MORALLY WRONG: assisted suicides

[FIFI]

Now, to spring off of TinyBears thread, it sound like California (Oregon just debated it again!) is deciding on assisted suicide. Is it morally wrong? what safeguards and qualifications should there be??

I believe that those suffering from advanced stages / and / or incurible diseases should have the right of when, where and how they choose to die. Death with dignity is the slogan I hear most often. But would 'God" punish a men dying from cancer for choosing to end it without Chemo? or the woman with HIV/AIDS choosing to stop the battle after the doctors tell her there is nothing to do but live and wait??


What do you believe???

[Prometheus]

So we switch from legality to morality?

Please no one come in here spouting off about how there is no morality etc. etc. We are discusing morality so we assume it exists.

My religion (mormon) does not take an absolute stance on suicide. Though it is definitely considered bad, we do not beleive that it nescessarily sends you to hell. It is for god to decide, not men. God is mercifull, and will probably understand if there was a good reason you killed yourself.

If I killed myself because my girlfriend dumped me, yes, I would consider it wrong. I don't think it would be wrong to kill myself if I was about ot be tortured for the location of the rebel base, or if I was 60 years old suffering from cancer.

[FIFI]

Yes, but what about those who claim that if one person can recieve assisted sucide, why cannot all? If someone with cancer gets to choose, why not someone tired of living in general? I bet the needle is more pleasent then the other choices for suicide. Besides, many claim that neither doctor nor patient can decide, and that if they recieve some disease, then they should die from it, like intended, not chose the easy way out.

[Prometheus]

FIFI Yes, but what about those who claim that if one person can recieve assisted sucide, why cannot all?

Well since it's a moral issue, people can claim whatever they want. It's all a matter of oersonal beleif.

If you are atheistm then you can do whatever the hell you want.

If you are religious, then it may be dictated by a formalized doctorine.

With me it's just a matter of what I would feel comfortable justifying to god when he looks at my life. But I'm not too worried about having to deal with that - just look at my signiture.

[FIFI]

*laugh* I do like that sinature by the way. Does it specifically say anywhere in the LDS bibles that suicide is wrong? or is it more of a interpretation?

[Prometheus]

It is not stated in the bible (which we use too), or the Book of Mormon (The mormon "bible").

That is why it is not a hard and fast point of doctorine. Many religious leaders have speculated, but we have no direct word on it. That's what you have a concience for.

[G. Adams]

My religion (heathenry) doesn't ahve an official position (not really possible for a neo-pagan) but I would say it informs that, morally, we should sympathise those who can't handle it any longer, while applauding those who continue to struggle onwards.

[FIFI]

Nicely put!

[Sonart]

I think assisted suicide, as responsibly envisioned by Oregon and now California, is not only the right thing to do but a deeply moral thing to do. Modern medicine has accomplished some miraculous abilities to cure and save life, but in the process it has also accomplished an ability to keep life going - in some cases - far beyond what is compassionate. A physician swears to do no harm, but when a patient is already harmed beyond all remedy and continued clinical life is simply a descent into suffering and indignity, isn't it doing harm to deny relief from that suffering and indignity?

We are all going to die. When the fact of death is imminent, what harm is there to choose to reduce the suffering of it. After all, even Pope John Paul chose the manner of his own death, refusing to be admitted to a hospital that may have extended his life.

.

[tusaki]

firstly, I think people who want to die and objectively don't have any future left (ok, debable, but lets assume people who are in an advanced state of a terminal disease) should have the opportunity to "let go" when they wish to.

I applaud these statements:
"Please no one come in here spouting off about how there is no morality etc. etc. We are discusing morality so we assume it exists."

"we should sympathize those who can't handle it any longer, while applauding those who continue to struggle onwards."

[Rave7pt0]

There are really two issues here:

Should we legalize it?

I think the answer is yes -- people should be able to choose what to do with their lives.

Can we legalize it?

I'd say no, because there's no way of systematically protecting people from being killed under this kind of law.

[TheColdTruth]

People have the right to commit suicide. People have the right to smoke tobacco, drink themselves to death, overdose on drugs, and blow their brains out. Anything saying different is someone trying to take full responsibility for someone else's life, which is not only impossible, but horribly impractical.

[tinybear]

I think there is too much concern about whether we open the floodgates if we legalize suicide. Human beings have a natural tendency to want to continue living. Those who lose the desire to live are those in the most extreme state of pain and/or despair. This small minority of people should be given the right to end it.

By the way, as we're on the topic, is it Christian teaching that if you commit suicide, you go to hell?

[tman_ndsu08]

I'll raise this point again as I did on the other thread.


We're not debating the right for anyone to end their own life how they choose. No one will stop you from pulling the trigger right now. Nor will anyone else get in any legal trouble from your suicide.



The debate is: should someone else be allowed to kill you at your will?

If the answer is yes, we're opening the flood gates legally for killers. What's to stop someone from simply saying "uhh...yeah...he wanted me to kill him!".

[tinybear]

A consent form to be signed and witnessed? Or if the person is not able to sign, an indication of consent in front of two or more witnesses?

[tman_ndsu08]

Here's a case for you, assuming that assisted suicide is legalized.

A very rich man is being kept alive by machines but unconscious. The doctors are keeping him alive because there is still a chance he could come back.

His daughter, who is the sole inheritor of his estate has her boyfriend slip some drugs into the man's IV so that he dies.


However, in that man's will is his disire to be assisted in suicide if he is in an unconscious state being kept alive on machines.


Legally, what the boyfriend did isn't murder since it was in the man's will. But we all know that the daughter hired her bf to kill him so she could get the inheritance.


What do you say to this? I think if AS is legalized, you could potentially be seeing this type of thing happen often.

[tinybear]

Yeah, so? What's wrong? The man gets what he wants and his daughter gets what she wants. What's the problem?

[fedfem]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Here's a case for you, assuming that assisted suicide is legalized. A very rich man is being kept alive by machines but unconscious. The doctors are keeping him alive because there is still a chance he could come back. His daughter, who is the sole inheritor of his estate has her boyfriend slip some drugs into the man's IV so that he dies. However, in that man's will is his disire to be assisted in suicide if he is in an unconscious state being kept alive on machines. Legally, what the boyfriend did isn't murder since it was in the man's will. But we all know that the daughter hired her bf to kill him so she could get the inheritance. What do you say to this? I think if AS is legalized, you could potentially be seeing this type of thing happen often.

Well you have many false scenarios set up here. First of all, it is not suicide if the person is unconscious. If the person had that request in their will, the plug would just be pulled or not implemented in the first place.(DNR) legally. That is not considered suicide since the person is dead without artificial means to stay alive. The decision to remove life support if not documented goes to the next of kin legally.

Legally, the boyfriend murdered himunder your scenario.(why not just pull the plug?)

Assisted suicide by a physician is when the person in question has signed a consent.