Is The United States Of America A Christian Nation And Founded As One?

[tinybear]

Well, is it? Here are two opposing views:

http://www.afn.org/~govern/Christian_Nation.html (Yes)

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm (No)

But here's my question: How come we have the Christmas holidays and the Easter Holidays (both major holidays in the United States), but no holiday For Muhammad's birthday or Buddha's birthday or holidays in honor of the Hindu Gods?

[Starboy]

Interesting thing about that. It is the case that prior and after the establishment of the US government the majority of people in the US were Christians. What is little known is that the Freemasons stole the country from the Christians. If the Christians had their way we would have a state religion and it would be a crime in some states to be a Baptist or whatever. It was that kind of religious bullshit that made many of the more intelligent people of the age deists and followers of the Enlightenment. Just about all of the founding fathers thought that organized religion was the bane of mankind. This included most forms of Christianity. In fact most of the presidents prior to Wilson were considered to be atheists by many. But even so most of the people were still Christians and they still wanted to observe their religious holidays.

Starboy

[cheesenuggett]

if anthing i believe we are a christian dominant nation...

but from what ive been hearing around my school alot of kids are becoming more skeptic to their faith(like me) and going athiest or agnostic...

[Sonart]

Quote by: tinybear But here's my question: How come we have the Christmas holidays and the Easter Holidays (both major holidays in the United States), but no holiday For Muhammad's birthday or Buddha's birthday or holidays in honor of the Hindu Gods?

Tradition, tinybear. Just as, up until 50 years ago, it was an accepted tradition in this country that colored people were inferior and could be discriminated against... by law. Up until 30 years ago it was tradition that women could be discrminated against... by law.

It wasn't so long ago that Asians -- Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, etc. -- were considered, by tradition, to be heathens and could be legally discriminated against. The Chinese Exlusion Act expressly forbid imigration by Chinese, and their exclusion spurred later movements for immigration restriction against other "undesirable" groups such as Middle Easterners, Hindu and East Indians, and the Japanese. The Chinese themselves remained ineligible for citizenship until 1943.

Just because something is traditional, tinybear, doesn't make it right. Our nation's motto is not "In God We Trust". Our motto is found on the Great Seal of the United States... "E Pluribus Unum". Out of Many, One. Out of many states, one state. Out of many nationalities, one Nation. Out of many races, one People. And out of many religions, an acceptance for all and a preference for none.

Unlike most nations, which originated out of ethnic or religious solidarity, our nation was founded specifically on the concept of democratic pluralism... that all men were created equal and are free to think, speak and worship as they see fit, without dominance by the government or the majority.

Alas, because of accepted traditions, America has fallen short on much of that promise. Since the civil rights movement, however, Americans have been made increasingly aware of those short-comings. So yes, by tradition, Christmas and Easter held sway, because by tradition, anyone outside the Christian hegemony was not considered to really be Americans.

As cheesenuggett put it, we may be a Christian Majority nation. By law and design, however, we a not a "Christian Nation".

.

[Sonart]

And while we're on the subject, Easter is not a National Holiday... it is simply observed by our majority Christians, just as Passover, Ramadan, Diwali, Boy's Day and Chinese New Year are observed by others.

And Christmas is a real joke, since it's likely that Jesus was born in July. Christmas is more accurately a celebration of the Winter Solstice, an important observance by pagan Europeans and much of the 'pagan' world. Christians simply usurped the holiday as Christmas in order to entice pagan Europeans to convert.

Heck, where do you think Christmas trees, mistletoe and yuletide came from?


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[fedfem]

Quote by: tinybear Well, is it? Here are two opposing views: http://www.afn.org/~govern/Christian_Nation.html (Yes) http://www.nobeliefs.com/Tripoli.htm (No) But here's my question: How come we have the Christmas holidays and the Easter Holidays (both major holidays in the United States), but no holiday For Muhammad's birthday or Buddha's birthday or holidays in honor of the Hindu Gods?

