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Suburbanite · Feb 8, 2004, 06:58 am

Someone had mention the God is dead “quote” from Nietzsche. Perhaps we should examine the real quote in here? See what Nietzsche really wants, not what people from Hitler to your local Activist Atheist have to say about what he “really wants”.
In Friedrich Nietzsche’s The Gay Science (Joyous Wisdom) the following quote is laid out. What are your opinions of it?

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!"
As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances.

"Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground, and it broke and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves."

It has been further related that on that same day the madman entered divers churches and there sang a requiem. Led out and quietened, he is said to have retorted each time: "what are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchres of God?"

Impenitent · Feb 9, 2004, 12:34 am

to quote only section 125 is an injustice to Nietzsche's view of metaphysics and religious programming... one really needs to read all his books to have an understanding of his philosophy...

no, see what Nietzsche really thought about christians read the Antichrist...

http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechannel/anti.htm

as far as what Nietzsche actually wanted, try Thus Spake Zarathustra, and the Revaluation of All Values:

Decree Against Christianity

Declared on the day of salvation, on the first day of the Year One
(—on September 30, 1888 of the false time-chronology)

War to the death against depravity : depravity is Christianity

First proposition.— Every type of anti-nature is depraved. The most depraved type of man is the priest: He teaches anti-nature. Against the priest one doesn't use arguments, one uses the penitentiary.

Second proposition.— Every participation in divine service is an assassination attempt on public morality. One should be more severe toward Protestants than toward Catholics, more severe toward liberal Protestants than toward the orthodox. The criminal character of a Christian increases when he approaches knowledge [Wissenschaft]. The criminal of criminals is consequently the philosopher.

Third proposition.— The accursed places, in which Christianity has hatched its basilisk eggs, should be razed to the ground and be, as vile places of the earth, the terror of all posterity. One should breed poisonous snakes there.

Fourth proposition.— The sermon on chastity is a public instigation to anti-nature. Every display of contempt for sexual love, and every defilement of it through the concept "dirty" [unrein] is original sin against the holy spirit of life.

Fifth proposition.— With a priest at one's table food is pushed aside: one excommunicates oneself therewith from honest society. The priest is our chandala—he should be ostracized, starved, and driven into every kind of desert.

Sixth proposition.— One should call the "holy" story by the name that it deserves, as the accursed story; one should use the words "God," "Saviour," "redeemer," "saint" as invectives, as criminal badges.

Seventh proposition.— The rest follows therefrom.

The Antichrist

Alex S. · Feb 14, 2004, 05:10 am

The first post's quote is a nice example of Nietzsche's criticism of values, if one views the "suns" that Nietzsche speaks of as a metaphor for values. What did Christianity and Judaism (Earth) do when they unchained the chandala (sun as morals, values, herd-animal instinct)? Reversal of values.

But what values were reversed? That's a question I don't think my current reading of Nietzsche has answered, yet.

Feb 9, 2004, 12:34 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	to quote only section 125 is an injustice to Nietzsche's view of metaphysics and religious programming... one really needs to read all his books to have an understanding of his philosophy... no, see what Nietzsche really thought about christians read the Antichrist... http://www.geocities.com/thenietzschechannel/anti.htm as far as what Nietzsche actually wanted, try Thus Spake Zarathustra, and the Revaluation of All Values: Decree Against Christianity Declared on the day of salvation, on the first day of the Year One (—on September 30, 1888 of the false time-chronology) War to the death against depravity : depravity is Christianity First proposition.— Every type of anti-nature is depraved. The most depraved type of man is the priest: He teaches anti-nature. Against the priest one doesn't use arguments, one uses the penitentiary. Second proposition.— Every participation in divine service is an assassination attempt on public morality. One should be more severe toward Protestants than toward Catholics, more severe toward liberal Protestants than toward the orthodox. The criminal character of a Christian increases when he approaches knowledge [Wissenschaft]. The criminal of criminals is consequently the philosopher. Third proposition.— The accursed places, in which Christianity has hatched its basilisk eggs, should be razed to the ground and be, as vile places of the earth, the terror of all posterity. One should breed poisonous snakes there. Fourth proposition.— The sermon on chastity is a public instigation to anti-nature. Every display of contempt for sexual love, and every defilement of it through the concept "dirty" [unrein] is original sin against the holy spirit of life. Fifth proposition.— With a priest at one's table food is pushed aside: one excommunicates oneself therewith from honest society. The priest is our chandala—he should be ostracized, starved, and driven into every kind of desert. Sixth proposition.— One should call the "holy" story by the name that it deserves, as the accursed story; one should use the words "God," "Saviour," "redeemer," "saint" as invectives, as criminal badges. Seventh proposition.— The rest follows therefrom. The Antichrist "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 8, 2004, 06:58 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	Someone had mention the God is dead “quote” from Nietzsche. Perhaps we should examine the real quote in here? See what Nietzsche really wants, not what people from Hitler to your local Activist Atheist have to say about what he “really wants”. In Friedrich Nietzsche’s The Gay Science (Joyous Wisdom) the following quote is laid out. What are your opinions of it? Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market-place, and cried incessantly: "I am looking for God! I am looking for God!" As many of those who did not believe in God were standing together there, he excited considerable laughter. Have you lost him, then? said one. Did he lose his way like a child? said another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? or emigrated? Thus they shouted and laughed. The madman sprang into their midst and pierced them with his glances. "Where has God gone?" he cried. "I shall tell you. We have killed him - you and I. We are his murderers. But how have we done this? How were we able to drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What did we do when we unchained the earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving now? Away from all suns? Are we not perpetually falling? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there any up or down left? Are we not straying as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is it not more and more night coming on all the time? Must not lanterns be lit in the morning? Do we not hear anything yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we not smell anything yet of God's decomposition? Gods too decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we, murderers of all murderers, console ourselves? That which was the holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet possessed has bled to death under our knives. Who will wipe this blood off us? With what water could we purify ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we need to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we not ourselves become gods simply to be worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whosoever shall be born after us - for the sake of this deed he shall be part of a higher history than all history hitherto." Here the madman fell silent and again regarded his listeners; and they too were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern to the ground, and it broke and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time has not come yet. The tremendous event is still on its way, still travelling - it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time, the light of the stars requires time, deeds require time even after they are done, before they can be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than the distant stars - and yet they have done it themselves." It has been further related that on that same day the madman entered divers churches and there sang a requiem. Led out and quietened, he is said to have retorted each time: "what are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchres of God?"

Feb 14, 2004, 05:10 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Alex S. Sedimentary Rock Posts: 10	The first post's quote is a nice example of Nietzsche's criticism of values, if one views the "suns" that Nietzsche speaks of as a metaphor for values. What did Christianity and Judaism (Earth) do when they unchained the chandala (sun as morals, values, herd-animal instinct)? Reversal of values. But what values were reversed? That's a question I don't think my current reading of Nietzsche has answered, yet.