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Paul · Apr 9, 2005, 10:04 am

Deceivers are willfull in deceiving, but the deceived are not willfull in passing on the lie as being true. As long as the deceived believe themselves as being truthfull, there is no way for the deceived to be undeceived. Is it possible that the whole world is deceived when it's about the religions? Lets say ALL the religions in the world have The False God, that claims be The True God as the founder of their belief system. But each religion got a different line of BS from their founder saying, "All those of other religions are deceived, because they have received false doctrine from their False God" I am very sad to say that Christianty is also involved in the Devils game. The first Christians were the disciples of Saul/St.Paul.

"--- that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives THE WHOLE WORLD" - (Rev.12-9) --- "--- ALL THE NATIONS were deceived." - (Rev. 18:23)

Peace be with you, Paul

orgaelin · Apr 9, 2005, 11:56 am

What's your point Big P?!

Dadoo · Apr 9, 2005, 12:17 pm

Paul,
You cannot be deceived in this way.
If the false God were to approach a man, convince him and be accepted as true God, True God It is. The man chooses what he will worship whatever the situation, and regardless of trickery..
If the false God is deceitful and tricking, then that means that the true God exists, and allpraise is It's however misguided are the people.

Gorgo · Apr 9, 2005, 12:39 pm

Are you trying to trick us?

Quote:

Quote by: Dadoo

You cannot be deceived in this way.

Paul · Apr 9, 2005, 07:49 pm

Dadoo: > ["Paul, You cannot be deceived in this way."]

Do you mean me, or Joseph Smith the founder of 'The Mormon Religion' through The Book of Mormon?

Peace be with you, Paul

Paul · Apr 9, 2005, 08:10 pm

Dadoo: > ["Paul, You cannot be deceived in this way."]

Read this ---> "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is The Lord's kingdom once again established on earth,"

Are you saying, that Joseph Smith could not be deceived in this way.

Peace be with you, Paul

...Kate · Apr 9, 2005, 08:13 pm

Paul, what do you believe and why do you believe it?

Paul · Apr 9, 2005, 11:29 pm

A person's belief is what they DO, regardless of what they say.

When we do not live according to what we say what we believe, we do not
believe what we say. Those that walk their talk are honest to the world, and those that don't are not. One may say, they believe this or that, but if there is no good fruit from what they think they believe, then what was the purpose of their belief. ( fruits --> the result of action )

The World has an abundance of religion, from my observation LOVE is very much lacking in The World. Has anyone else noticed?

My True God is one that said;

--- "You shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - (Matt.:22:37-40).

--- "A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:34-35).

--- "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say unto you, "Love your enemies, ---" - ( Matt.5:43-48 )

If I do not walk the talk, then I am a liar like anyone else.

The Deceiver said, "Freedom will bring about Peace; Freedom leads to Peace; Freedom is the basis for Peace". But the 'Man of Peace' says, "Love will bring about Peace; Love leads to Peace; Love is the basis for Peace".

Peace be with you from 'The Peace Country', Paul

Paul · Apr 9, 2005, 11:45 pm

Dadoof: > ["If the false God were to approach a man, convince him and be accepted as true God, True God It is."] --- Where did you learn this from?

If the false God comes to you as an angel of blinding light and says, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" and you believe this to be the true, does that make it TRUE?

Peace be with you, Paul

toal · Apr 10, 2005, 09:23 pm

This topic has now broken down into its underlying question: "What is truth?"

He who tells the truth is not a deciever, but who do we know who tells the truth? I guess thats where the element of faith comes in. I think that the closer you get to your "core beliefs", especially those concerning religion, concrete fact becomes less and blind faith becomes more. Perhaps we will never know what absolute "truth" is, and maybe there is no way we can know. Instead of truth being an absolute, the only way we can define it is personally.

Dadoo · Apr 11, 2005, 03:31 am

Hello, Paul.
To address the question "Who can't be deceived in this way?" You, or even the founder of The Mormon faith? We must establish common ground for fair conversation. Understand that I believe each soul may have any "God" before them as they please. I offer yourself and everyone the same grace. Worship what you please, and accept the consequences, as long as others are not unduly troubled or injured through the effort.
If the "Deceiver" or a "false" God were to convince a soul to worship them, who am I to Judge? I do not laud the Deceiver, nor do I dissent the worshipper's birthrite of choice!
Indeed, the Deceiver is simply a facet of the whole or the unified field of God, therefore It is at the mercy of the true God's will. I cannot fear that deception, less believe in it! Unerring Belief in a one, true God absolutely protects one from deception at the archetypal level. In Hindu, one may say "Neti, neti"- "not this, not that." God is displayed in totality, and no part of it can shine less than the whole. In deference to the belief that others must be saved from the deception of the "loveless one" I agree that some must try to reach out and help. However, all a Angel of God may tell a misguided worshipper of the Deceiver is "You do not worship my God" sic("The one, true God (to me...)) Point of view is crucial. Who do you trust? Only those who deceive may be deceived, my mama says. Living well and in service to others is my motto. personal agenda can often lead one astray.

