but I can gaurentee that it has, it must have.... is there any proof ... was there any proof 10 years ago? 20 years ago? That any of this was happening and where. You can not tell me that this is as narrow as you would like it to be... but it as least a serious concern.

You should see when I Was in catholic shcool how the priests were reveard. If you made them happy you made god happy... And I was told from all schools ever since I was 4 that I should do what my parents and adults told me to do... don't speak with your mouth full... sit down in chruch, don't speak here, don't hit, don't do all of this... try to be a good child. IF you are 9... this is inate. You should be able to trust your priest to guid you... hell since you were baptized the priest could be telling you that it's a sin to doubt the chruch... and since hte priest represents the chruch it is a sin to doubt him. I am not saying that this is everywhere. Hell I don't even know if it is anywhere... I know I have nothing to substantiate it, but just cuz you say it doesn't happen doesn't mean that it doesn't. The fact is you can not provide me proof that every one of your priests has not... just like I can not show that any one of your priests has. I believe that if you put faith and trust as a child from a very young age in someone else, esp religion but anything just as bad... anything at all can happen. I am sorry if it sounds like I am atacking your religion in particular... but it's insain to think that this doesn't ever happen... just becasue it hasn't reached fox news yet.

[Imudman]

Quote by: moustache As Inquisitor pointed out, the circumstances of the Catholic church, and the Orthodox church are much different. The main reason being Orthodox priests can marry.

Okay, I've not said anything until now because I didn't want to rock the boat. Over and over again people say things like this. I'm not necessarily picking on you, moustache. It's just that your's is the post that finally drove me to say something.

The notion that somehow not having sex drives priests insane is ridiculous. Or that because a few priests molested childrden, then all priests must be sick because after all, it's not normal to go without sex. :rolleyes:

Most priests....most of them, nearly all of them, make sacrifices out of a love for God and his people. No one forces them not to have sex. They're entirely normal.

Thanks for letting me vent a little...

[Cephus]

Quote by: moustache What I did claim, is that the Eastern Orthodox isnt doing anything wrong right now. there have been no cases of any wrong doing in the Orthodox church...Therefore, you cannot claim that the Orthodox church is committing these disgusting acts.

No, you can claim that the Eastern Orthodox hasn't been caught doing anything wrong. For all anyone knows, just like in the RCC, things have been going on and successfully covered up for years. After all, we're finding out now that the molestations have been going on for many, many decades in the RCC and they're only coming to light now.

As Inquisitor pointed out, the circumstances of the Catholic church, and the Orthodox church are much different. The main reason being Orthodox priests can marry.

Oh, I agree with you completely. The RCC has caused a lot of their own problems with their own policies. That's why it is unlikely that the EOC has the same problem. That doesn't mean it has no problems at all though.

[moustache]

To Mudman:

Quote by: Imudman The notion that somehow not having sex drives priests insane is ridiculous

Maybe it does not drive the priests insane, but I think that it adds sufficiently to theyre sexual desires. Why is this statement ridiculous? If you were forced not to celcaby, wouldnt you feel a strong desire to have sex? I know I would.

Quote by: Imudman then all priests must be sick because after all, it's not normal to go without sex.

The orthodox priests are allowed to have sex, so not ALL priests are "sick". I do think it is sick when priests arent allowed to have sex...It is not normal to go without sex.

Quote by: Imudman No one forces them not to have sex

yes the catholic church for example forces its priests to an oath of celebacy.

To Cephus:

Quote by: Cephus After all, we're finding out now that the molestations have been going on for many, many decades in the RCC and they're only coming to light now.

again, information about the catholic church. Face it, the Orthodox church is not the catholic church, and you have no proof of the orthodox church having any sexual crimes under its roof.

So where are you getting these mad ideas that the Orthodox church might have problems that could be unvieled? and dont say that the catholic church has the problems, so the Orthodox church might too...thats like saying my next door neighbor on the right side is gay, so my next door neighbor on the left could also be gay. Its a crazy assumption, its like shooting in the dark.

[moustache]

Quote by: asterix404 You should see when I Was in catholic shcool how the priests were reveard. If you made them happy you made god happy... And I was told from all schools ever since I was 4 that I should do what my parents and adults told me to do... don't speak with your mouth full... sit down in chruch, don't speak here, don't hit, don't do all of this... try to be a good child. IF you are 9... this is inate. You should be able to trust your priest to guid you... hell since you were baptized the priest could be telling you that it's a sin to doubt the chruch... and since hte priest represents the chruch it is a sin to doubt him. I am not saying that this is everywhere. Hell I don't even know if it is anywhere... I know I have nothing to substantiate it, but just cuz you say it doesn't happen doesn't mean that it doesn't. The fact is you can not provide me proof that every one of your priests has not... just like I can not show that any one of your priests has. I believe that if you put faith and trust as a child from a very young age in someone else, esp religion but anything just as bad... anything at all can happen. I am sorry if it sounds like I am atacking your religion in particular... but it's insain to think that this doesn't ever happen... just becasue it hasn't reached fox news yet.

