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orgaelin · Apr 4, 2005, 06:58 pm

Okay folks. I'm here to talk about God, but not as we know it Jim.

The way I see it there are two Gods. One belongs to the church, the other belongs to you.

1) The Church God:
The bible is very clear about what God is. He is the loving creator or all things, for a start. But in order to secure his love you have to be utterly devoted to him. That means following his rules to the letter, and the bible gives plenty of examples of what happens when people don't.

Obviously the major example that comes to mind is the great flood. The Churches God is so vengeful and has such a strong temper that he was once willing to destroy billions of lives to satisfy that temper. I would call them innocent lives, but the church doesn't believe in innocence and neither does God. Why do I say so? Well what about all the babies that drowned in God's great flood? What about the babies who burned to death when he rained hellfire down on Soddom and Gomorrah?

The bible and the church tell us that God is, by definition, unlimited. He is also generous, after all, he gave his only son so that we might be forgiven...

...but forgiven by whom? Forgiven by God. So here's the thing... why does an unlimited and all-powerful God need to have his own son murdered before he will be willing to forgive humanity for its sins? Why not just forgive us? How exactly did Jesus' death persuade him to forgive us?!

The bible tells us that God expects your faith. To question God is not acceptable. To defy God is not acceptable, and is punnishible by eternal damnation. But the good news is that you have free will, so if you want to defy God and be damned forever, well then you're quite welcome to!

2) Your God:
The other God is the God you know in your heart. If you're a Christian, the chances are you know what it means to 'feel Jesus', to 'know him in your heart', right? And if you do, you know what he is, you know how he feels, you know his heart as you know yours, and you know that God is not what the bible says he is.

Don't take my word for it, please! Just ask yourself. Ask Jesus or God to help you, and answer these questions: Would your God burn children alive for sins they had not been alive long enough to commit? Would your God drown all the millions of animals of the earth who took no part in the activities of the humans who angered him so? Would your God even be angered so much in the first place? Would your God grant you free will with one hand, but scald you for using it with the other? And if you wronged him, would your god comdemn you to eternal punnishment, irrespective of the scale of your sins, treating the robber as equal to the rapist and the murderer? Would your god who has everything and knows everything require your praise to remind him of how wonderful he is?

You can cast these questions aside, but these are the questions that every Christian must deal with sooner or later. Sooner is better, because a life spent *really* knowing God is a life well spent. A life spent *really* knowing the bible is a life well wasted.

There's a question in here for y'all somewhere... ah yes, any Christians (or likewise believers in God) agree that they don't need all the shackles of organised religion to tell them how to love God and how God loves us?

~ Org.

CJFreeman · Apr 8, 2005, 02:54 pm

Have you ever read a book? If so, why?

Do you think that your post carries with it a subtle irony? That is, do you think that your implied apology againt the Christian God is as full of "all the shackles of organised religion"? And what's so bad about organised religion: the organisation, or the fact that it's religion?

Christopher J. Freeman

LogicaLunatic · Apr 9, 2005, 12:11 am

CJ,

Try looking at it this way...

If your religious leader informed you that God wanted you to carry out any of the above atrocities or any of the ones that the Bible contains... Would you do it?

Me? I don't care if God himself commanded me to do it. I wouldn't. Does this mean I'm a little more moral than god?

Hrm.....

orgaelin · Apr 9, 2005, 08:53 am

CJ, I'm not exactly following you! I wasn't apologising for the old git - I was attacking him.

Apr 4, 2005, 06:58 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 720	For the Christians... Okay folks. I'm here to talk about God, but not as we know it Jim. The way I see it there are two Gods. One belongs to the church, the other belongs to you. 1) The Church God: The bible is very clear about what God is. He is the loving creator or all things, for a start. But in order to secure his love you have to be utterly devoted to him. That means following his rules to the letter, and the bible gives plenty of examples of what happens when people don't. Obviously the major example that comes to mind is the great flood. The Churches God is so vengeful and has such a strong temper that he was once willing to destroy billions of lives to satisfy that temper. I would call them innocent lives, but the church doesn't believe in innocence and neither does God. Why do I say so? Well what about all the babies that drowned in God's great flood? What about the babies who burned to death when he rained hellfire down on Soddom and Gomorrah? The bible and the church tell us that God is, by definition, unlimited. He is also generous, after all, he gave his only son so that we might be forgiven... ...but forgiven by whom? Forgiven by God. So here's the thing... why does an unlimited and all-powerful God need to have his own son murdered before he will be willing to forgive humanity for its sins? Why not just forgive us? How exactly did Jesus' death persuade him to forgive us?! The bible tells us that God expects your faith. To question God is not acceptable. To defy God is not acceptable, and is punnishible by eternal damnation. But the good news is that you have free will, so if you want to defy God and be damned forever, well then you're quite welcome to! 2) Your God: The other God is the God you know in your heart. If you're a Christian, the chances are you know what it means to 'feel Jesus', to 'know him in your heart', right? And if you do, you know what he is, you know how he feels, you know his heart as you know yours, and you know that God is not what the bible says he is. Don't take my word for it, please! Just ask yourself. Ask Jesus or God to help you, and answer these questions: Would your God burn children alive for sins they had not been alive long enough to commit? Would your God drown all the millions of animals of the earth who took no part in the activities of the humans who angered him so? Would your God even be angered so much in the first place? Would your God grant you free will with one hand, but scald you for using it with the other? And if you wronged him, would your god comdemn you to eternal punnishment, irrespective of the scale of your sins, treating the robber as equal to the rapist and the murderer? Would your god who has everything and knows everything require your praise to remind him of how wonderful he is? You can cast these questions aside, but these are the questions that every Christian must deal with sooner or later. Sooner is better, because a life spent really knowing God is a life well spent. A life spent really knowing the bible is a life well wasted. There's a question in here for y'all somewhere... ah yes, any Christians (or likewise believers in God) agree that they don't need all the shackles of organised religion to tell them how to love God and how God loves us? ~ Org. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein Last edited by orgaelin; Apr 4, 2005 at 07:01 pm.

Apr 9, 2005, 12:11 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
LogicaLunatic Hrm... Location: MN Posts: 445	CJ, Try looking at it this way... If your religious leader informed you that God wanted you to carry out any of the above atrocities or any of the ones that the Bible contains... Would you do it? Me? I don't care if God himself commanded me to do it. I wouldn't. Does this mean I'm a little more moral than god? Hrm..... "Statistics show that of those who contract the habit of eating, very few survive." -- Wallace Irwin

Apr 9, 2005, 08:53 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 720	CJ, I'm not exactly following you! I wasn't apologising for the old git - I was attacking him. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Apr 8, 2005, 02:54 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
CJFreeman Igneous Magma Posts: 223	Have you ever read a book? If so, why? Do you think that your post carries with it a subtle irony? That is, do you think that your implied apology againt the Christian God is as full of "all the shackles of organised religion"? And what's so bad about organised religion: the organisation, or the fact that it's religion? Christopher J. Freeman