Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Paavo · Feb 19, 2004, 03:42 pm

Just a random question in between;

Why do people call god "He" or "him"? Does god have a sex?

.......back on topic.

Poetic_Justice · Feb 19, 2004, 03:47 pm

the He or Him is referring to the Fatherly nature of God... it is not trying to say that God is this sex or God is that sex, as sex is something unique to beings which procreate(also, we're all women when we start out, so that would be more likely if God were a sex)
so yeah, it has to do with how God is our Father. Just like Jesus is not actually a light, and yet He calls Himself The Light... It is anthropromorphisis(sp?) showin u parts of His true nature in analogy that we can understand.

Mozart1220 · Feb 19, 2004, 03:55 pm

All I know is that until someone proves beyond a shadow of doubt the existance of God, I will refuse to use religion as a basis for deciding whether a person is good or bad. If two gay people want to get married, it doesn't affect me one little bit. Why should I make an effort to stop them?

Anniee · Feb 19, 2004, 03:58 pm

Who says they should be stopped? The force of law is only reasonable for cases where someone is encroaching upon another person or their property.

Spyder Jerusalem · Feb 19, 2004, 04:05 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (MRSEinstein,)
TO LIBERTYMINDED:

I think you are rather close-minded in your approach to Christians and what they believe. All Christians do not agree upon the same things as stated in the Bible or even things that occur in churches. I see that you did a little research on the origin of the Bible, but even in that, you are lacking the full understanding and the bigger picture that your explanation tends to allude to. THE BIBLE was a human product, divinely inspired, yet also only written by humans. Since we humans are prone to make mistakes and to complete things with error, of course the Bible will have some things wrong with it. I see that point. But being a Christian helps me to understand that even though the Bible is not inerrant, our God is! He is not a human product. We did not get to mess Him up, as we have obviously messed up this beautiful world that He created for us (due to our free will).
Secondly, I don't believe in the whole "fire insurance" as being a way to convert others to Christ. When I got saved, I did not do it just to get out of going to hell and eternal damnation and spiritual torture. I got saved because I loved God, and wanted His touch and spirit in my life. I was not stating earlier that people should get saved for that reason. My logic is that since I am saved, I am a lot happier that I get to go to Heaven someday... I believe in Heaven and Hell. It is not a decision for me to have to make whether or not I am going to Heaven or Hell. Since I follow God, I get to spend an eternity with Him.
Thirdly, I do not see the use in name-calling... That is very immature... "you 'mental crutch' using dipwads"
Yeah, you really accomplished something with that. Very funny.
Lastly, you raised the points about Noah and the arc and other stories... It does not matter to me whether they are fully accurate or not. I just am sooo thankful to God that we are still here. Who says that God was finished creating animals and other things before the flood? That is something that no one really knows about. God could have just as easily have created more animals after the flood... Either way, having them on the arc was all managed by God. He made sure that everything would go smoothly.
You still haven't answered the question I asked earlier...
Why is it so horrible to believe in God?
What does it hurt?
The answer, my brother, is that true Christianity hurts no one. God is perfect and you are not. He has better plans than you do. Get off your prideful attitude, and realize that someone is over you and is the true creator of the universe. He needs no evidence for He is God! Science can not prove God completely, because science is even below Him. We are thinking with closed minds and only on a humanistic level here. "Burden of Proof"---"Bull". Get off that. YOU and no other scientist can ever be as wise as GOD! Sorry, no offense to those of you that think that you have to have a scientific explanation for everything... We can't even decide on a good cure for AIDS, let alone the power of Almighty God. So I am just suggesting that maybe you should think a little more with your hearts and not your stubbornness and rather small intelligence levels. Oh yeah, you still haven't proven to your case to me yet. God exists!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Now this shit's REALLY funny!
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I see that you did a little research on the origin of the Bible<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Oh, you mean, like, the TRUTH, right MRSEinstein?
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
but even in that, you are lacking the full understanding and the bigger picture<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
So, in other words, though his history lesson to you as regards the Council of Nicea and their fabrication of "The Bible" out of hastily cobbled together incomplete treatises with little historical value or for that matter truth to them; it has no bearing on the "truth" of the matter?
JESUS H.CHRIST IN A CHARIOT-DRIVEN FUCKIN'SIDECAR!
What the hell is it gonna take to get through to ya, huh?
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
that your explanation tends to allude to.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Explainations don't "allude" to anything, they explain.
Clearly and concisely, with little question as to their validity.
Just as this explaination was given.
All else is deceit.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
THE BIBLE was a human product, divinely inspired<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Prove it!
The truth is provable.
Period, whereas the idea of "divine inspiration" is not.
QED, untruth. Conjecture. Myth.
That is elementary, my dear Einstein.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Since we humans are prone to make mistakes and to complete things with error, of course the Bible will have some things wrong with it.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Fuckin' hilarious!
Who's your writer?
Ever thought of doin' standup?
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
But being a Christian helps me to understand that even though the Bible is not inerrant, our God is!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
How can a now proven pack of lies, deceit, myth, and outright propaganda help you to "understand" anything, Einstein?
The truth will set you free, while lies breed ignorance and complacency borne of ignorance.
And, whattaya mean by "our god", huh?
What makes YOU think, first off, that YOUR god is THE god, huh?
Maybe "god" is actually the god of the people of Tau Ceti, who just happen to think humans are quite tasty, and you've been deluding yourself all these years.
What if "god" is actually Shiva, and you shoulda been a fuckin' Hindu, huh?
How egotistical the christers are, and the hindus and the muslims.
I doubt that any REAL "god" could possibly be that egotistical and still be "god".
Don't you?
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
He is not a human product. We did not get to mess Him up, as we have obviously messed up this beautiful world that He created for us (due to our free will).<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Bullshit, prove it.
Prove it, prove it, prove it.
Otherwise it is superstition and myth, not "truth".
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Why is it so horrible to believe in God?
What does it hurt?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Because its ignorant, superstitious and primitive.
Any other questions?
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
God is perfect<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
See "prove it" above!
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
He has better plans than you do.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
And again.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Get off your prideful attitude, and realize that someone is over you and is the true creator of the universe.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
There is no evidence of that, so get off your moralistic high horse and accept that the universe is a purposeless and empty place and your place in it is no more or less important than a grain of sand.
Until there is proof, that is the truth.
Sorry to disapoint you, Einteiny, but that's how it works.
Blind faith goes nowhere, and fast, man.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
We are thinking with closed minds and only on a humanistic level here.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Try opening your mind to fact, babe.
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
"Burden of Proof"---"Bull". Get off that. YOU and no other scientist can ever be as wise as GOD!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Now you're just bein' silly.
The computer you use works because science works!
Everything about your existance now, on this Earth, you enjoy because science is the best thing goin' for mankind. If the christers had had their way about it, we'd still be serfs in fief to some feudal lord!
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
So I am just suggesting that maybe you should think a little more with your hearts and not your stubbornness and rather small intelligence levels. Oh yeah, you still haven't proven to your case to me yet. God exists!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Lalalalalalalalalala!
The number thirteen is unlucky!
Breaking mirrors brings seven bad years!
Never light three on a match!
God exists!

