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Rod · Apr 2, 2005, 12:18 am

Quote:

Quote by: orgaelin

I feel a song coming on... Wizard of Oz... "Hooray the wicked witch is dead!"

Sorry!

Why be such a jackass? If you don't have to say anything for the topic, you should stfu. Seriously, I am not Catholic - but respect doesnt have a religion.

OberonDOtherseid · Apr 2, 2005, 04:22 am

Why do you think he was wicked?

Nono · Apr 2, 2005, 08:15 am

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

My skepticism of Roman doctrine has led me away from ritual, which they love, towards the life of the Spirit of God in my own soul...

I'm an agnostic myself, but I know where you're coming from. If there's one thing that has screwed up some promising religions, it's clergy. And one has never seen clergy on quite the scale served up by the Vatican.

As for ritual, it pretty well amounts to superstition in my view -- not that ritual can't be reassuring to some people in sore need of reassurance in this world.

Here's another conspiracy theory to add to your list:

Quote:

Quote by: Nono

... the life, work and mafia murder of Roberto Calvi, "God's Banker", and the apparent role played in all that by the present pope -- though no one will ever be able to prove it.

Strangely enough, I received Dan Brown's Angels and demons as a birthday gift from my fervently Catholic wife this past week. I have no idea how much serious scholarship -- if any -- lies behind it, but obviously you don't have to be a raving Orangeman to have a healthy dose of skepticism about the Vatican.

Quote:

Quote by: Rod

Why be such a jackass? If you don't have to say anything for the topic, you should stfu. Seriously, I am not Catholic - but respect doesnt have a religion.

I think Org was saying something on-topic, though perhaps not terribly eloquently.
I also think that such respect is misplaced, especially here. In my opinion, clergy gets a bit too much respect it hasn't always earned.

MerlinsByte · Apr 2, 2005, 08:24 am

Quote:

I heard on all those conspiracy shows that there'll be two more popes

__________________

Merlin giddy with lack of sleep replies...I hope, two popes are to come, because if its the only one, we are to be godly undone

No future, as the myans, say after 2012, no name for time, that will be just fine

With ,Jesus and mind of god, but that puts 2000 Oh thirteen, in such a nether world bind...Hee Hee...to me

I am writing a new thread on the next ..and LAST pope (if world events dont radicially change in a number days, but less than an year after aug. 2005)

I hope to get it here this weekend or early next week to clarify why I beleive this.

mb

MerlinsByte · Apr 2, 2005, 08:35 am

Quote:

Quote by: orgaelin
I feel a song coming on... Wizard of Oz... "Hooray the wicked witch is dead!"

Sorry!

Why be such a jackass? If you don't have to say anything for the topic, you should stfu. Seriously, I am not Catholic - but respect doesnt have a religion.

Rod
Why do you think he was wicked?

Merlin muses

Ahh you didn't ask me...but...Many thought the pope was the antichrist prophesied in the KJV bible (a collection of canonized texts)

I have an opinion, but for now will say that I think the RCC is more of an deluded, benevolent einity(1) than wicked...i think..

And its not my wish to offend the pious with my beleifs, as I have been wrong before, many times. I just must beleive what I beleive.

NOTE
benevolent...1 a : marked by or disposed to doing good <a benevolent donor> b : organized for the purpose of doing good <a benevolent society>

mb

__________________

orgaelin · Apr 2, 2005, 01:52 pm

You know, I can be respectful. But like Nono kindly pointed out, respect where it's due!

My local paper came through my door this afternoon carrying the headline "Pope: no hope left"... my wife didn't seem to find it funny when I suggested they had made a typo, and got the P and H reversed... "It should have said "Hope: no pope left!"

Tee hee!

atheist · Apr 2, 2005, 03:08 pm

wow, he died that long ago?

