Evolutionary Need for Religion

[FIFI]

Yes, but I have never seen a (wo)men fight for soap the way they will over there God(s).

[Capitalist Pig]

Quote by: FIFI Yes, but I have never seen a (wo)men fight for soap the way they will over there God(s).

Neither have I seen anyone fight for soap the way they would over their land, or whatever they perceive themselves to possess a natural born right to.

[FIFI]

*laugh* soap was just a joking and trivial example, I meant land, food, water (etc)
There are many out their dedicated to the church enough to fight to the death...yet I don't know if people would die over their house, if they had the choice to move.

[Prometheus]

Sonart I think nature finds it beneficial to have a few unbiased observers of nature within the ranks.

So there are the deluded masses, who have to be deluded for their own good, and the intellegent few who see it all objectively? Sucks for most of us. I guess that explains the smug, asshole nature that most atheists display

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus I guess that explains the smug, asshole nature that most atheists display

We try but nobody does it better than theists.

Starboy

[Prometheus]

zing!

[Sonart]

Quote by: Prometheus So there are the deluded masses, who have to be deluded for their own good, and the intellegent few who see it all objectively? Sucks for most of us. I guess that explains the smug, asshole nature that most atheists display

I suspect no more than the smug, asshole nature of people who seem an abundance of drive combined with natural leadership abilities, or drive combined with natural business sense, or drive combined with natural athletic ability. Smugness doesn't come from having gifts, it comes from thinking your better than others because of it.

And I didn't say that pure intelligence equals atheism, considering the evidence to the contrary. However, considering that something like 80% of scientists don't seem to believe in God, it strikes me that a certain type of academic, inquisitive intelligence may.

And I daresay the smug, asshole nature of atheists doesn't even come near the smugness, arrogance and superiority shown by the Christians who condemn them.

.

[Capitalist Pig]

Quote by: FIFI *laugh* soap was just a joking and trivial example, I meant land, food, water (etc) There are many out their dedicated to the church enough to fight to the death...yet I don't know if people would die over their house, if they had the choice to move.

Perhaps they don't want to move. Perhaps their family or their cultural society has existed on the land for ages, and because of a strong tradition, they view themselves as having a natural right to their territory. It's where they call home. Is security and stability not also a basic human drive?

If anything, I would think wars, fought out of necessity, would be far more intense, and far more righteous than one fought for a political or a religious agenda. This is, of course, purely speculative.

[Prometheus]

Sonart And I daresay the smug, asshole nature of atheists doesn't even come near the smugness, arrogance and superiority shown by the Christians who condemn them.

Any christian who goes around feeling they are better than a non-beleiver is not living their own purported beliefs. As any ideology (atheism included), christianity has it's followers who care, not for the ideology itself, but for the self-importance it gives them.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Prometheus Any christian who goes around feeling they are better than a non-beleiver is not living their own purported beliefs. As any ideology (atheism included), christianity has it's followers who care, not for the ideology itself, but for the self-importance it gives them.

Yada, yada, yada. As if you or any other Christian on the planet has any idea at all if they are doing anything right by Jesus or God. It would be one thing if there was a god certified "true Christian" detector that you could get from your local shaman or high preist but there is none. Nobody knows who is the "true Christian" least of all you. That is if you have any honesty in you at all. The best any Christian has is just a hope and it is not all the much of a hope since it is only based on faith.

Starboy

[Prometheus]

It would be one thing if there was a god certified "true Christian" detector that you could get from your local shaman or high preist but there is none

You are wrong biatch! Why else do you think Jesus gave us George W. Bush?!

[belverron]

Quote by: Prometheus You are wrong biatch! Why else do you think Jesus gave us George W. Bush?!

Just kill me now, Prometheus.

[belverron]

Quote by: FIFI *laugh* soap was just a joking and trivial example, I meant land, food, water (etc) There are many out their dedicated to the church enough to fight to the death...yet I don't know if people would die over their house, if they had the choice to move.

Aren't the Palestinians fighting primarily for their land/home? Correct me if I'm wrong; I have little background on that conflict.

[Sonart]

Quote by: Prometheus Any christian who goes around feeling they are better than a non-beleiver is not living their own purported beliefs.

I suspect that includes the majority of Christians. Certainly those who call themselves fundamentalists and most who profess their Christianity on these boards.

Quote by: belverron Just kill me now, Prometheus.

LOL!! Amen, belverron.

.

