Fate vs. Choice

[toal]

In my previous post, I talked about the purpose of life being simple: to choose. After having thought about what the purpose of life is, I also thought about fate versus choice.

How many of the decisions that we make come about as a result of the way in which our experiences (the way we were raised) have shaped us as people? I remember as a kid, i would sometimes hear things along the line of "well you would do the same thing if you were me". Now remembering that phrase, it really got me thinking. If i was another person, would I be in the same place as they are now? If I was born as William Gates, would I now be the incredibly successful computer genius that he is, or would I have run his existence into the ground? Suppose you were anyone else. If you were born someone else, would you have any choice but to make the same decisions that they have?

In this way I can see that perhaps it is by fate that we are all in the places that we currently are. Our states of being have been derived from the choices that we have made. However, why did we make such choices in the first place? Are we a mere by-product of events that have occured in our lifetimes?

What do you think? Fate, or choice? Why or why not? I need some more input that just my own thoughts. It is 3 AM here, so I hope my message is not confusing...

[Samildanach]

Its definitely fate with the illusion of choice.
Basically once the universes state was set everything else follows in a preset pattern ticking like a pendulum. Can the pendulum choose to move out of its path? No it can't anymore than you or I can.
You might say but I can choose to do anything. Realistically you are presented with a series of choices about anything but you will only ever choose one choice which makes sense to you. So ultimately what makes things make sense to you? Your past experience of previously made choices....back to pendulum.

[Lilith]

Karma? Past lives? That maybe why people make the choices they do...relying on past experiences...remebered or not. The choices that make sense to them or make sense to thier soul's purpose in this incarnation.

[syracusa]

Fate - for the most part, it gives us the big frame.

Choice - in the small scheme of things. We can move from point A to point B by virtue of our choice but in reality, both point A and point B are within the same fate-created frame and don't differ much after all.
It's mainly an illusion of choice ...but hey, better than no illusion at all!

[toal]

syracusa - I understand your thought process on that one, but you guys are kind of missing my question. I guess my question may have no definite answer that we as people can globaly reach an agreement upon, but for humors sake lets go over it again.

Why do you make certain choices? Why am I choosing to type to a group of people that I have never met instead of doing one the millions of other things that I could be done right now? There are two options: either I do have choice and I can make a difference in this place through those choices, or do to the environment in which I was brought up in, I have no choice but to respond to situations based on what I have already seen. Again, what if I was someone we all know, like lets say George Bush. Would I have made all the choices that he has made, and end up exactly like him, or would I even have the chance to fuck that life up?

So maybe I can rephrase all this: Is there such a thing as a consciousness (choice), or are we all pretty much pre-programmed robots who run the race of life with an illusion of choice, yet whos fates have already been sealed? If our fates have been sealed, who, or what for those less religious types, sealed them? Any evidence for fate, or choice? Try to make a valid and factual arguement for your case, and if you cannot be factual, at least have a sound arguement.

[jeffl]

Quote by: toal Is there such a thing as a consciousness (choice), or are we all pretty much pre-programmed robots who run the race of life with an illusion of choice, yet whos fates have already been sealed? If our fates have been sealed, who, or what for those less religious types, sealed them? Any evidence for fate, or choice? Try to make a valid and factual arguement for your case, and if you cannot be factual, at least have a sound arguement.

I take it you are asking if we, as conscious beings, are epiphenomenal; that we are a consequence of our physical perdicament alone?

I think it might be that we are almost epiphenomenal. The arrangements of the stars, and especially the moon, had a significant influence on how our first words were formed. It is conceivable that someone could fiddle with the celestial symphony on one hand and look at the output of the human effort on the other, and set a desired result. I don't mean to describe the nature of God or Being in anyway; only to suggest a mechanism for some sort of teleological structure. If this is the case, then we would look like epiphenomenal beings at first glance; but upon further reflection i think it's clear how we might be more than that.

Also, in such a structure it would be the case that

Quote by: syracusa We can move from point A to point B by virtue of our choice but in reality, both point A and point B are within the same fate-created frame and don't differ much after all.

while at the same time there would be the case of extraordinary circumstances, where heros are born. And it occurs to me that traditional spirituality is about making heros when needed; atleast in some measure.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I used to not believe in "fate" and all that but....

After my divorce and the steps leading to meeting my Fiance... I don't believe in fortuitious coincidences like that.

I found her profile online in a dating service... check it out, you tell me it was just luck:

I only had a profile and such because my friends urged me too, I'm a net geek and what better way to meet people then through a medium I love.

She wanted to take some personality test offered on said site but had no desire to have a profile up, but to take the quiz, she had too. So she put it up for shits and giggles.

She and I are both conservatives (in Maine no less) both military brats, both gamers, both avid fans of the same general movies and TV shows. And we are madly in love, had I not met her, guys... lemme tell ya, I was looking over the abyss of self destruction, and meeting her turned me from that.


After all of that... I believe fate plays a hand at times. Really trace your steps back from childhood to now, did you get where you are by mere chance, how many choices did you make were truly YOUR choices and how many were forced on you?