How to Debate

[Runa216]

here is a little something I think you should all see. it's not entirely 100% pure, but it would do a lot of people good and make any forum (especially a debate forum such as this) a better place to be.


How To Debate

1: Be Calm and Polite

When engaging in a debate, always treat the opponent as an equal. Always apologize for faulty information, admit when you are wrong, and above all else, accept a compliment. If the opposing team is impressed with an argument you made, accept the compliment. A compliment by an opposing group is the highest of honours. And vice versa, if the opposing team makes a good argument, compliment them. It will make them pleased, possibly making the entire experience as a whole more pleasant and conflict free, or it could make them over-arrogant, something that any good debater can abuse.

2: Be Humble

When engaging in a debate, in no cases, do you ever get cocky. As stated in rule #1, arrogance can be exploited by a good debater. Under no circumstances do you ever claim to be a master debater, for satirical and humbling reasons. Never claim that you are incredibly intelligent, and therefore going to win. Even the most intelligent people make mistakes and can be wrong, and losing after saying this makes the humiliation worse. Always act as though the debate is for knowledge, try to gain knowledge, it will only strengthen you. Saying you have an IQ of 200 or that you are the top student in your state does nothing to prove your superiority. On the internet, anyone can claim such honors.

3: No Flames

Refer to the quote ‘He who strikes first admits their values have given out’. And on an online message board, insults are the equivalent of fists and weapons. When you resort to violence, or in this case, flames, it is really a way to admit that you are frustrated and have been presented a point that you cannot contend, and therefore you have lost. Many people succumb to this problem. Though in many debates, the opponent may appear to be ignorant, claiming so will only make you look like an equal fool for not enlightening them. A true debater can enlighten even the most ignorant of opponents, though it’s extremely hard when the opponent is ignoring all your points. (Usually this means they do not agree with you and are not considering these points valid, or so they say.)

4: Use Common Sense

Though facts are a very good, and often indisputable tool for debates, no debate is complete without some form of opinion or common sense thrown in. Without any form of opinion, we all become mindless machines and we lose our integrity. If you don’t agree with what you are debating, or do not feel the facts are valid, then the debate is likely to falter. Always remember, just because it’s true, doesn’t mean it’s right. Look at the law, people are getting away with things that they should be going to jail, because according to the justice system, he was not right to be convicted. The point? Without opinion, facts have no substance, so no matter what you debate, always give an explanation or an opinion of some sort. Many master debaters would tell you otherwise, but we all know that doesn’t work in the real world. Have some personality

5: Present New Points

One major problem with modern debaters is that they are so set in their ways, that they will try to repeat what they have said over and over again to drill it into your head. This may seem on the surface a sound method, but it just makes the perpetrator look like a fool. It makes them look ignorant, and it makes them look like they haven’t read all the previous material. Another problem is that people often bring up points that the opponent has already denounced or explained and debated against. If the opponent says that green is the best because blue sucks, then don’t respond claiming blue to be great without giving evidence or supporting arguments equally as against green as green had used against blue. Sometimes it would appear that you can use an argument that you used in the past to debate the new points. This is a toss up, in some situations, don’t, they’ve already lost. But in most cases, it’s okay to repeat as long as you relate it to the new material.

6: Look At All angles

No matter what the topic, unless you can somehow roleplay and look at it from the opponent’s point of view, you don’t stand a chance. If you just go in, propaganda blazing, then you make yourself look like a fool and you look ignorant. By looking at each side of an argument before making any assumption, you will look more knowledgeable and you will appear to have thought about the situation before choosing a side. If you can admit that the opponent has some good points, then you look humble and honest, and you look intelligent. Above all else, if you can see all sides of the argument, you can.....

7: ...Think Ahead

In any situation, you need to think three moves ahead of the opponent to win. If you can make arguments and see any holes, fill them up. If you see flaws to your arguments or you can see a point that the opponent might use to counter your argument, then you can state them and counter them again. Doing this pretty much dominates the argument. I’ve won many debates using this method. By nipping all the arguments in the bud and debating them all yourself, you own the competition and the audience will have to agree with you, because you made all the points and you gave the explanation, so they have to believe you. Mind you, this tactic is not foolproof, because you have to get all the points, if you miss one, then that is a proverbial chink in the armor that the competition can exploit. So, if you can look at all angles, make points and counterpoints yourself, and think three steps ahead, then you can crush nearly any opponent. It makes you look smarter, it makes it look as though you’ve actually thought about the situation in it’s entirety, and it makes people understand more.