Superstitions all.
Here: Merriam-Webster Online
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Main Entry: su·per·sti·tion
Pronunciation: "sü-p&r-'sti-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English supersticion, from Middle French, from Latin superstition-, superstitio, from superstit-, superstes standing over (as witness or survivor), from super- + stare to stand -- more at STAND
1 a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2 : a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary <hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Get it?

libertyminded · Feb 19, 2004, 04:45 pm

It doesn't stop with gay marriage. Here in America we have prostitution laws that screw over innocent people every day and drug laws responsible for imprisoning millions of people guilty of nothing more than altering their perception of reality. We have a ban on stem cell research that could be well on it's way to curing horrible conditions like brain degeneration and para/qudraplegia. And we have reams of people operating under the assumption that world is comming to an end one day soon at which point they'll be instantly removed from the face of the Earth (needless to say... not many of these people are all that interested in planning for Earths long term sustainability).

So when all you Christians die and go to Heaven, what do you look like? I'm assuming that since God created man in his own image that you'll retain some sort of prairie ape characteristics. Do you exist for all eternity as an adult or as a kid or just whatever state you're in when you die?

Why did "God" tell all of us to cover up our naughty parts? Didn't he create our bodies? Shouldn't we be proud of his masterfull design... or did certain parts of our bodies become evil all of the sudden after Adam and Eve ate some fruit or something (right, don't you dare eat the fruit of knowledge if you want to remain perfect, ignorance is bliss)?

Jesus Christ!!! I could go on with questions like this ALL DAY!!!

Were there 2 Polynesians, Native Americans, Blacks, Caucasians, Arabs, Indians and Pygmies on the Arc with Noah?

I know some of these seem redundant but as of yet I've never gotten ONE of you Christians to come up with a resonable answer to ANY of them.

Why would God have some plan for all of his beloved children to "return" to him and then only make this plan well known and popular in a limited part of the world to a limited number of people (and a small minority I might add)?