All of these things that the priests taught you...."You should see when I Was in catholic shcool how the priests were reveard. If you made them happy you made god happy", and such, is nt taught in my church. If your priests led you to believe that they are "godlike", then that is probably a big reason why kids in your church are involved in these sexual crimes.

In my church, we do not view our priests as "god", and we do not obey them like dogs.

[asterix404]

But they are human... I like to think that any priest is the same as any other person in society. And yes I am saying that just becasue they have not been cought doesn't mean it didn't ever happen. As a regular human being they are subject to being gay... being a pedophile... a murderer... and how many of these people are their in society? 80% bi... 10% gay... an extreamly small percentage. I think it's about the same with priests. I don't think they are speicial... I thought my priests were full of shit... hell I wasn't and never have been catholic. Just as an interesting question which ortadox are you? Greek... Russian... Jewish? I know a moderate amount about Jewish Orthodox, a little about Russian, and almost nothing about greek. Why do you think that just becasue no one has come forward means that nothing bad happend?

[moustache]

Quote by: asterix404 80% bi... 10% gay... an extreamly small percentage.

80% of people in society are bi? I dont think you got that percentage right....

Quote by: asterix404 Just as an interesting question which ortadox are you? Greek... Russian... Jewish?

I am Greek Orthodox.

Quote by: asterix404 Why do you think that just becasue no one has come forward means that nothing bad happend?

Because of mainly 1 key reason...

1. The priests in the Orthodox Church are not forced to endure celecaby. The priests in the catholic church are un-naturally not allowed sex, which I believe results in them have sexual frustrations. The sexual frustrations are then taken out on these children.

[Inquisitor]

You're the one who is claiming the Eastern Orthodoxers could never do anything wrong and I'm pointing out that you're incorrect. They just haven't been caught in anything yet. I'm sure the Catholics thought the same thing before the first molestation case came to light.

Orthodox Christians are humans and as such can and do many wrong things. I have never claimed that we ( Orthodox) are perfect. My main point is that, because Orthodoxy is The Truth ( unlike catholicism which is heresy) it's less likely to do wrong.

No, you can claim that the Eastern Orthodox hasn't been caught doing anything wrong. For all anyone knows, just like in the RCC, things have been going on and successfully covered up for years. After all, we're finding out now that the molestations have been going on for many, many decades in the RCC and they're only coming to light now.

Correct. I state again that neither Orthodox clergy, nor laymen are infallible. There are many bad things going wrong with Orthodox as well. The difference is, part of Orthodox Church's dogma called Apostasy, it's a teaching about eventual decay of humanity due to inability to stay True to God. So The Orthodox Church teaches that clergy is capable of all sorts of wrongdoings simply because they are humans.
As an example I can give you the story of Patriarch of Jerusalim who sold Church's property to jews. He was deposed last Friday by the desision of Holy Synod.
Another example is supreme clergy of The Russian Orthodox Church who among other sins become involved in ecumenism.

Oh, I agree with you completely. The RCC has caused a lot of their own problems with their own policies. That's why it is unlikely that the EOC has the same problem. That doesn't mean it has no problems at all though.

Agree with you totally. There are huge problems in Orthodox Church. Clearly enemies are infiltrating ranks of Church's clergy. Only Church as whole is infallible. And The Church is whole body of believers not the clergy.

Maybe it does not drive the priests insane, but I think that it adds sufficiently to theyre sexual desires. Why is this statement ridiculous? If you were forced not to celcaby, wouldnt you feel a strong desire to have sex? I know I would.

My brother in Christ. Let's not forget that only priests are allowed to marry. Monks, bishops etc are celibate as well. I would contribute lack of sexual scandals to The Spirit of Truth that dwells within The Church rather than some manmade policies.

Just as an interesting question which ortadox are you? Greek... Russian... Jewish? I know a moderate amount about Jewish Orthodox, a little about Russian, and almost nothing about greek.

I am a Russian Orthodox. Which is no different to any Christian Orthodox be it Greek, Serbian etc. The Dogma is the same.
Orthodox jews are completly different and are in fact our biggest enemies. For example an Orhodox child considered free of sin untill he reaches 7 years of age. A jew is sinful from a moment he is born.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Inquisitor Orthodox Christians are humans and as such can and do many wrong things. I have never claimed that we ( Orthodox) are perfect. My main point is that, because Orthodoxy is The Truth ( unlike catholicism which is heresy) it's less likely to do wrong.

Prove it. They say the same thing about you, remember? Orthodox Christians are just as human and just as fallible as Catholics and there are just as many rapists and child molesters in your church as in any other.

[moustache]

Quote by: Cephus Orthodox Christians are just as human and just as fallible as Catholics and there are just as many rapists and child molesters in your church as in any other.

prove that cephus.
You have no proof of child molesters or rapists in the Orthodox church.
on the other hand there is proof of child molesters and rapists in the Catholic church.

[Cephus]

Quote by: moustache prove that cephus. You have no proof of child molesters or rapists in the Orthodox church. on the other hand there is proof of child molesters and rapists in the Catholic church.

I'm sure that if we went through convicted rapists and child molestors, you'd find people on their prison entrance forms that wrote down Orthodox Christian. Or are you trying to claim that Orthodox Christians are all perfect and commit no crimes?

This is getting ridiculous.