I'm in the US, california and we just heard the news on tv (6 channels on the same thing dangit, i'm missing my power rangers)

gr8fuldaniel · Apr 2, 2005, 04:01 pm

I dont respect the Catholic Cult because so many become complacent in the delusion they have arrived at the house of God, when in fact they should have used spiritual discretion and shunned the evil ones, then continued their steadfast pilgrimage. Challenge the spirits, whether they are "of God". The Pope if he were truly any better than you and me, would have turned over all the baby raping priests to the proper authorities, BEFORE he went on to the next place. Whether the next place for him is heaven or hell is not for us to declare.

Vee · Apr 2, 2005, 08:22 pm

Prophecy of the Popes

on a more related matter, respect should be given to all that die, unless you wish that disrespect to you and yours

bishop · Apr 2, 2005, 08:34 pm

i for one have always had a deep sense of respect for the pope.. perhaps more than any other person i've ever known. from what i'm seeing, it seems that people all over the world, including in the middle east, also respected him very much.

despite his flaws, he always spoke out for the oppressed, the meek and the suffering. he had the courage to apologize for the church's sins, and he treated all people equally, not just catholics.

orgaelin · Apr 3, 2005, 10:49 am

Quote:

Quote by: bishop

...and he treated all people equally

Liar!!

What about women, not being allowed to be priests?! What about Gays, not being allowed to even exist if the pope had his way?! What about peoples' human rights to choose when they have children by using contraception?! What about his being so against any forms of sexuality for his bishops, while at the same time trying to protect those many numbers of his bishops found guilty of sexually abusing and raping children?!

He treated equal people equally. But if you didn't fit the mold, you were just another silly time-waster on your way to hell!

~ Org.

orgaelin · Apr 3, 2005, 10:52 am

Vee, that's actually a good point. I agree with you to an extent. Certainly if I was anywhere nearby I would be fully respectful. But I'm not, and he's not likely to take offence by my comments on this board, so... screw him!

Agent007 · Apr 3, 2005, 10:59 am

Quote:

Pope John Paul II was active as a universal symbol. That is, not only did he bind Catholics all over the world but he also bound religions all over the world through his philanthropic actions

This quote by drpandit pretty much tells it all. POPE JOHN PAUL II was a great man, and hopefully, his legacy and spirit will reside throughout the Catholic Church in the future. The pope embodied the past line of Catholic traditionalism, starting with Jesus and the first pope, St. Peter. The pope embodied the present, with his reaction to current international events and his bond with all peoples. The pope embodied the future, with his hopes and actions for global peace and the ultimate end of all animosity and unethicality. God bless Pope John Paul II. Ad maiorem gloriam dei.

bishop · Apr 3, 2005, 11:05 am

Quote:

What about women, not being allowed to be priests?! What about Gays, not being allowed to even exist if the pope had his way?!

two minor examples imo.. the first is the tradition of the church (and most organized religions). the second - the bible is unambiguous when it comes to gays. maybe you think he should have been a revisionist.. i don't agree with how the pedophile priest issue was handled, although i don't believe he was aware of the issues - the bishops and cardinals certainly were. he removed many of them, and many of these molesters have been imprisoned..

these pigeon-hole examples of yours aren't enough to negate the decades of good work that he's done as far as i'm concerned. fighting for millions upon millions of people who had no voice. respecting all people equally - one of his closest friends was an orthodox jew. and the man had a relationship with god that i think few of us will ever be able to attain. up to 7 hours of prayer every day.. i suspect that you aren't religious and don't have any respect for religion (and religious people), but i'm not like you.

bishop · Apr 3, 2005, 11:08 am

Quote:

Quote by: Agent007

This quote by drpandit pretty much tells it all. POPE JOHN PAUL II was a great man, and hopefully, his legacy and spirit will reside throughout the Catholic Church in the future. The pope embodied the past line of Catholic traditionalism, starting with Jesus and the first pope, St. Peter. The pope embodied the present, with his reaction to current international events and his bond with all peoples. The pope embodied the future, with his hopes and actions for global peace and the ultimate end of all animosity and unethicality. God bless Pope John Paul II. Ad maiorem gloriam dei.

i don't know why.. but every time i'd see him speak, i'd get that tingly feeling.. i distinctly remember his speech preceding the millenium where he spoke out against materialistic greed and selfishness.. promoting peace, sacrifice and humility instead.. he made me proud to be a catholic.

