Satan's greatest accomplishment

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Guy Since most of us agree for the existence of God, we must also agree that he is beyond any doubts about his mental habilities.

It was once a mass belief that the world was flat. So what does that prove?

[Sonart]

Quote by: Mr.V Yes, actually, it (not believing in God) is evil. And is the point of the thread btw. Satan through his influence has placed Huminism and Secularism as a viable path for people to take, the misguided flock of sheep. The worst part is, by taking this path, no accepting there is a God and Jesus was your savior, you cannot see Satan paving the road before you.

Well there we are, then. Not believing in what Mr.V believes is evil, the moral equivilent of being Adolf Hitler... no, wait, Hitler apparently accepted that there is a God and Jesus is our savior. Well, never mind that.

But it does lead me to a few questions... fer instance, what of the countless generations of peoples around the globe who existed before God decided to introduce Jesus to a small, insignificant backwater of the world? Or for that matter, the countless generations of souls who came after Jesus, but lived in corners of the globe beyond the knowledge of western religions, or who, even after being exposed to Christianity, chose to remain faithful to the beliefs of their families and people? Dupes of Satan? Endless legions of misquided and expendable souls for God to play with so that in the end faithful souls like Mr.V could feel good about himself?

Let me retry to my test question. Some may have heard it before:

After school, a young Thai girl is walking home along the streets of Bangkok. She's 13, a very bright, cheerful girl who loves her parents, is kind, helpful and generous to everyone, chaste, and is devout in the non-theist, Buddhist faith of her parents, her extended family and her community. As she walks along, she comes across a small knot of people gathered around a Christian missionary, who is holding forth about the story of Jesus and Christianity. Naturally curious, the young girl stops and listens in. An hour later, having clearly understood what the missionary was explaining, she leaves, deciding that while it was all very interesting, she'll remain faithful to her Buddhism, thank you very much. Pleased with having made the correct decision, she steps into the crosswalk, directly in the path of a careening bus, and is killed instantly.

So, what shall be the punishment for her evil?

The path to hell is paved with Good Intentions... That sums up the secularist movement in a nutshell.

Such as the Inquisition and the Medici Popes? Southern preachers who defended the institution of slavery with the Bible, which does in fact defend slavery? Mr.V, I think your statement is just a way of saying that morality isn't in what we do or don't do, it's in accepting the correct dogma. So it doesn't matter whether or not I have a strong sense of right and wrong and have lived a moral life, because you have already decided that I am - by definition - immoral. Heck, you have it even better, right? You can live a completely immoral life, just so long as before you die, you tell God you're sorry and all will be forgiven.


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[Mr.Vicchio]

It's not ME saying atheism is evil, wrong and morally deficient. It just is. You guys spend as much time and effort as it takes to amuse you, bashing, slamming and harressing the religious.

Yet if I make a statement of belief based upon Biblical teachings, you went offf on a tangent as if it was a peronal insult.

Get over it.

[LogicaLunatic]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio It's not ME saying atheism is evil, wrong and morally deficient. It just is. You guys spend as much time and effort as it takes to amuse you, bashing, slamming and harressing the religious. Yet if I make a statement of belief based upon Biblical teachings, you went offf on a tangent as if it was a peronal insult. Get over it.

You said that the point of this thread was that not believing in God is evil. I think Sonart was just trying to show you how wrong he thinks your position is. We don't understand how you can reconcile the story of the cheerful Thai girl into your worldview. After she gets hit by the bus does she go to hell because she didn't believe in god? If she got hit by the bus BEFORE she heard the word of your god would she go to hell?

(If you answer yes to either of those questions then your god isn't worth worshipping. Hitler would be a better deity than the god that would send the girl from that story to hell.)

Please, tell us how you can reconcile this and still remain comfortable in your beliefs as a Christian. I ask simply because if I were a christian, I wouldn't be able to.

Thanks!

LL

[Gorgo]

If God is all-knowing and all-powerful and created everything, and that Thai girl goes to Hell, he created her to go to Hell.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: HE WHO IS NO LONGER HERE AND WHO SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS It's not ME saying atheism is evil, wrong and morally deficient. It just is.

It's not me saying that believing in demons and spooks is a mental disorder, it just is.
http://www.geocities.com/bororissa/rel.html

[Gilligan]

Satan accomplishes nothing without man. If people have forgotten that either Satan or God exist, that's our own fault for allowing that to happen. Of course Satan probably enjoys the fact that there are so many unsuspecting souls that he can use. But, they aren't much of a challenge. Therefore it isn't much of an accomplishment.

[CJFreeman]

How many of you folks out there have actually done thorough research into the Judeo-Christian religion? Conversely, how many of you have just become proficient at making what don't know sound like something you do know (i.e., sophistry)? And would you have the testicular fortitude to admit it?

Christopher J. Freeman

[tman_ndsu08]

Since when is knowledge on a subject a requisite of arguing about it?

[CJFreeman]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Since when is knowledge on a subject a requisite of arguing about it?

Why didn't you just ask something equally inane, like, "since when is writing requisite to posting"?

You don't have to prove your ignorance. It's alright to keep it to yourself.

