Can/Does God Lie? Theists Only Please.

[Prometheus]

If you are in this thread to say what a crock of crap God is, please extend us the courtesy of not turning this discussion into an atheist/theist debate.

For one reason or another we assume the existance of god. God seems to have told us a lot of stuff through prophets and the like. Many also beleive in revelation, getting knowledge from God. My question is, do we have any idea how accurate this info is.

We have to awknowledge that God *could* lie to us. He is so much more powerfull and or knowledgeble that us that it would be easy to fool us.

The next question would be *if* God would lie to us. We don't know that because we don't know what his motives are. We don't know his motives for sure because he *could* lie to us. We have to conclude that god *might* lie to us.

If god *might* lie to us, is there any way to verify is he is lying? No, he is powerfull and or knowledgeable to fool us.

So really, all we can kow is that God exists. He might be lying about everything else. Does this realization change how we behave toward him? No. Whatever he tells us to do, he wants us to do for one reason or another (wh don't know the motives). If someone so much more powerfull and or knowledgeable than you tells you what to do, it's best to do it.

The conclusion? Do what god says anyway because he can kick your ass.

[jeffl]

Quote by: Prometheus The conclusion? Do what god says anyway because he can kick your ass.

Chicken shit! What the hell kind of reasonable discussion is that? If God would lie to me he can screw off!

He will tell you half truths, after he has told you enough to avoid danger; because you deserve it.

[tinybear]

Sometimes God can tell us some white lies, can't He? I mean you guys don't really believe the stuff about the apple and how eating it would bring disease, suffering...etc, do you?

And, if my memory seves me right, He lied to Abraham. He told Abraham he wanted a human sacrifice; his only son no less!

[Prometheus]

Quote by: jeffl Chicken shit! What the hell kind of reasonable discussion is that? If God would lie to me he can screw off!

Yah, but if god is so powerful, then you might not want to tell him to screw off.

[Prometheus]

Quote by: tinybear Sometimes God can tell us some white lies, can't He? I mean you guys don't really believe the stuff about the apple and how eating it would bring disease, suffering...etc, do you? And, if my memory seves me right, He lied to Abraham. He told Abraham he wanted a human sacrifice; his only son no less!

Those are good examples (although I think the apple was more figurative than a lie).

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus If you are in this thread to say what a crock of crap God is, please extend us the courtesy of not turning this discussion into an atheist/theist debate.

If you only seek sympathetic opinions then why not take this thread to a place where your brand of supernaturalism is given the most credence?

For one reason or another we assume the existance of god. God seems to have told us a lot of stuff through prophets and the like. Many also beleive in revelation, getting knowledge from God. My question is, do we have any idea how accurate this info is. We have to awknowledge that God *could* lie to us. He is so much more powerfull and or knowledgeble that us that it would be easy to fool us.

Why assume that "god" is lying to you all. It is not as if god is standing right behind the prophets when they claim to speak for god. Consider the possibility that the prophets are lying. Consider the possibility that anyone that speaks for god could very well be lying. What does god need with a prophet?

The next question would be *if* God would lie to us. We don't know that because we don't know what his motives are. We don't know his motives for sure because he *could* lie to us. We have to conclude that god *might* lie to us. If god *might* lie to us, is there any way to verify is he is lying? No, he is powerfull and or knowledgeable to fool us.

Your questions are based on a big presumption, which is that the god intermediaries are not lying.

So really, all we can kow is that God exists. He might be lying about everything else. Does this realization change how we behave toward him? No. Whatever he tells us to do, he wants us to do for one reason or another (wh don't know the motives). If someone so much more powerfull and or knowledgeable than you tells you what to do, it's best to do it. The conclusion? Do what god says anyway because he can kick your ass.

Again it is not god making the claims about it self. It is the god intermediaries. What makes you think that any of them are honest? Because they say so?

Starboy

[Prometheus]

Starboy If you only seek sympathetic opinions then why not take this thread to a place where your brand of supernaturalism is given the most credence?

Because this discussion s is about a certain trait of god, it is pointless to debate that god dosent exist in this thread. That is assumed here.

I am not looking for a "sympathetec opinion", just one that is at least open to discussing the topic of the thread - which you are not.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Prometheus If you are in this thread to say what a crock of crap God is, please extend us the courtesy of not turning this discussion into an atheist/theist debate. For one reason or another we assume the existance of god. God seems to have told us a lot of stuff through prophets and the like. Many also beleive in revelation, getting knowledge from God. My question is, do we have any idea how accurate this info is. We have to awknowledge that God *could* lie to us. He is so much more powerfull and or knowledgeble that us that it would be easy to fool us. The next question would be *if* God would lie to us. We don't know that because we don't know what his motives are. We don't know his motives for sure because he *could* lie to us. We have to conclude that god *might* lie to us. If god *might* lie to us, is there any way to verify is he is lying? No, he is powerfull and or knowledgeable to fool us. So really, all we can kow is that God exists. He might be lying about everything else. Does this realization change how we behave toward him? No. Whatever he tells us to do, he wants us to do for one reason or another (wh don't know the motives). If someone so much more powerfull and or knowledgeable than you tells you what to do, it's best to do it. The conclusion? Do what god says anyway because he can kick your ass.