Agent007 · Apr 3, 2005, 11:13 am

I agree with bishop. One particularily moving example of the pope's goodwill is when he visited a large assembly of lepers who I think were somewhere in the Philipines (?...there is a picture of the pope's visit). This action perfectly illustrated Pope John Paul's outreach to all peoples, even the lepers, who are socially rejected for their contagious, flesh-eating illness. The pope did not hate practicing homosexuals, people who use contraceptives, and others; he only disapproved of their unethical behavior. Their behavior is unethical not only by the standards of the Roman Catholic Church but also by humanitarians standards. Drpandit even writes that these humanitarian standards are necessary for human survival; homosexual behavior, for example, may lead to an outbreak of AIDS. Contraceptive use may lead to uncontrolled sexual behavior with many people and perhaps an eventual outbreak of sexual diseases from their inevitable misuse at some point. Nonetheless, the pope was great, and it will be extremely difficult to properly replace Pope John Paul II.

Agent007 · Apr 3, 2005, 11:15 am

I am also proud to be a Roman Catholic.

**Chris the Chees** · Apr 3, 2005, 11:21 am

Personally I am no fan, I'm sorry he died, and I'm sorry he died in such a manner. However, I will not respect his actions. His policy of telling Africans, in the height of the Aids epidemic too not use contraception is one of the greatest displays of awful judgement in history, one which even on par with Mao Zedung’s disastrous economic policies, which also condemned millions to death. This man had the position and influence to save tens of millions of lives. However instead he chose the complete opposite route, and condemned instead of saved tens of millions.

I am sorry, but this man made a terrible mistake, and millions of people have paid for his mistake with a horrific natural holocaust which is worsening by the day, more over, one which could have been prevented.

bishop · Apr 3, 2005, 11:24 am

he probably went to one in the philipines.. he also went to st. lazarus which is near/in cuba.

i disagreed with the pope when it came to contraceptives.. but i can also understand his perspective - and that he was not remotely similar to these fundamentalist protestants like jesse helms who are more like bigots than anything else.

i'm also worried about who they'll choose to replace him. john paul II was one of a kind imo. i'd be interested in learning more about arinze, although the decision is obviously the church's..

Agent007 · Apr 3, 2005, 11:27 am

If he really did tell this information to the Africans, he did so rightly. If he allowed them to use contraceptives, then the entire Catholic ontology would be destroyed. Besides, these Africans should not have even been engaging in unruly sexual behavior. They brought their deaths upon themselves even as the pope had been telling the entire world to be ethical and sexually conservative.

Apr 2, 2005, 04:22 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
OberonDOtherseid Logic Via Reality Posts: 653	Why do you think he was wicked? George Bush kicks ass and takes names in 2005!!

Apr 2, 2005, 01:52 pm	#26 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 704	You know, I can be respectful. But like Nono kindly pointed out, respect where it's due! My local paper came through my door this afternoon carrying the headline "Pope: no hope left"... my wife didn't seem to find it funny when I suggested they had made a typo, and got the P and H reversed... "It should have said "Hope: no pope left!" Tee hee! "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Apr 2, 2005, 03:08 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
atheist life junkie Location: CA Posts: 142	wow, he died that long ago? I'm in the US, california and we just heard the news on tv (6 channels on the same thing dangit, i'm missing my power rangers) Sin is salvation. Without "sin" there wouldn't be a concept for "purity" and without a concept of "purity" one wouldn't be able to enter "heaven."