Why would God want you to pray at all, doesn't he know everything you're thinking before you do?

What makes all of you take Abraham at his word? Do you know the history of Abraham and his travels? Do you even know how the Jewish tribal Gods system worked back in those days? Do you know that all Jews used to believe in multiple Gods and that Abraham went around trying to convince everyone that there was only one God, El, and eventually the idea caught on because the Jews were sick of having to change the Gods they worshiped every time they got relocated (and in those days the Jews got relocated quite a bit)?

How can anyone say that Abraham and the three religions he spawned are any less a product of social systems naturally creating a belief system then the religions of the Hindu, Shinto, Druids, Native Americans? You can't.

Lighten up everyone. There's no reason to believe in some ancient book filled with obviously fabricated stories. You don't need to live forever. You don't need to have some invisible jerk telling you what to do.

For those of you that were athiest at one time and swithced over to religion, I'm sorry something really painfull happened to you that made it hard for you to let go of someone, but do you really want to think that you're conscience will exist forever? Don't you realize that eventually you will be sick of everything including sitting around and playing a harp for the all powerful creator of the universe. What could you possibly want to do FOREVER?

Just a little critical thinking folks... that's all it takes.

Feb 19, 2004, 04:53 pm

All I can say is there ain't no athiests in a foxhole.

Spyder Jerusalem · Feb 19, 2004, 05:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (URnotmeRU,)
All I can say is there ain't no athiests in a foxhole. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>
This kind o' glib shit is meaningless.
I'm an atheist.
And I've been in a "foxhole".
Being shot at, with threat of death looming.
Didn't change my mind one bit.
Those "foxhole conversions" are simply fear.
Fear of death and pain.
An animalistic response to a frightening situation.
So, gimme a fuckin' break with this crap and say something that actually means something, okay?

tman_ndsu08 · Feb 19, 2004, 06:03 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Spyder Jerusalem,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (URnotmeRU,)
All I can say is there ain't no athiests in a foxhole. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>
This kind o' glib shit is meaningless.
I'm an atheist.
And I've been in a "foxhole".
Being shot at, with threat of death looming.
Didn't change my mind one bit.
Those "foxhole conversions" are simply fear.
Fear of death and pain.
An animalistic response to a frightening situation.
So, gimme a fuckin' break with this crap and say something that actually means something, okay?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I hope you weren't trying to say you weren't afraid of death.

I think hope is a great thing to have, but being realistic is better.

PaulOtt · Feb 19, 2004, 06:46 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
From your point of view, it's a futile argument, so you can keep your blind faith and I'll keep to logic and reason. Now we're all happy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>It would appear that we both keep our faith in our ways of perceiving the world.

Claiming that God does not exist, should He choose to not fulfill the requirements of the scientific method, is not logical, however.

**Pooeypants** · Feb 19, 2004, 06:48 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PaulOtt,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
From your point of view, it's a futile argument, so you can keep your blind faith and I'll keep to logic and reason. Now we're all happy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>It would appear that we both keep our faith in our ways of perceiving the world.

Claiming that God does not exist, should He choose to not fulfill the requirements of the scientific method, is not logical, however.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
But I do have the right to assert a flying pink elephant doesn't if it doesn't fulfill the scientific requirements to do so.

m5lange1 · Feb 19, 2004, 06:55 pm

My sincerre aplogies Anniee. The quote I attributed to you was indeed from Libertyminded.

I shall edit and note my error on my post.

The question, however still stands only now I am asking Liberty.....

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted by
Libertyminded
"for those of us that have spent endless hours informing ourselves in regard to REAL information and facts, the arguments from those of you that base your undestanding of this world on your subjective emotions are nothing more than the quiveling of inferior minds"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the phrase "inferior minds". Could you please clarify inferior to whom, or whose if you prefer.?

ethyl · Feb 19, 2004, 07:45 pm

Something very interesting is going to happen soon.

First I must explain. When an atheist states he/she does not believe in God. First premise - there is a God - it's just that she/he does not believe in "it."

Does that make sense to anyone?

Okay, so with that out of the way. We are on the threshold of one of the biggest outpouring of the Holy Spirit in several hundred years.

Folks will be walking around saying, "can I get that too." Trust me (smile) I do know. If you want more info let me know. My field is Bible research.

PaulOtt · Feb 19, 2004, 08:05 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
But I do have the right to assert a flying pink elephant doesn't if it doesn't fulfill the scientific requirements to do so.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>The scientific method is good for some things, and it is not good for some things. Do the characteristics of the subject allow it to be seen, heard, tasted, felt, or smelled in impersonal, controlled, and repeatable experiments?

