Girl Prohibited From Singing Religious Song

[tusaki]

Quote by: Starboy In principle I agree with you but if I found myself in similar situation I would just sing a different song. That is of course if my intent was not to make a "Christian" point. Starboy

Yes, I would too, but that is a pragmatic solution to a situation which shouldn't be there in the first place.

[CallousGiant]

Quote by: Starboy In principle I agree with you but if I found myself in similar situation I would just sing a different song. That is of course if my intent was not to make a "Christian" point. Starboy

Why does she have to be the one to change her decision and not the school changing theirs? What right do they have that she doesn't? The school is trying to make a point, she is trying to make a point. Why does she have to be the one to back down?

[Starboy]

Quote by: tinybear Hey how about "He's Got The Whole World In His Hands"? Does anybody think we should ban that song in schools?

In principle it is fine with me as long as no one objects to it. The Christians have already set the standard. If they object to it then it doesn't happen. Fine then, if non-Christians object to it then it also doesn't happen. There is no reason why a Christian objection should be better than anyone else’s objection. It used to be that is was good enough for them to get up and leave if they don't like it but not anymore. They must stop others but then they complain when they get the same treatment. These fucking Christians are doing it everywhere. No one is forcing them to marry the same sex but god damn we must now have a constitutional amendment that prohibits if for everyone. No one is forcing them to get an abortion but heaven forbid that anyone else can get one. They see no problem with tax dollars going to faith based initiatives but no tax dollars for sex education. They are a bunch of hypocrites. They cry the loudest and make the most shit of everyone. Now they get some of it back and it is booo hooo with crocodile tears. They make me sick.

Starboy

[tinybear]

So no Christmas carols for you, eh, Starboy?

[CallousGiant]

Quote by: Starboy In principle it is fine with me as long as no one objects to it. The Christians have already set the standard. If they object to it then it doesn't happen. Fine then, if non-Christians object to it then it also doesn't happen. There is no reason why a Christian objection should be better than anyone else’s objection. It used to be that is was good enough for them to get up and leave if they don't like it but not anymore. They must stop others but then they complain when they get the same treatment. These fucking Christians are doing it everywhere. No one is forcing them to marry the same sex but god damn we must now have a constitutional amendment that prohibits if for everyone. No one is forcing them to get an abortion but heaven forbid that anyone else can get one. They see no problem with tax dollars going to faith based initiatives but no tax dollars for sex education. They are a bunch of hypocrites. They cry the loudest and make the most shit of everyone. Now they get some of it back and it is booo hooo with crocodile tears. They make me sick. Starboy

Again your simply stereotyping an entire group on the behavior of a few individuals. I live in a very protestant area, and we have a yearly exchange with a catholic church in Germany. For the two religions it is very hard to accept each other, the way the services are different, the different beliefs, but these people put their differences behind them and try to get along.

Everyone always wants more. This minority of christians want more rights and more of their opinions to be taken into account, but the same happens everywhere else. Workers go on strike to get higher wages, and when they get them they think 'perhaps I could get just a little bit more if I try again.' Its human nature, and I'm sure given the opportunity to get more, if it meant pressing your views on someone else, you would do the same.

[Starboy]

Quote by: CallousGiant Why does she have to be the one to change her decision and not the school changing theirs? What right do they have that she doesn't? The school is trying to make a point, she is trying to make a point. Why does she have to be the one to back down?

Could it be that the school is only reacting to the environment that the Christians have created for themselves? If the Christians reserve the right to object to evolution, abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research and on and on then why can't others object to the Ten Commandments in public places, tax supported faith based initiatives, overt endorsement of the Christian religion in tax supported places? Why isn't turn about fair play? Why must everyone bend to their wishes? Isn't it enough that you are allowed to operate your churches and religious organizations without paying taxes? Don't you have enough churches? Must it be in a public building?

Starboy

[tusaki]

Star does have a point. However, the things you describe (same sex marriage, abortion, sex education) are a key part of their religion. I can understand, from their point of view, that inaction would be sinful. Yes, I know, this creates an unsolvable situation and a lingering source of unrest and troubles. And this is basically the situation we have today.

[CallousGiant]

Quote by: Starboy Could it be that the school is only reacting to the environment that the Christians have created for themselves? If the Christians reserve the right to object to evolution, abortion, gay marriage, stem cell research and on and on then why can't others object to the Ten Commandments in public places, tax supported faith based initiatives, overt endorsement of the Christian religion in tax supported places? Why isn't turn about fair play? Why must everyone bend to their wishes? Isn't it enough that you are allowed to operate your churches and religious organizations without paying taxes? Don't you have enough churches? Must it be in a public building? Starboy

They have the right to object, not act. The school is acting, not objecting. Some christians do act, and they shouldn't in most cases, but they are just a minority of christians, and christians should not be discriminated against, even if some do act inappropriately. Two wrongs don't make a right, and the school should know that.

