What Makes Us Human?

[Impenitent]

Quote by: damnrad, Quote by: Impenitent, Quote by: damnrad, Quote by: Impenitent, you are assuming that the animals in question are having "advanced communication"... that is an error in reasoning... not science... No, the research attempts to correlate stimulus with response over great distances: noises transmitted great distances that have responses among those receiving them far away. True, it's a fallacy to ASSUME that this means that communication is taking place, **** end of thought just as it's your fallacy to assume that communication is not. :rolleyes: no, it is not a fallacy to assume nothing is occuring when there is nothing occuring The scientific answer is not complete, far from it. We are discussing the possibility. And the same is true with sign language among great apes. Scientists have shown that great apes can be taught sign language, can use it meaningfully in relation to humans and other great apes, and can develop new 'concepts' in what they sign. What scientists have not shown is what this means, is whether this shows high-level communication abilities, what this means for sentience. "What scientists have not shown is what this means" have NOT SHOWN and you suggest it is sentience? the error is yours, you are arguing from a position of admitted ignorance to a preposterous conclusion... and if you are only considering possibilities, a claim that the dark side of the moon is covered with orange toilets has exactly the same weight as a claim that non humans can talk... >have NOT SHOWN and you suggest it is sentience? No, I said that we don't know. >the error is yours, you are arguing from a position of admitted ignorance to a preposterous conclusion... brilliance! I'm arguing from a position of general scientific ignorance at this time to a conclusion that we don't know. :rolleyes: in the dark mumbling about what cannot be seen and calling it a vision... Of course, that conclusion conflicts with your true-belief about the world, so it must be 'preposterous' because you just can't admit of the possibility. I don't know what all of your problem is, but rigidity and fanaticism seem to constitute part of it. **** scientific facts of the matter are the damnest things... screws up talking animal theories with empirical evidence and scientific facts... >and if you are only considering possibilities, a claim that the dark side of the moon is covered with orange toilets has exactly the same weight as a claim that non humans can talk...

A claim that the dark side of the moon is covered with orange toilets holds greater validity than your argument. It at least states a testable hypothesis, one that can be falsified -- and in fact, one that has.

****really? it has? we've seen the entire dark side of the moon?

That has much greater value than your decrees about how the world just must be -- just because you proclaim it so.

:rolleyes: science proclaims it so...
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[Vagabond]

"The old woman said: 'You've heard of animals chewing off a leg to escape a trap? There's an animal kind of trick. A human would remain in the trap, endure the pain, feigning death that he might kill the trapper and remove a threat to his kind.' "
--Frank Herbert, Dune. page 9.

You would ask, what makes us human?

I would say that perhaps humanity can be defined through the actions of its members. Humans would act in the best interests of the whole society, forsaking the needs of the one. It is able to do this through the human's ability to put mind over matter, to rise above the confines of the body through willpower alone. It is the human's ability to use reason and formulate strategy that defines its very humanity apart from that of animal nature.

I am not saying that being human is better than being an animal because I've not experienced the latter, but I'd tend to see the animal much more sure of itself and its place in the world than the human. The animal is more at peace because it accepts its place in the world unconditionally, while humans fight themselves inside trying to discover that which they can never accept. We are more than animals, perhaps less than animals, but I'd not say we are the same.