Not just that.

If you believe that Satan exists, there's no way to prove that all of modern religion (dead sea scrolls and the whole lot) is based on his lies! All the christians, jews, and muslims could be worshiping Satan's lies.

[tinybear]

The greatest trick Satan ever pulled was to convince everyone he doesn't exist.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus Because this discussion s is about a certain trait of god, it is pointless to debate that god dosent exist in this thread. That is assumed here. I am not looking for a "sympathetec opinion", just one that is at least open to discussing the topic of the thread - which you are not.

What in the world makes you think I am not open to discussion? There is a difference between agreeing with your every word and having a discussion.

Starboy

[Prometheus]

Mainly because you normally can't discuss religion without calling everyone a liar.

But hey, suprise me! I've been wrong enough times before. I look forward to being pleasently suprised to see you debate the nature of God, without sidetracking the debate into atheist rantings :)

[xm.bretton]

well if God is all powerful, why would he need to lie? when people lie it's usually for a purpose. if you could create/destroy anything and everything revolves around you, why lie?

I could say "I own a bmw" to try and impress you. or I could tell you "I didn't do it" so as not to be held accountable. but if I invented right and wrong and I created all matter then what reason do I have to lie?

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus Mainly because you normally can't discuss religion without calling everyone a liar. But hey, suprise me! I've been wrong enough times before. I look forward to being pleasently suprised to see you debate the nature of God, without sidetracking the debate into atheist rantings :)

Stop being so dishonest. I was very specific. I called supernaturalist dishonest. If you have no rational response to my claims and argument then rather then cast aspersions or lie about what I claimed you could just shut up.

Starboy

[Prometheus]

Quote by: Starboy Stop being so dishonest. I was very specific. I called supernaturalist dishonest. If you have no rational response to my claims and argument then rather then cast aspersions or lie about what I claimed you could just shut up. Starboy

My responce to your claims of religoin being dishonest will be made in the appropriate thread. I wish you would demonstrate the same coutesy instead of hijacking this thead with your same old argument that you assail us with in every other forum mentioning god.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus My responce to your claims of religoin being dishonest will be made in the appropriate thread. I wish you would demonstrate the same coutesy instead of hijacking this thead with your same old argument that you assail us with in every other forum mentioning god.

I see your point. But in my defense I am forced to repeat it over and over because for whatever reason you have not posted anything that even remotely indicates that you comprehend it.

Starboy

[jeffl]

Quote by: Prometheus Yah, but if god is so powerful, then you might not want to tell him to screw off.

That's what you said:

Quote by: Prometheus The conclusion? Do what god says anyway because he can kick your ass.

Shall i just repeat myself?

My point is; i don't care how powerful someone is, or how likely they are to kick my ass. If they are going to lie to me, they can screw off. They might force me to comply, they might not; i suppose it depends on how it might go down. They will know i don't respect their perspective.

[jeffl]

Quote by: tinybear Sometimes God can tell us some white lies, can't He? I mean you guys don't really believe the stuff about the apple and how eating it would bring disease, suffering...etc, do you?

I'm an inverted literalist; i think there is a perspective from which the stories are true. If you're talking about the fruit of the tree of good and evil, i can imagine a perspective from which things might look that way.

And, if my memory seves me right, He lied to Abraham. He told Abraham he wanted a human sacrifice; his only son no less!

Good point. I would argue that perhaps God thought of Abraham as self; and He did sacrifice his son. Maybe:)

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: tinybear And, if my memory seves me right, He lied to Abraham. He told Abraham he wanted a human sacrifice; his only son no less!

I'm fairly sure God simply told him to go and do it, not that he actually wanted him to. God is pretty slick with the wording it seems.

[Aaron Spicka]

God, the one I believe in, is perfect as in all knowing opmnipitant, opmnipresent, and most of all sinless. If would choose to "fool us" that would be a lie which condratics him which would make him unperfect. Why do those who believe in god try and fathom the one who created life? We stuggle to explain exactly what life is so how can we attempt to figure him out? We need to except that there is so much that we don't know and won't ever know that he does.

[James]

If God would lie to us... what's the point? Think about it. Even one sin makes you imperfect, and therefore evil even by default. How would evil rule? Evil is hatred and malice and would not create life... whoa, mental overload.

I'm gonna save myself the headache and quit now. One truth or falsity leads to a million more to be decided...