Most often it is the atheists that claim God has characteristics that would cause Him to be revealed in such a test. It is all quite illogical.

tman_ndsu08 · Feb 19, 2004, 09:08 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PaulOtt,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
But I do have the right to assert a flying pink elephant doesn't if it doesn't fulfill the scientific requirements to do so.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>The scientific method is good for some things, and it is not good for some things. Do the characteristics of the subject allow it to be seen, heard, tasted, felt, or smelled in impersonal, controlled, and repeatable experiments?

Most often it is the atheists that claim God has characteristics that would cause Him to be revealed in such a test. It is all quite illogical.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

The argument that God exists in such a way that makes him impossible to detect is SOOOO convenient....

Paavo · Feb 19, 2004, 09:26 pm

<a few beers post>

What I fail to see is how christian people can be so sure that christianity is the right religion of all others available. To me they're all more or less naive and have no credit, but answer me this:
Isn't it strange how you all have "found [the christian] god" to be true, when there are SO many other options out there. Isn't it pretty obvious that you believe in the same god as your parents do?
How come a human being needs to be told what god to believe in, if any?
Play along with me, christian believer;
Let's say you were born in a muslim city somewhere, with their respective religion surrounding you since you were born. Don't you think you'd believe in what your parents tell you to?

With that said, how can you be so sure that your god is the right one? A simple answer will do.

As for myself;
My mother's more or less christian, and believes in god. She prays and all that jazz. My dad's a scientist, and does not believe in any god. They both told me what they believed to me when I was a kid. They never "pushed" any beliefs on me. It didn't take long for me to figure out that the christian faith is nothing more than fairytales (like any other man-made religion). I also came to the conclusion that we do not get all answers from science. So, I became agnostic in my views.
So anyway, why wouldn't your beliefs be in every way linked to what was told to you, even pushed on you? Religious people are so happy to tell everyone that "GOD LIVES" and that stuff....but did you come to that conclusion or do you believe just because of your enviroment and the way your parents raised you?

</a few beers post>

PaulOtt · Feb 19, 2004, 09:29 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,)
The argument that God exists in such a way that makes him impossible to detect is SOOOO convenient....<hr size="1" /></blockquote>I have not said He is impossible to detect.

I have said He is possible to detect.

If there were a God--a God more concerned with your morals than your knowledge--how could you try to make contact with Him?

You don't have to go into a church to know God. You don't have to climb to the top of a mountain to know God. You don't have to conduct a science test to know God.

It begins with humble sincerity.

tman_ndsu08 · Feb 19, 2004, 10:25 pm

I can only assume your talking about faith.

I'll agree that faith is the whole point of religion....another convenient argument.

PaulOtt · Feb 19, 2004, 10:30 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Paavo,)
With that said, how can you be so sure that your god is the right one? A simple answer will do.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>God gave me a very basic, fundamental understanding of Him and life. I read. Some supports. Some doesn't.

libertyminded · Feb 19, 2004, 11:39 pm

While the "Yes" line is pulling ahead I have yet to see any answers to all of the questions I posed in my recent posts. Is there no Christian out there with enough witts to dispell my blasphamy?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
So when all you Christians die and go to Heaven, what do you look like? I'm assuming that since God created man in his own image that you'll retain some sort of prairie ape characteristics. Do you exist for all eternity as an adult or as a kid or just whatever state you're in when you die?

Why did "God" tell all of us to cover up our naughty parts? Didn't he create our bodies? Shouldn't we be proud of his masterfull design... or did certain parts of our bodies become evil all of the sudden after Adam and Eve ate some fruit or something (right, don't you dare eat the fruit of knowledge if you want to remain perfect, ignorance is bliss)?

Jesus Christ!!! I could go on with questions like this ALL DAY!!!

Were there 2 Polynesians, Native Americans, Blacks, Caucasians, Arabs, Indians and Pygmies on the Arc with Noah?

I know some of these seem redundant but as of yet I've never gotten ONE of you Christians to come up with a resonable answer to ANY of them.

Why would God have some plan for all of his beloved children to "return" to him and then only make this plan well known and popular in a limited part of the world to a limited number of people (and a small minority I might add)?

Why would God want you to pray at all, doesn't he know everything you're thinking before you do?

