Does God Exist?

[LogicaLunatic]

I'm merely curious to find out how we all believe. Please read the question and answers carefully.

[Impenitent]

it cannot be known if it exists, and it cannot be known if it doesn't exist... to claim that it doesn't exist with certainity is making a hasty judgement... to claim it exists with no empirical evidence is a leap of faith...

[Suburbanite]

That is exactly what it is supposed to be.
I seem to have been the first to have voted YES. I don't belong to any organized religion, nor do I pray or even think about God. But I do know THE exists, empirically perhaps not, but empirical knowledge puts itself into question so I wouldn't dream of trusting such a tool.

[i_am_a_n00bie]

I'm not much of a physicist, but if you do a quick search in Google for "Laws of Thermodynamics" you'll quickly find a summary.

The first law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can merely change state. The second law talks about entropy. If you put two and two together, you'll quickly realise that these two facts mean that the universe CANNOT have existed forever; something must have created it. Indeed, scientists call the moment of the big bang "creation". I find it very difficult to believe that in an entropic multiverse, the universe could have just *happened*. Much easier to believe is that there is some eternal order behind our existance.

[Suburbanite]

"The first law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can merely change state."

That doesn't seem to agree with you as much as you make it sound like it does.

[i_am_a_n00bie]

It doesn't sound like it, no. That is, until you remember that the laws of thermodynamics apply to the universe that we live in, and not to those without. If you follow our combined arguments to their logical conclusion, you will get a couple of points:

Fact: The universe came from somewhere.

Fact: At a certain point in time (point zero, presumably) the universe began. Before this point, there was no physical universe.

Fact: Thermodynamics states that the universe cannot be created from within.

Inference: The universe, therefore, must have been created from without.

[LogicaLunatic]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
it cannot be known if it exists, and it cannot be known if it doesn't exist... to claim that it doesn't exist with certainity is making a hasty judgement... to claim it exists with no empirical evidence is a leap of faith...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>
Didn't ask whether you know, only whether you believe. If you answered "I Don't Know" it implies that you don't know what you believe.

Just a thought :)

LogicaLunatic

[LogicaLunatic]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (i_am_a_n00bie,)
It doesn't sound like it, no. That is, until you remember that the laws of thermodynamics apply to the universe that we live in, and not to those without. If you follow our combined arguments to their logical conclusion, you will get a couple of points:

Fact: The universe came from somewhere.

Fact: At a certain point in time (point zero, presumably) the universe began. Before this point, there was no physical universe.

Fact: Thermodynamics states that the universe cannot be created from within.

Inference: The universe, therefore, must have been created from without.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Your inference is correct if and only if the facts you state are true. The first two "facts" are in fact nothing of the sort. They are assumptions or hopes or wishes. We don't know if there was a point where no universe existed. Given that and the laws of thermodynamics the only safe assumption is that the universe HAS existed forever.

That is of course until the idea of an ekpyrotic universe came along which fits quite neatly into the mathematical model.
Also see: Before the Big Bang (Discover Magazine)

This also begs the question, "What created God?"

[Paavo]

I voted yes.

Now I don't believe in "him" or "her" or even "it" really, I believe in something that we are not capable of understanding, fully at least. Even if there was some divine dude up there pulling some strings, it'd raise the question "well, who made the one that made us then?" etc etc (as LogicaLunatic said). I believe, that in what ever kind of 'larger picture' we're just a mere detail of, we'll never know. Even if we could some day, it won't be very soon. Now I think that believing in a book about who made us is pure silliness, laziness to think for one self, really.
But when people say "it just happened", they're not sounding any better than the ones going on about jesus or [insert fairytale character here] in my opinion. So what was before all this then? "Uhm...nothing". Well what the hell is "nothing"? So as long as science fails to explain these things, I'll leave it be and keep an open mind about it. But any sort of man-written scribble?....no way.

[Pooeypants]

Might as well ask if flying pink elephants exist...we've got no evidence for either. Although the latter is more believable.

[Plaything48]

'The first law states that energy cannot be created or destroyed; it can merely change state. The second law talks about entropy. If you put two and two together, you'll quickly realise that these two facts mean that the universe CANNOT have existed forever.'

This law only applies on a large scale. In the world of quantum physics, this law does not apply, and quantum physics is what we deal with in the big bang.

Also, just to let you know, God isn't to happy about this poll, so don't be surprised if he smites you :)

[Suburbanite]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Paavo,)
I voted yes.

Now I don't believe in "him" or "her" or even "it" really,
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

I simply call God THE. I think it works. It explains him better than any pro-noun could.

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (i_am_a_n00bie,)

Fact: The universe came from somewhere.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

If energy and matter can not be created then no, there is no starting point. But you’re going about your faith the wrong way regardless.

[nature of reality]

I don't believe in god. Athiest.

If grant intellectual ambilivalence to every notion, you negate the power of the mind. Plus the whole "can you prove he DOESN"T exist" arguement is crap--it shifts the burden of proof. Things dont' exist until proven otherwise.


Im not terribly militant about it though. I would convert to just about any goofy ass religion for pussy. /em starts praying to Mecca.

[labotomy]

THE thought is right....

as humans we create our extenal(physical) reality in thought (THE) before it manifests,proving THE exsistence of the omnipresent(spiritual).

The confusion is caused by our evolution into the ego mind that we need in order to survive.
This conflict creates our purpose in nature.

[eburchelli]

God exists if you believe in (him?). God is a concept that requires faith. If people are unable to find a good enough reason not to believe, they crumble under the pressure that exists to believe. It's all around us, wherever we go. Often it's just easier to follow the crowd.

I don't believe in God as the creator of Heaven and Earth, or the universe. This takes too much faith for me. I don't believe in the worship of idols, which is what churches are full of and what prayers are said to.

I am too logically minded to buy into religion.

[Suburbanite]

Everyone has a religion, be it Christianity, Money, or Atheism. You have to have faith; it is what human beings rely on. Some people, many people, have their faith in reason... but I think others know better.

[Section 8]

The main reason why I don't believe in God.
The existence of God negates free will
If God is omniscient and omnipotent, then God must see everything, including one's future. Imagine as if you could look at a film strip, and see everything. God knows whether or not I'll get a sandwhich 20 minutes from now, there is nothing I can do to stop that, since God is omnipotent. My fate has been decided every since God created the universe, thus predestination.

[Suburbanite]

That being true or not, how does that actually affect you?

[Impenitent]

the existence of evil and omnibenevolence is also a fun one...

[Immortalist]

Hard Core Atheist. More specifically an Immortalist.

Some thoughts, but it's too late to ellaborate. NEED SLEEP.

1. I refuse to consider unfalsifiable claims.

2. In order to debunk religion one must have a firm understanding of our evolutionary psychology.

3. Religion is strictly a matter of cultural transmission.

4. Religions are contageous memeplexes (mind viruses).