Runa

[Paul]

How to Debate: It is very difficult to a debate on an idea with a self-righteous person, religious or otherwise.

For example; about a religious belief. On the Discussion Forms that I have had very little success in debate.

Success in a debate to me would be if your opponent would take your point of on a subject and vise versa, do the nessesary research and come to a debate. A good dedater should be able to take any subject, for or against and do well under the ethical rule of debate.

I have been on about eight Discussion Forms. The subject I like discussing is How can we (those that want to) create a society where love governs.

With christian, I'd like to discuss/debate on the differences between the Jesus of gospels and Saul/St.Paul's Jesus. As far as christian are concerned this subject is on debatable or even up for disscussion.

Also with christian, I'd like to debate my theory that is was Lucifer/Satan, as an angel of light, that came to Saul on the road to Damascus saying, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" The reaction that I get from the christian community is very negtive towards me to present the possibility that my theory may true. From a christian's point of view my theory is not for debate, subject closed!

May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and your deeds be accordingly

Peace be with you, Paul

[Runa216]

yeah, people so convinced of their own superiority are the worst, whether it be religious or otherwise.

to me, a successful debate is when I can convince the other side to see my side, understand it, and make a choice from there. whether they agree or not is not up to me, but I would feel far more comfortable knowing that they at least tried to see iot from all angles. that's the biggest thing for me. never, ever should you believe one thing without questioning it or seeing possible others.

questions are man's greatest too. always consider a possibility.

Runa

[Cephus]

It is pretty much impossible to debate with a theist because they simply cannot conceive of the possibility that they might be wrong. If you cannot debate the points of the debate openly and fairly and have both sides evaluate them, then it isn't a debate, it's a big waste of time.

[JamesMcBride]

"Under no circumstances do you ever claim to be a master debater"


LOL. I'm sure some people here are! LMAO!

[JamesMcBride]

Quote by: Cephus It is pretty much impossible to debate with a theist because they simply cannot conceive of the possibility that they might be wrong. If you cannot debate the points of the debate openly and fairly and have both sides evaluate them, then it isn't a debate, it's a big waste of time.

Religious debates are, by their very nature - always going to end in en-trenchment. A. Because no-one wants to be shown to be wrong on an issue of such importance (to some?!) and B. Because it's a matter of fundamental faith - not just an idea tossed up for discussion.

[ericsp23]

Good post. Unfortunately many people who participate in discussion forums such as this one are not really here to debate. They are here to push their own agenda, which is not open to any debate in their eyes.

[tinybear]

We're just here to rant and let out some steam. If this involves debating, then we'll go along with it. But pushing our agenda? Nah, how can we push any agenda on a discussion forum?

[ericsp23]

By constantly repeating the same things over and over again and refusing to honestly and objectively review one's point of view in light of other's input.

[tinybear]

You mean not changing our minds?

[ericsp23]

Not necessarily. True debate is about honing one's belief system by putting it up for criticism. If you find that you cannot logically defend your point of view, then you should go back and decide if it is something you really should be supporting. All too often, when a weakness in an argument is exposed, those making the argument will change the subject or resort to ad hominem attacks, or commit any number of other logical fallacies rather than honestly review their argument.
And even when a weakness is exposed, that doesn't mean one has to change their position compeletely. It could just mean that you need to stop using a particular argument to support your point of view.

And to head off the inevitable response, no, I am not always right, and I do not consider myself to be an expert debator. I try to debate in the way I've outlined above, but I'm sure there have been times when I have been guilty of these errors too.

[Runa216]

Exactly. so long as you can question your beliefs and still believe in them, then you are convinced that your beliefs are right, and I respect that. if you believe something without ever questioning it, you are blind.