Gorgo. He he he he. :( Sadly, trickery is what has lead all of us here. :) Trickery may yet lead us 'out' . There are many levels of understanding, and I am just one, like you. :eek:

Paul, where did I learn what?? I am my own keeper, brother. I have heard it said, perhaps, in reading that at the Eleusian rites the Oracle would whisper "The God of the Bible is the Black God!" Whether this is hype, I can't say. It may be a koan of sorts. Again the One God is all Good and all Evil, by definition and sheer design. We accept what we believe resonates with our core values. Many of our beliefs are original, I feel.
Have you been taught all you believe? Or, did you accept some things and reject others?

In any case, we are our often own greatest deceivers.
In Unity and Spirit of one Godhead, one totality we cannot be outwardly tricked. If we are wavering in faith or belief, then yes, you can be fooled. There is only safety here. We have nothing at all to fear. Even death itself, a door.

Be well, be great!
Dadoo

Dadoo · Apr 11, 2005, 03:45 am

Paul, Eureka!
NO, Joseph Smith was NOT deceived. Do you understand what I mean? He realized the others HAD been deceived. What I mean by "cannot be deceived" takes a wee bit of intelligence and some thought on the matter to realize.
There are no lies that are not unknown.
Unless, God not exist.
Why do I need be omniscient and at-edge if I am naught in comparison to the source!?!
And you? And you?

toal, the deceiver may use truth as it wishes. It is the Intention that creates villains and heroes.
The Greatest Deceiver never, ever lies, capiche? Truth is not polarized with deception. Even heroes need Lie sometimes to get the Big Picture in order. The Deceiver never lied? At least, you didn't think so. *wink*
I respect your notion of truth being personal. In this way there are no universals.
Everyone is entitled to voice their experience. take care,
Dadoo

crayola · Apr 11, 2005, 07:47 pm

Why did the sons of Jacob need commandments?

Apr 9, 2005, 10:04 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Paul Bacon Sizzle Posts: 287	Deceived? Deceivers are willfull in deceiving, but the deceived are not willfull in passing on the lie as being true. As long as the deceived believe themselves as being truthfull, there is no way for the deceived to be undeceived. Is it possible that the whole world is deceived when it's about the religions? Lets say ALL the religions in the world have The False God, that claims be The True God as the founder of their belief system. But each religion got a different line of BS from their founder saying, "All those of other religions are deceived, because they have received false doctrine from their False God" I am very sad to say that Christianty is also involved in the Devils game. The first Christians were the disciples of Saul/St.Paul. "--- that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives THE WHOLE WORLD" - (Rev.12-9) --- "--- ALL THE NATIONS were deceived." - (Rev. 18:23) Peace be with you, Paul

Apr 9, 2005, 11:56 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 720	What's your point Big P?! "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Apr 9, 2005, 12:17 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Dadoo Pure Energy Posts: 384	Paul, You cannot be deceived in this way. If the false God were to approach a man, convince him and be accepted as true God, True God It is. The man chooses what he will worship whatever the situation, and regardless of trickery.. If the false God is deceitful and tricking, then that means that the true God exists, and allpraise is It's however misguided are the people. Heartbeat, the only song you will not hear until it's gone.

Apr 11, 2005, 03:31 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Dadoo Pure Energy Posts: 384	Hello, Paul. To address the question "Who can't be deceived in this way?" You, or even the founder of The Mormon faith? We must establish common ground for fair conversation. Understand that I believe each soul may have any "God" before them as they please. I offer yourself and everyone the same grace. Worship what you please, and accept the consequences, as long as others are not unduly troubled or injured through the effort. If the "Deceiver" or a "false" God were to convince a soul to worship them, who am I to Judge? I do not laud the Deceiver, nor do I dissent the worshipper's birthrite of choice! Indeed, the Deceiver is simply a facet of the whole or the unified field of God, therefore It is at the mercy of the true God's will. I cannot fear that deception, less believe in it! Unerring Belief in a one, true God absolutely protects one from deception at the archetypal level. In Hindu, one may say "Neti, neti"- "not this, not that." God is displayed in totality, and no part of it can shine less than the whole. In deference to the belief that others must be saved from the deception of the "loveless one" I agree that some must try to reach out and help. However, all a Angel of God may tell a misguided worshipper of the Deceiver is "You do not worship my God" sic("The one, true God (to me...)) Point of view is crucial. Who do you trust? Only those who deceive may be deceived, my mama says. Living well and in service to others is my motto. personal agenda can often lead one astray. Gorgo. He he he he. :( Sadly, trickery is what has lead all of us here. :) Trickery may yet lead us 'out' . There are many levels of understanding, and I am just one, like you. :eek: Paul, where did I learn what?? I am my own keeper, brother. I have heard it said, perhaps, in reading that at the Eleusian rites the Oracle would whisper "The God of the Bible is the Black God!" Whether this is hype, I can't say. It may be a koan of sorts. Again the One God is all Good and all Evil, by definition and sheer design. We accept what we believe resonates with our core values. Many of our beliefs are original, I feel. Have you been taught all you believe? Or, did you accept some things and reject others? In any case, we are our often own greatest deceivers. In Unity and Spirit of one Godhead, one totality we cannot be outwardly tricked. If we are wavering in faith or belief, then yes, you can be fooled. There is only safety here. We have nothing at all to fear. Even death itself, a door. Be well, be great! Dadoo Heartbeat, the only song you will not hear until it's gone.