Christopher J. Freeman

[LogicaLunatic]

Quote by: CJFreeman How many of you folks out there have actually done thorough research into the Judeo-Christian religion? Conversely, how many of you have just become proficient at making what don't know sound like something you do know (i.e., sophistry)? And would you have the testicular fortitude to admit it? Christopher J. Freeman

Men are men and monsters and men and monsters are monsters.

There's some sophistry for you.

I've done research on quite a few religions including the Judeo-Christian religion.

I haven't studied unicorns though I'm pretty sure I could argue that they don't exist.

LL

[CJFreeman]

How quaint.

Christopher J. Freeman

[Sonart]

It's not ME saying atheism is evil, wrong and morally deficient. It just is.

No, it is you saying atheism is evil, because what 'just is' as relates to God is unknowable since, as we all know, God works in mysterious ways.

Quote by: bandaid But, they aren't much of a challenge. Therefore it isn't much of an accomplishment.

Beg pardon? Are you saying that, for instance, the Dalai Lama is a dupe of Satan and not much of a challenge? This makes God's standards of what constitutes a moral life pretty friggin' narrow, don't you think, if not downright selfish. After all, you're saying that even with the strictest senses of right and wrong, compassion and moral behavior, in the end it comes down not to morality but to what story you believe. And that is absurd.

Quote by: CJFreeman How many of you folks out there have actually done thorough research into the Judeo-Christian religion? Conversely, how many of you have just become proficient at making what don't know sound like something you do know (i.e., sophistry)? And would you have the testicular fortitude to admit it?

Why would that matter, CJ? As has been pointed out repeatedly, it all comes down to a matter of faith. When I was about 18 I formally accepted Christ and was 'Born Again', studied the Bible, etc. It was only a matter of months, however, before my inner truth was telling me that I just wasn't buying it, that whatever I was looking for, this wasn't it. I had no faith, at least not in God, and having a Doctorate in Theology or Comparative Religions won't change that.

Lacking that, I've spent the last 40-odd years trying to figure out what I do believe and, in a nutshell, it comes down to this. As with all species, Homo Sapiens have been endowed by the process of evolution with the tools for their own survival and success as a species. And primary among those tools is that we are social animals with powerful instincts to work and live in harmony within mutually protective social groups. And because those tools also include high intelligence, inventiveness and imagination, the intricacies of achieving social harmony are complex, so the process of evolution has endowed humans - most humans - with another tool, a - for the lack of a better term - 'Religion Gene'. It's an inate sense of a higher power that will somehow guide us through the often conflicting urges and desires we experience with our highly intelligent and immaginative minds, in order to achieve that harmonious society, and we therefore look to alpha humans with advanced senses of that higher power to interpret how that higher power means for us to conduct our lives. Is it any wonder that the 6 non-religious Commandments - thou shalt not murder, nor steal, nor lie, nor covet, nor commit adultery and thou shalt honor your parents - are universal among every society on earth?

And as with all species, among humans there are certain anomolies which have always represented a certain percentage of the population throughout the ages - albinos, dwarves, gays, etc. - and it's because they are the same in every other respect and do not threaten the survival of the species (and, it has been theorized, actually perform certain roles) they've continued to contribute to the society and their percentages have remained constant.

And I suspect that one of those anomolies is me, the non-believer. I lack the religion gene. Yet regardless, my instincts to live and work in harmony with my society are intact. I know right from wrong and my moral compass is simple and strong - do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I contribute to my society through honest work, have passed on my knowledge and skills through part-time teaching, I've willingly contributed time, wealth and compassion to those less fortunate, was faithful in marriage, and have more or less obeyed the law throughout my life. They only thing I don't do is believe that there's some intelligent deity that guides me.

So no, Mr.V, I do not and never will believe that this makes me evil.


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[Mr.Vicchio]

do unto others as you would have them do unto you. JC, 30 A.D.

[Sonart]

Quote by: Mr.V do unto others as you would have them do unto you. JC, 30 A.D.

--"Do not impose on others what you yourself do not desire.”-- Confucius, 500 BC.

Like I said, some things are universal among all societies.


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[Mr.Vicchio]

I actually read a website, that I don't have handy, that shows most of confusioc's writtings were written hundreds of years after his death and he really wasn't a person but a mythological figure created by later Chinese emperoros. Seriously.

[tman_ndsu08]

Interesting.

So you're saying that the supposed teachings of a man that may or may not have existed were written hundreds of years after his death by people who were not him to try and mold the thoughts of others.

Now where have I heard of a situation like this before...

[Gorgo]

Can't happen! Impossible!

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Now where have I heard of a situation like this before...

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Gorgo Can't happen! Impossible!

The jews are still safe, this only applies to the new testament.

[Sonart]

I actually read a website, that I don't have handy, that shows most of confusioc's writtings were written hundreds of years after his death and he really wasn't a person but a mythological figure created by later Chinese emperoros. Seriously.

Really? And Jesus' words were all taken down by a stenographer? Plus I can probably find a website or two that claims Jesus never existed. None of which matters, since the words, whoever wrote them whenever they wrote them, are expressions of the golden rule and thus not a registered trademark of the Christian church.