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castille · May 16, 2005, 09:35 am

Quote:

Quote by: G. Adams

But that is a different time, and a different world. We live in an interconnected world. Unless you are suggesting we return to the pursuit of autarky, we have to involve ourselves with other states for the sake of our own survival.

The principle nonetheless stands. Think about it - if everyone was busy obssessing about what is happening in Africa, who will care about what is happening in your backyard?

Besides, has anything really changed? The Christians are still telling us how to live our lives, as are the corporations, socialists, neo-nazis, and every other ideology. Things haven't changed from 1892.

G. Adams · May 16, 2005, 09:57 am

The damage has already been done, now we've got to clear up our mess, or at least help repair the damage.

castille · May 16, 2005, 10:01 am

Quote:

Quote by: G. Adams

The damage has already been done, now we've got to clear up our mess, or at least help repair the damage.

By imposing your moral values on other cultures? How is that "cleaning" anything up?

G. Adams · May 16, 2005, 10:08 am

I'mnot suggesting doing this to countries that don't want the help, I'd only suggest helping those that request it. But instead of doing to half arsed attempts we do today, that are full of neo-liberal clauses, it should be done thoroughly and without the expectation of backhanders.

Paul · May 16, 2005, 05:23 pm

castille: > ["By imposing your moral values on other cultures?"]

Pres. GW Bush and his army went to impose their moral values on Iraq with tons and tons of bombs and etc. These great moral values have caused a lot of suffering on the people of Iraq. For what!? FREEDOM! FREEDOM! Here comes FREEDOM!

May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and yuor deeds be accordingly

Peace be with you, Paul

Runa216 · May 16, 2005, 06:04 pm

I know, that's what I always try to say. nobody listens, and americans are oh so righteous, claiming that their moral are superior.

Runa

Samildanach · May 16, 2005, 06:06 pm

The only true problem is that too many people fear. They fear the future, they fear for themselves and their loved ones they fear people more powerful than them with bigger guns than them so they stupidly try to become greater and more powerful which just puts them among even bigger sharks which increases their fear to new heights.
Only the person which has no fear is truely free. The person which has no fear has no restrictions on themselves moral or otherwise but also no wish to harm anyone because they do not fear others. The point is that the less rational an individual is the more they feel they have to aquire in order to shore up and compensate for weaknesses in their own personality. Some compensate via God, some compensate via money, some compensate by establishing dominance, the really scary ones compensate by believing in God and aquiring a lot of wealth and establishing dominance showing compounded insecurity and hence personality flaws squared, any single flaw by itself is no big deal as we are humans and not perfect...but the root solution to it all is to have no fear and that should have been enshrined as the first commandment.

1) Thou shalt live without fear because fear is the enemy from which all evil springs.

Runa216 · May 16, 2005, 07:16 pm

yay, I have no fear. I'm free. I am not perfect, but I have no fear. I am pessimistic, but I have no fear.

I love me.

Runa

jeffl · May 16, 2005, 09:40 pm

Quote:

Quote by: G. Adams

But that is a different time, and a different world.

No it wasn't; the same groups that perpetrated those crimes are alive and well and firmly ensconsed in western european civil society, at least. Just look at Rwanda, and the effort by Belgian interests to secure a market for their weapons.

Quote:

We live in an interconnected world. Unless you are suggesting we return to the pursuit of autarky, we have to involve ourselves with other states for the sake of our own survival.

It only looks that way. It is in the interest of the labor force generally to become self-sufficient in all staples. It is only afew dollars at the grocery store that makes our interdependance apparently necessary.

castille · May 16, 2005, 09:53 pm

Quote:

Quote by: jeffl

Just look at Rwanda, and the effort by Belgian interests to secure a market for their weapons.

Not to mention an effort to protect the French-influenced portion of the Rwandan populace...

Things haven't changed since 1892

Runa216 · May 17, 2005, 12:06 am

I try my best to do what I can to make people happy. I will offer my services, I will help anyone, and I will offer encouragement wherever I can. Above all else, I will do everything in my power to avoid conflict, though I deal with many people who want to have conflict, and it's hard.