Apr 2, 2005, 04:01 pm	#28 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	I dont respect the Catholic Cult because so many become complacent in the delusion they have arrived at the house of God, when in fact they should have used spiritual discretion and shunned the evil ones, then continued their steadfast pilgrimage. Challenge the spirits, whether they are "of God". The Pope if he were truly any better than you and me, would have turned over all the baby raping priests to the proper authorities, BEFORE he went on to the next place. Whether the next place for him is heaven or hell is not for us to declare. ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Apr 2, 2005, 08:22 pm	#29 (permalink) (top)
Vee Igneous Magma Posts: 353	Prophecy of the Popes on a more related matter, respect should be given to all that die, unless you wish that disrespect to you and yours Australian Parliamentary Simulator Aussies: Welcome to the Rudd Regime Yanks: Welcome to Hell Now Purgatory. Others: G'day mate.

Apr 2, 2005, 08:34 pm	#30 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	i for one have always had a deep sense of respect for the pope.. perhaps more than any other person i've ever known. from what i'm seeing, it seems that people all over the world, including in the middle east, also respected him very much. despite his flaws, he always spoke out for the oppressed, the meek and the suffering. he had the courage to apologize for the church's sins, and he treated all people equally, not just catholics. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Apr 3, 2005, 10:52 am	#32 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 704	Vee, that's actually a good point. I agree with you to an extent. Certainly if I was anywhere nearby I would be fully respectful. But I'm not, and he's not likely to take offence by my comments on this board, so... screw him! "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Apr 3, 2005, 11:13 am	#36 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	I agree with bishop. One particularily moving example of the pope's goodwill is when he visited a large assembly of lepers who I think were somewhere in the Philipines (?...there is a picture of the pope's visit). This action perfectly illustrated Pope John Paul's outreach to all peoples, even the lepers, who are socially rejected for their contagious, flesh-eating illness. The pope did not hate practicing homosexuals, people who use contraceptives, and others; he only disapproved of their unethical behavior. Their behavior is unethical not only by the standards of the Roman Catholic Church but also by humanitarians standards. Drpandit even writes that these humanitarian standards are necessary for human survival; homosexual behavior, for example, may lead to an outbreak of AIDS. Contraceptive use may lead to uncontrolled sexual behavior with many people and perhaps an eventual outbreak of sexual diseases from their inevitable misuse at some point. Nonetheless, the pope was great, and it will be extremely difficult to properly replace Pope John Paul II.

Apr 3, 2005, 11:15 am	#37 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	I am also proud to be a Roman Catholic.

Apr 3, 2005, 11:21 am	#38 (permalink) (top)
Chris the Chees Moderator Location: Wales Posts: 2,203	Personally I am no fan, I'm sorry he died, and I'm sorry he died in such a manner. However, I will not respect his actions. His policy of telling Africans, in the height of the Aids epidemic too not use contraception is one of the greatest displays of awful judgement in history, one which even on par with Mao Zedung’s disastrous economic policies, which also condemned millions to death. This man had the position and influence to save tens of millions of lives. However instead he chose the complete opposite route, and condemned instead of saved tens of millions. I am sorry, but this man made a terrible mistake, and millions of people have paid for his mistake with a horrific natural holocaust which is worsening by the day, more over, one which could have been prevented. Society may be formed so as to exist without crime, without poverty, […] no obstacle whatsoever intervenes at this moment except ignorance to prevent such a state of society. Robert Owen Last edited by Chris the Chees; Apr 3, 2005 at 11:25 am.

Apr 3, 2005, 11:24 am	#39 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	he probably went to one in the philipines.. he also went to st. lazarus which is near/in cuba. i disagreed with the pope when it came to contraceptives.. but i can also understand his perspective - and that he was not remotely similar to these fundamentalist protestants like jesse helms who are more like bigots than anything else. i'm also worried about who they'll choose to replace him. john paul II was one of a kind imo. i'd be interested in learning more about arinze, although the decision is obviously the church's.. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Apr 3, 2005, 11:27 am	#40 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	If he really did tell this information to the Africans, he did so rightly. If he allowed them to use contraceptives, then the entire Catholic ontology would be destroyed. Besides, these Africans should not have even been engaging in unruly sexual behavior. They brought their deaths upon themselves even as the pope had been telling the entire world to be ethical and sexually conservative.