Apr 11, 2005, 03:45 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Dadoo Pure Energy Posts: 384	Paul, Eureka! NO, Joseph Smith was NOT deceived. Do you understand what I mean? He realized the others HAD been deceived. What I mean by "cannot be deceived" takes a wee bit of intelligence and some thought on the matter to realize. There are no lies that are not unknown. Unless, God not exist. Why do I need be omniscient and at-edge if I am naught in comparison to the source!?! And you? And you? toal, the deceiver may use truth as it wishes. It is the Intention that creates villains and heroes. The Greatest Deceiver never, ever lies, capiche? Truth is not polarized with deception. Even heroes need Lie sometimes to get the Big Picture in order. The Deceiver never lied? At least, you didn't think so. wink I respect your notion of truth being personal. In this way there are no universals. Everyone is entitled to voice their experience. take care, Dadoo Heartbeat, the only song you will not hear until it's gone.

Apr 9, 2005, 07:49 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Paul Bacon Sizzle Posts: 287	Dadoo: > ["Paul, You cannot be deceived in this way."] Do you mean me, or Joseph Smith the founder of 'The Mormon Religion' through The Book of Mormon? Peace be with you, Paul

Apr 9, 2005, 08:10 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Paul Bacon Sizzle Posts: 287	Dadoo: > ["Paul, You cannot be deceived in this way."] Read this ---> "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is The Lord's kingdom once again established on earth," Are you saying, that Joseph Smith could not be deceived in this way. Peace be with you, Paul

Apr 9, 2005, 08:13 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
...Kate Igneous Magma Location: United States, CST Posts: 393	Paul, what do you believe and why do you believe it?

Apr 9, 2005, 11:29 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Paul Bacon Sizzle Posts: 287	A person's belief is what they DO, regardless of what they say. When we do not live according to what we say what we believe, we do not believe what we say. Those that walk their talk are honest to the world, and those that don't are not. One may say, they believe this or that, but if there is no good fruit from what they think they believe, then what was the purpose of their belief. ( fruits --> the result of action ) The World has an abundance of religion, from my observation LOVE is very much lacking in The World. Has anyone else noticed? My True God is one that said; --- "You shall love the lord your God with all your heart, and all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." - (Matt.:22:37-40). --- "A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another. (John 13:34-35). --- "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say unto you, "Love your enemies, ---" - ( Matt.5:43-48 ) If I do not walk the talk, then I am a liar like anyone else. The Deceiver said, "Freedom will bring about Peace; Freedom leads to Peace; Freedom is the basis for Peace". But the 'Man of Peace' says, "Love will bring about Peace; Love leads to Peace; Love is the basis for Peace". Peace be with you from 'The Peace Country', Paul

Apr 9, 2005, 11:45 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Paul Bacon Sizzle Posts: 287	Dadoof: > ["If the false God were to approach a man, convince him and be accepted as true God, True God It is."] --- Where did you learn this from? If the false God comes to you as an angel of blinding light and says, "I am the Jesus of Nazareth" and you believe this to be the true, does that make it TRUE? Peace be with you, Paul

Apr 10, 2005, 09:23 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
toal Sedimentary Rock Posts: 9	This topic has now broken down into its underlying question: "What is truth?" He who tells the truth is not a deciever, but who do we know who tells the truth? I guess thats where the element of faith comes in. I think that the closer you get to your "core beliefs", especially those concerning religion, concrete fact becomes less and blind faith becomes more. Perhaps we will never know what absolute "truth" is, and maybe there is no way we can know. Instead of truth being an absolute, the only way we can define it is personally.

Apr 11, 2005, 07:47 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
crayola Molten Ash Posts: 129	Why did the sons of Jacob need commandments?