[rez]

Quote by: ericsp23 There is also the possibility that, while religion my have come about as a result of evolution, we have continued to evolve beyond the need for it. I read a book many years ago called The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes (it sounds intimidating but it is a fairly accessible read, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846) that seems to draw this conclusion. Jaynes' theory is that about 4000 years ago the human species went through a major evolutionary change which resulted in the self awareness that we associate with consciousness. Before this, our brains were structured differently, and the result was humans did not have a well developed sense of self. Instead of doing things out of self-interest, people did the things that they needed to do to survive individually and collectively out of a sense of religious obedience to the gods, which to them were very real. Mystical revelations and visions were fairly common, and Jaynes even hypothesizes that schizophrenia is a genetic throwback to this era. I know it sounds kind of out there, and I was skeptical at first, but he provides a lot of evidence to support his theory and makes quite a convincing case in my opinion. The relevance to this discussion is that, while religion may have evolved as a way to help primitive human beings survive by making sure that the things that needed to be done got done, we have evolved beyond this need by becoming more self aware. Now, I'm not saying that religion has become irrelevant, because it has evolved along with human beings, but I do think that its evolutionary reason for existance is no longer relevant.

I feel scared and enlightened....you should start a thread about this subject

[jeffl]

Quote by: GWilikers Since I regard religion as another political system or vice versa, it would seem that regardless of the argument over evolution versus creation, both religion and politics (entwined) serve a purpose to most people. It can have positive and/or negative effects.

I agree with this; using 'religion' as it is understood here. I think religion came to be the way it is now because of the secret groups. They've use religion to political ends, for the most part; almost neutering it. Almost. Look, no offense to anyone who happens to be a mason or a knight of columbus or anything like that; i firmly belive most people are good people. It's the secrecy that creates the damaging dynamic.

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 The purpose of religion is to explain the unknown.

This is how i understand religion as it should present to the people; this is not how 'religion' is understood here. Religion came to be the way it evolved originally because, while sitting around the fire at night, ancient man also had the stars. Astronomy led to a stable calander; and hence the real evolutionary benifit of religion, the search for hidden truth; which happens to be what the brain does. This also explains why a 'philosophy and religion' forum makes sense; even if you all don't seem to know what to do with it.

[jeffl]

Quote by: ericsp23 I read a book many years ago called The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes (it sounds intimidating but it is a fairly accessible read, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846) that seems to draw this conclusion. Jaynes' theory is that about 4000 years ago the human species went through a major evolutionary change which resulted in the self awareness that we associate with consciousness. Before this, our brains were structured differently, and the result was humans did not have a well developed sense of self. Instead of doing things out of self-interest, people did the things that they needed to do to survive individually and collectively out of a sense of religious obedience to the gods, which to them were very real. Mystical revelations and visions were fairly common, and Jaynes even hypothesizes that schizophrenia is a genetic throwback to this era.

I agree with all of this(i haven't read the book), except for the stuff about schizophrenia; it's not a 'genetic throwback,' it's a current cultural defficiency. People should be able to trust other members of their community; a little mistrust and a sensitive person, who might otherwise be productive to the point of salvation, might just loose it.

[Agent007]

Quote by: Dr. Pundit Give me one religion that requires "drugs, sex, and crime." A religion easily applies a direction for a person; a direction that would lead him or her to personal success. The person must follow this provided code or he or she would be unhappy; a paradigm of not following the code is participating in the thread "The Most Beautiful Women of All Time." Is this why you are atheist, Mr. Starboy? Are you atheist so that you can indulge in these unethical pleasures? Are you atheist because you believe that by being so, there is no deity in your way to the "stars" and that you can achieve greater things without religion? Indeed, Mr. Starboy, you are being a hypocrite. Indeed, Mr. Starboy, you are being dishonest. Even the secular points of mankind frown on unethicality in looking at pornography and doing narcotics.

This quote sums up to an answer to your question.

[Samildanach]

There is also the possibility that, while religion my have come about as a result of evolution, we have continued to evolve beyond the need for it.

This is what I believe which is probably why the overall percentage of athiests are on the increase.
Humanists are starting to spring up everywhere as well. The churches power is declining because people are not as easily fooled these days especially with the internet here where all sides of an argument can be readily accessed.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Samildanach This is what I believe which is probably why the overall percentage of athiests are on the increase. Humanists are starting to spring up everywhere as well. The churches power is declining because people are not as easily fooled these days especially with the internet here where all sides of an argument can be readily accessed.

Plus, there's the obvious sign of religious moral decay in radical Islam and in the Catholic church molestation stuff.

Grandpa h.