[Starboy]

Quote by: CallousGiant Again your simply stereotyping an entire group on the behavior of a few individuals. I live in a very protestant area, and we have a yearly exchange with a catholic church in Germany. For the two religions it is very hard to accept each other, the way the services are different, the different beliefs, but these people put their differences behind them and try to get along. Everyone always wants more. This minority of christians want more rights and more of their opinions to be taken into account, but the same happens everywhere else. Workers go on strike to get higher wages, and when they get them they think 'perhaps I could get just a little bit more if I try again.' Its human nature, and I'm sure given the opportunity to get more, if it meant pressing your views on someone else, you would do the same.

There you go again with your argument that just because "a few" individual behave atrociously that the rest are not culpable. You would have a point if it were only a "few" individuals.

Look it is all very simple. Christian have a right to hold their views and practice their own religion, they have no right to expect those that do not believe in their religion to care about it. It is not a matter of more rights. They have plenty of rights. It is a matter that they not only want to be able to pray (which they can do any time they want) they want it to be required that everyone else pray with them. This flies in the face of the values and principles that this country was founded on which was freedom and not fealty to god. If they respect freedom then they can profess as much fealty to god as they like but they have no right to expect everyone else to do so.

Starboy

[tinybear]

Let's consider a slightly different, yet similar, situation: Suppose a female Muslim student wants to wear a scarf/mask to school, would you say that the school should force her to remove it? Or say a Sikh boy wears his turban to school. Would you say the school should force him to remove it?

[Starboy]

Quote by: tusaki Star does have a point. However, the things you describe (same sex marriage, abortion, sex education) are a key part of their religion. I can understand, from their point of view, that inaction would be sinful. Yes, I know, this creates an unsolvable situation and a lingering source of unrest and troubles. And this is basically the situation we have today.

I do not have a problem with the Christians expressing their displeasure at those practices. What gets my dander up is when they decide that the way they will do it is by force of government. If their ideas have merit such a thing would not be necessary. All I see is a religion so bankrupt that force of law is their last resort.

Starboy

[CallousGiant]

I think people should be able to wear religious clothing (I'm afraid my school does not though) and each religion should be respected. In an area of prodominent christian religion, if christians had religious garments (I know they don't but if they did) it would probably be the case that the children would be able to wear these clothes, and perhaps even other religions could. It is only because the main religion does not have any religion clothing that other religions' clothing is banned.

[CallousGiant]

Quote by: Starboy I do not have a problem with the Christians expressing their displeasure at those practices. What gets my dander up is when they decide that the way they will do it is by force of government. If their ideas have merit such a thing would not be necessary. All I see is a religion so bankrupt that force of law is their last resort. Starboy

Why do you seem to think that every christian tries to force their views of campaign for more rights. I'm trying to tell you that it is in fact a small minority and so they should not be stereotypes and your the one thats having a go at me for being short sighted?

[tusaki]

Quote by: tinybear Let's consider a slightly different, yet similar, situation: Suppose a female Muslim student wants to wear a scarf/mask to school, would you say that the school should force her to remove it? Or say a Sikh boy wears his turban to school. Would you force him to remove it?

As the situation is in france? They should not be forced at all, unless the garbs they are wearing somehow prevents normal teacher-student interaction, as is the case with the full-body-covering clothes some wear (what was the name again...).

[tinybear]

Yes. I have the situation in France in mind. France has legislation forcing them to remove their religious garb in schools. Do you think it's right, folks?

[CallousGiant]

I agree with tusaki.

[tusaki]

Quote by: CallousGiant Why do you seem to think that every christian tries to force their views of campaign for more rights. I'm trying to tell you that it is in fact a small minority and so they should not be stereotypes and your the one thats having a go at me for being short sighted?

Well.. there are... some... examples of a christian agenda being persued at both the federal and local governments. So, Starboys allegations aren't entirely unfounded. If it is only a vocal minority, as you state, wouldn't that imply that such a minority currently has too much influence?

[Starboy]

Quote by: CallousGiant Why do you seem to think that every christian tries to force their views of campaign for more rights. I'm trying to tell you that it is in fact a small minority and so they should not be stereotypes and your the one thats having a go at me for being short sighted?

I suppose it is because I do not hear all that many Christians saying that the sentiments expressed by the so called extremists do not represent their views. What I see is a big silence. Most all Christians agree with their sentiments but may abhor their tactics. So what? If there were as many non-extremist Christians as you seem to be saying exist then what is happening today would not be happening. But just about every major Christian denomination has voiced some sort of support for every one of the extremist views. There is little to no denunciation of what is going on in the name of Christianity. Christians are complicit by their silence because it is not just people that call themselves Christians that are doing this they are doing it in the name of Christianity. And yet there is still silence. You are all not all that different from the Nazis. Sure only a few did it while the rest stood in silence.

Starboy

[CallousGiant]

Quote by: tusaki Well.. there are... some... examples of a christian agenda being persued at both the federal and local governments. So, Starboys allegations aren't entirely unfounded. If it is only a vocal minority, as you state, wouldn't that imply that such a minority currently has too much influence?

I'm not denying they don't exist, and I'm not condoning what they do, I just don't think it is right to generalise. I agree that christians should not push their views of exploit peoples views of them to gain power, but some do, and there is nothing I can do about that. I just have to remember that only a few do this....

[tinybear]

Come, come. All we're talking about here is a girl singing a harmless song in school.