I realize that in this world, it's your responsibility to keep the economy moving, but I don't see it that way. I see the economy as something functiioning in the background. the foreground has me and everyone I know in it, and I will do whatever I Can to make as many lives happy as I can. it sounds like it't out of a fairy tale, but I try, as futile as it is in this world. to me that comes first. if I can make others happy, then I am happy, and hopefully others can follow my lead and return the favour. if we could all think like that, it would be a far nicer world.

The problem with that fairy tale is that far too often, people car emore about money and power to sit back and see the real picture. The world is run by greedy corporations with utter disregard for human, and animal life. (yeah, I like the environment too.) all that matters is money, at any cost. whereas I do what I can to not perpetuate that circle. I will not join any corporate compaines that support such horrible things as slave labour, deforestation, and cruelty to...anything.

that's why I chose to be in the Entertainment industry. it's not perfect, but that has the least manufacturing problems, (no matter where you go, you are somehow linked to all the world manufacturers.) and all I Want to do is keep people happy, so I wanted to get into entertainment. it's not good when it comes to media, but I'll slowly make my own brand of entertainment, but I need to go to college first. for now, I'll just do waht I Can to make mine life, and the lives of those around me better. that's all I can do, and that's my Responsibility.

Runa

jeffl · May 17, 2005, 07:57 pm

Quote:

Quote by: castille

Not to mention an effort to protect the French-influenced portion of the Rwandan populace...

Things haven't changed since 1892

Pardon my ignorance, castille; 1892?

I just heard a report about current conditions in Hati; same shit as way before 1892, and this time it's clearly the US, the UN, and Canada who share most of the responsibility. We need better news.

Paul · May 17, 2005, 10:06 pm

Runa216: > ["I'll just do waht I Can to make mine life, and the lives of those around me better. that's all I can do, and that's my Responsibility."]

That's great, I believe artists are very valuable in affecting change, cause an awakening so love can be manifested and united for peace.

May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and your deeds be accordingly

Peace be with you, Paul

castille · May 17, 2005, 11:16 pm

I can't see anything wrong with helping people, BUT too often I see people imposinv their values on each other under the guise of "helping".

Good examples can be Christianity, socialism, and democracy. These 3 ideologies are responsible for some of the world's major disasters, in the name of "helping" other people.

The line is crossed when other people don't want your help.

Runa216 · May 17, 2005, 11:28 pm

yeah, I'm against that kind of 'helping'. though I disagree with the values of many, they are their values and I refuse to tell them that those values are wrong. it is not my place to judge. when I Say help, I mean like offering a hand, help someone cross a road, or offer my time when they need it. I don't mean to 'enlighten' them or anything. in fact, it was my hatred for those who push beliefs that caused me to become what I am today.

Runa

May 16, 2005, 09:57 am	#42 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,161	The damage has already been done, now we've got to clear up our mess, or at least help repair the damage. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

May 16, 2005, 10:08 am	#44 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,161	I'mnot suggesting doing this to countries that don't want the help, I'd only suggest helping those that request it. But instead of doing to half arsed attempts we do today, that are full of neo-liberal clauses, it should be done thoroughly and without the expectation of backhanders. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

May 16, 2005, 06:06 pm	#47 (permalink) (top)
Samildanach Pragmatist Location: UK London Posts: 1,979	The only true problem is that too many people fear. They fear the future, they fear for themselves and their loved ones they fear people more powerful than them with bigger guns than them so they stupidly try to become greater and more powerful which just puts them among even bigger sharks which increases their fear to new heights. Only the person which has no fear is truely free. The person which has no fear has no restrictions on themselves moral or otherwise but also no wish to harm anyone because they do not fear others. The point is that the less rational an individual is the more they feel they have to aquire in order to shore up and compensate for weaknesses in their own personality. Some compensate via God, some compensate via money, some compensate by establishing dominance, the really scary ones compensate by believing in God and aquiring a lot of wealth and establishing dominance showing compounded insecurity and hence personality flaws squared, any single flaw by itself is no big deal as we are humans and not perfect...but the root solution to it all is to have no fear and that should have been enshrined as the first commandment. 1) Thou shalt live without fear because fear is the enemy from which all evil springs. I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs and insanity for everyone, but its always worked for me. Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime." (Ernest Hemingway)