Runa

[Paul]

I believe that most of us have some knowledge on how to conduct a debate or a discussion. Yes, their are topics of different religious beliefs, ethics and moralities. One thing I have found out, when come to different religious beliefs, history has showed us that one side would rather kill the other side instead of having a peacefull debate. Even now, You or I may be condemned to hell, or personally attacked verbally or physically for expressing a new discovery or a different point of view.

As Runa216 said, ["a successful debate is when I can convince the other side to see my side, understand it, and make a choice from there. whether they agree or not is not up to me"]

Ever since I was very young I asked, WHY!? Most of my 'whys', I don't have answers for but I still ask, but I have found a few new discoveries because I have asked myself WHY! 'Why' is it that an individual or a group of individuals would rather attack you or refuse to debate or discuss an issue at hand.

May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and your deeds be accordingly

Peace be with you, Paul

[Cephus]

Quote by: Runa216 Exactly. so long as you can question your beliefs and still believe in them, then you are convinced that your beliefs are right, and I respect that. if you believe something without ever questioning it, you are blind.

Absolutely, but there are far too many theists who simply cannot conceive of questioning their beliefs. They're right. So there. No amount of proof that they are wrong will change that.

Faith doesn't give you a license to ignore reality, sorry. I can't tell you how many times I've had theists claim that faith trumps everything else. Belief in Santa Claus doesn't make Santa exist, any more than it makes God exist.

[Runa216]

this is why I trust science over religion, they admit when they are wrong and are willing to move on.

as for debating, who here has a hard time debating properly? I mean, you all are intelligent individuals and know the unwritten rules, but it's hard to follow them. it's hard to not flame someone who appears ignorant, it's tempting to flash your IQ around, and no matter what, some people just won'd agree with you, which causes irritation. I know first hand.

so, who here has a hard time debating civilly?

Runa

[Paul]

I have had very little success in debates; about debating civilly I not sure, because that usually is noticed by the receiving person. The sensitivity of every individual is different, so what's civil to one person is not civil to another person. I work with people in the oil fields, and I like talking with people like you. I have grade 10, and I like talk with people that have a Ph.D in whatever field.

"debating civilly?" For example, A person makes a statement. I disagree and say why I disagree. Then I ask that person to proof to me that I am incorrect, and that person refused to answer my question, why? It's the audience that know best who's civil in a debate. Like any FORUM there is an audience.

May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and your deeds be accordingly

Peace be with you, Paul

[Runa216]

that is one thing I definitely agree on. Although I try my best to debate civilly, I forget more often then not, that others are generally far more sensitive than I. I am rather cold and emotionless for the most part, so when I debate, I think I am being uber polite, but others don't see it that way.

I try, really I do.

Runa

[Paul]

Why is it, that many religious (fundamentalist christians) people are not civil in debating an issue or a subject, instead they preferr to attack/condemn the person. Fundamentalist christians are not the only ones that would fits in this category.


May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and your deeds be accordingly

Peace be with you, Paul

[Starboy]

Quote by: Paul Why is it, that many religious (fundamentalist christians) people are not civil in debating an issue or a subject, instead they preferr to attack/condemn the person. Fundamentalist christians are not the only ones that would fits in this category. May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and your deeds be accordingly Peace be with you, Paul

It is unfortunate. The rise of fundamentalism is the fall of civility. But my daddy always said that you gotta fight fire with fire. Those that are civil will be treated civilly and those that are not will be treated uncivilly. It is just too dang bad that civility is not an intrinsic part of any form of Christianity. Who could ever consider the offer you can’t refuse as civilized? What do you expect from an act that is essentially the abandonment of reason?

Starboy

[Cephus]

Quote by: Paul Why is it, that many religious (fundamentalist christians) people are not civil in debating an issue or a subject, instead they preferr to attack/condemn the person. Fundamentalist christians are not the only ones that would fits in this category.

Because they aren't interested in debating? In a debate, both sides must consider the opposition fairly and, if evidence is presented to show that the other side is correct or your side is wrong, you must acknowledge this. Fundamentalist Christians (and most Christians, in fact) cannot conceive of the possibility that they could be wrong. No matter what evidence is presented, they must reject it because their faith is stronger than the facts.

It's unfortunate but true.