Neither was a holiday at the founding. It started with a few southern states declaring state holidays with Alabama in 1936. Lousianna, Arkansas followed and so on and so on.

http://hoover.archives.gov/exhibits/...mas/index.html

It would be better to say we are a European nation since that is what determined what holidays gained popularity. If the country had been populated by mostly Arabs or Asians then perhaps we would be celebrating days in their honor nationally as well.

[Dadoo]

tb-

In my last read (ripping!!), -just finished the book moments ago, and felt the pertinence to your question was astounding. A must read on this subject, and please check out more by the same author. She's a poet, a scientist, historian and philosopher.

Jennifer Michael Hecht Ph D.
"Doubt: A History"

OR

Conduit Magazine #15 "The Light and Shadow of Doubt"
www.conduit.org This is a very amazing quarterly of insightful writing for and
by people "with minds on fire".

Best of luck and don't be dismayed. The US was a haven for religious misfits and the intolerables of the Old World. They killed the natives, held slaves, warred constantly and didn't institute a Bill of Rights for quite.. awhile. (a-hem) and, only after much consternation to say the least, by the people "for the people", be they the Godless or firm believers. In the end, we are still just a wily bunch. Christians however, we are not and never were. Who tells a fruit by a tree without ever being mistaken? Have a taste, and be sure for once.
The convoluted translations of Christ's teachings we are engraining in our children's hearts and minds will degrade into a form that someday will be intolerable to it's members. The true essences are clear and straightforward. Because of this, everything will change. It is a good tale, indeed.
we generally tell a tree by it's fruit. Masquerade is fun and quite effective for those deemed "free to roam about the cabin".. morally, cerebrally.
Founding fathers and leaders, political and philosophical conceptualizers are utilizing the contrast between the common Gross mind and the rare Subtle mind.
The common people are at a loss to sense nuance and paradox. In this way, they may be steered in a format that appears to value individual choice, but again only to the generally subdued, dumbed-down Gross mind of the governed population.
However, everything changes, and we hope to avoid simple oscillation of the hemispheres of polemics. (Again? And Again?)
Back and forth we've come only full circle.
When this becomes an intolerable state of being we will in unison, seek linearity, growth and new meanings for old terms. As we have time and again.
I call this inevitablity, or maturation.

take care, and check out the book(s)!
Dadoo

[Cephus]

We are not a Christian nation, our founding fathers specifically said we were not. We've had the concept of "separation of church and state" since the beginning, even though the religious right seems to think that doesn't apply to them under our current administration.

Culture and tradition aside, that doesn't mean squat to our government. We should not permit religion to interfere with the running of the country. Now if only we can tell the idiot in office that.

[Dadoo]

C- I quite agree.

Yet, show me any man who does not bring the same values to the church as to the ballot box, and I'd see a either a hypocrite or a liar.
Can we separate these concepts?
Does having it "written" make it any less paradoxical, nary achievable?

Indeed, it seems more like a call for purer Hypocricy.
Why, by jove, we're onto something!

[Sonart]

Quote by: Dadoo Yet, show me any man who does not bring the same values to the church as to the ballot box, and I'd see a either a hypocrite or a liar. Can we separate these concepts? Does having it "written" make it any less paradoxical, nary achievable?

Why not achievable? I don't know how old you are, Dadoo, but when I was a boy, the idea that we'd have two consecutive "negro" Secretaries of State was laughable. Idealists could say, yeah, why not, but the reality among most Americans was that it was preposterous, unthinkable. As was the idea of having a woman as a legitimate, non-token, non-women's agenda possibility as President of the United States.

Values can evolve.

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[moustache]

Quote by: Sonart Values can evolve

which church are you talking about here? orthodox christianity for example has refused to change its values since its beggining.

[fedfem]

Well, christians still argue what sects are really christian.

No current sect is the same since its beginning. They are all different and continue to change doctrine, dogma, beliefs, etc.

[Starboy]

Quote by: moustache which church are you talking about here? orthodox christianity for example has refused to change its values since its beggining.