May 17, 2005, 11:16 pm	#54 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	I can't see anything wrong with helping people, BUT too often I see people imposinv their values on each other under the guise of "helping". Good examples can be Christianity, socialism, and democracy. These 3 ideologies are responsible for some of the world's major disasters, in the name of "helping" other people. The line is crossed when other people don't want your help. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

May 16, 2005, 05:23 pm	#45 (permalink) (top)
Paul Bacon Sizzle Posts: 287	castille: > ["By imposing your moral values on other cultures?"] Pres. GW Bush and his army went to impose their moral values on Iraq with tons and tons of bombs and etc. These great moral values have caused a lot of suffering on the people of Iraq. For what!? FREEDOM! FREEDOM! Here comes FREEDOM! May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and yuor deeds be accordingly Peace be with you, Paul

May 16, 2005, 06:04 pm	#46 (permalink) (top)
Runa216 Igneous Magma Posts: 208	I know, that's what I always try to say. nobody listens, and americans are oh so righteous, claiming that their moral are superior. Runa

May 16, 2005, 07:16 pm	#48 (permalink) (top)
Runa216 Igneous Magma Posts: 208	yay, I have no fear. I'm free. I am not perfect, but I have no fear. I am pessimistic, but I have no fear. I love me. Runa

May 17, 2005, 12:06 am	#51 (permalink) (top)
Runa216 Igneous Magma Posts: 208	I try my best to do what I can to make people happy. I will offer my services, I will help anyone, and I will offer encouragement wherever I can. Above all else, I will do everything in my power to avoid conflict, though I deal with many people who want to have conflict, and it's hard. I realize that in this world, it's your responsibility to keep the economy moving, but I don't see it that way. I see the economy as something functiioning in the background. the foreground has me and everyone I know in it, and I will do whatever I Can to make as many lives happy as I can. it sounds like it't out of a fairy tale, but I try, as futile as it is in this world. to me that comes first. if I can make others happy, then I am happy, and hopefully others can follow my lead and return the favour. if we could all think like that, it would be a far nicer world. The problem with that fairy tale is that far too often, people car emore about money and power to sit back and see the real picture. The world is run by greedy corporations with utter disregard for human, and animal life. (yeah, I like the environment too.) all that matters is money, at any cost. whereas I do what I can to not perpetuate that circle. I will not join any corporate compaines that support such horrible things as slave labour, deforestation, and cruelty to...anything. that's why I chose to be in the Entertainment industry. it's not perfect, but that has the least manufacturing problems, (no matter where you go, you are somehow linked to all the world manufacturers.) and all I Want to do is keep people happy, so I wanted to get into entertainment. it's not good when it comes to media, but I'll slowly make my own brand of entertainment, but I need to go to college first. for now, I'll just do waht I Can to make mine life, and the lives of those around me better. that's all I can do, and that's my Responsibility. Runa

May 17, 2005, 10:06 pm	#53 (permalink) (top)
Paul Bacon Sizzle Posts: 287	Runa216: > ["I'll just do waht I Can to make mine life, and the lives of those around me better. that's all I can do, and that's my Responsibility."] That's great, I believe artists are very valuable in affecting change, cause an awakening so love can be manifested and united for peace. May the Spirit of Love and Truth be within you and your deeds be accordingly Peace be with you, Paul

May 17, 2005, 11:28 pm	#55 (permalink) (top)
Runa216 Igneous Magma Posts: 208	yeah, I'm against that kind of 'helping'. though I disagree with the values of many, they are their values and I refuse to tell them that those values are wrong. it is not my place to judge. when I Say help, I mean like offering a hand, help someone cross a road, or offer my time when they need it. I don't mean to 'enlighten' them or anything. in fact, it was my hatred for those who push beliefs that caused me to become what I am today. Runa