Which orthodox Christianity are you talking about? The Gnostics or the Catholics or the Greek Orthodox or Russian or Ukrainian Orthodox? It is not as if at any time in the history of Christianity there was one sect. Even at the very beginning there were twelve apostles and twelve different takes on the matter. And then of course there is that niggling problem that all Christians have in that there was no such thing as a Christian until Saul.

Starboy

[moustache]

Quote by: Starboy Which orthodox Christianity are you talking about?

sorry...I should have said Eastern Orthodox Christianity...as in Greeks, Russians, Ukranians....

I will talk about the Greek church specifically because that is my church, I am Greek Orthodox. Our faith has not "evolved" over time.

Quote by: fedfem No current sect is the same since its beginning. They are all different and continue to change doctrine, dogma, beliefs, etc.

This is not true for the Greek Orthodox church, we have refused to change our ideals/beliefs.

[fedfem]

Quote by: moustache sorry...I should have said Eastern Orthodox Christianity...as in Greeks, Russians, Ukranians.... I will talk about the Greek church specifically because that is my church, I am Greek Orthodox. Our faith has not "evolved" over time. This is not true for the Greek Orthodox church, we have refused to change our ideals/beliefs.

Well your mode of confession/penance has changed as well as the role of deaconess "since the beginning".(what do you consider the beginning?)

Also, there are differnences in opinion regarding the calendar it seems.

I will say one thing--they have refused to expand on what they call the "mysteries" thus unlike other denominations who tried to define things so narrowly, the Orthodox church aren't constantly having to change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern...e_Great_Schism

[MerlinsByte]

Christians do argue who is the holiest, I am an open theist and have been called everything from a Satanist (almost accurate) to a pagan sorta right. Satanist are not what I call the black circle boys (usually just a sexual cult), there is 12 major divisions of Satanism. Oh and atheists argue what constitutes is the real thing. What's the point here, It seems to me if you are happy with your paradigm then why care what others think unless they are in your face?

mb

[moustache]

Quote by: fedfem Also, there are differnences in opinion regarding the calendar it seems.

exactly...that is a something that has not changed.

of course there are going to be some minor changes...but have we changed ideals or beliefs? no

The Eastern Orthodox Church has experienced no Reformation that transformed the theological foundation of the faith.

Quote by: fedfem the Orthodox church aren't constantly having to change.

ah, so you agree that the orthodox church has changed very little since its beggening?

[fedfem]

Quote by: moustache exactly...that is a something that has not changed. of course there are going to be some minor changes...but have we changed ideals or beliefs? no The Eastern Orthodox Church has experienced no Reformation that transformed the theological foundation of the faith. ah, so you agree that the orthodox church has changed very little since its beggening?

As I asked before, what do you consider the beginning?

No matter your answer, I do agree compared to the other sects/denominations it does seem the most true to its establishment.

[moustache]

one of the main reasons I am Orthodox over catholic,or protestant, or any other christian religion, is because it "has remained so true to its establishment" as you put it. and another of the main reasons being it was the first form of christianity.

and to answer your question:

I believe the beginning of christianity was at the pentacost.

[Sonart]

Quote by: Moustache which church are you talking about here? orthodox christianity for example has refused to change its values since its beggining.

Thank you for demonstrating that most insidious of religious falsehoods, that morality and values come from religion alone. As incredible as it may seem, I am an atheist, and I have deeply held moral values, thank you very much.

If you've ever studied anthropology, you'll be surprised to find that most societal mores spring from the needs of any particular society, and their religious values spring from those needs. As it turns out, the needs of most human societies are fairly consistant with the rest, thus universal admonitions not to murder, lie, steal, cheat, destabilize families through adultery, etc. It's when you get to the little details that things get iffy. Admonitions against eating pork or cutting beards may have served a useful purpose at some point, but not today. Slavery would be a big 'little detail' that has been revisited with time. And, of course, some societies adjust their values to changing times better than others.

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