What makes all of you take Abraham at his word? Do you know the history of Abraham and his travels? Do you even know how the Jewish tribal Gods system worked back in those days? Do you know that all Jews used to believe in multiple Gods and that Abraham went around trying to convince everyone that there was only one God, El, and eventually the idea caught on because the Jews were sick of having to change the Gods they worshiped every time they got relocated (and in those days the Jews got relocated quite a bit)?

How can anyone say that Abraham and the three religions he spawned are any less a product of social systems naturally creating a belief system then the religions of the Hindu, Shinto, Druids, Native Americans? You can't.

Lighten up everyone. There's no reason to believe in some ancient book filled with obviously fabricated stories. You don't need to live forever. You don't need to have some invisible jerk telling you what to do.

For those of you that were athiest at one time and swithced over to religion, I'm sorry something really painfull happened to you that made it hard for you to let go of someone, but do you really want to think that you're conscience will exist forever? Don't you realize that eventually you will be sick of everything including sitting around and playing a harp for the all powerful creator of the universe. What could you possibly want to do FOREVER?
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Anyone?

View Poll Results: Do you believe that a god exists?
Yes	72	45.86%
No	58	36.94%
I don't know	27	17.20%
Voters: 157. You may not vote

Feb 19, 2004, 03:55 pm	#203 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	All I know is that until someone proves beyond a shadow of doubt the existance of God, I will refuse to use religion as a basis for deciding whether a person is good or bad. If two gay people want to get married, it doesn't affect me one little bit. Why should I make an effort to stop them? Big Jr is watching you!

Feb 19, 2004, 03:58 pm	#204 (permalink) (top)
Anniee Mr. Queen Posts: 231	Who says they should be stopped? The force of law is only reasonable for cases where someone is encroaching upon another person or their property. Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest. Mohandas Gandhi

Feb 19, 2004, 04:05 pm	#205 (permalink) (top)
Spyder Jerusalem Molten Ash Location: The City, scoring dope. Posts: 31	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (MRSEinstein,) TO LIBERTYMINDED: I think you are rather close-minded in your approach to Christians and what they believe. All Christians do not agree upon the same things as stated in the Bible or even things that occur in churches. I see that you did a little research on the origin of the Bible, but even in that, you are lacking the full understanding and the bigger picture that your explanation tends to allude to. THE BIBLE was a human product, divinely inspired, yet also only written by humans. Since we humans are prone to make mistakes and to complete things with error, of course the Bible will have some things wrong with it. I see that point. But being a Christian helps me to understand that even though the Bible is not inerrant, our God is! He is not a human product. We did not get to mess Him up, as we have obviously messed up this beautiful world that He created for us (due to our free will). Secondly, I don't believe in the whole "fire insurance" as being a way to convert others to Christ. When I got saved, I did not do it just to get out of going to hell and eternal damnation and spiritual torture. I got saved because I loved God, and wanted His touch and spirit in my life. I was not stating earlier that people should get saved for that reason. My logic is that since I am saved, I am a lot happier that I get to go to Heaven someday... I believe in Heaven and Hell. It is not a decision for me to have to make whether or not I am going to Heaven or Hell. Since I follow God, I get to spend an eternity with Him. Thirdly, I do not see the use in name-calling... That is very immature... "you 'mental crutch' using dipwads" Yeah, you really accomplished something with that. Very funny. Lastly, you raised the points about Noah and the arc and other stories... It does not matter to me whether they are fully accurate or not. I just am sooo thankful to God that we are still here. Who says that God was finished creating animals and other things before the flood? That is something that no one really knows about. God could have just as easily have created more animals after the flood... Either way, having them on the arc was all managed by God. He made sure that everything would go smoothly. You still haven't answered the question I asked earlier... Why is it so horrible to believe in God? What does it hurt? The answer, my brother, is that true Christianity hurts no one. God is perfect and you are not. He has better plans than you do. Get off your prideful attitude, and realize that someone is over you and is the true creator of the universe. He needs no evidence for He is God! Science can not prove God completely, because science is even below Him. We are thinking with closed minds and only on a humanistic level here. "Burden of Proof"---"Bull". Get off that. YOU and no other scientist can ever be as wise as GOD! Sorry, no offense to those of you that think that you have to have a scientific explanation for everything... We can't even decide on a good cure for AIDS, let alone the power of Almighty God. So I am just suggesting that maybe you should think a little more with your hearts and not your stubbornness and rather small intelligence levels. Oh yeah, you still haven't proven to your case to me yet. God exists!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Ha ha ha ha ha! Now this shit's REALLY funny! </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by I see that you did a little research on the origin of the Bible<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Oh, you mean, like, the TRUTH, right MRSEinstein? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by but even in that, you are lacking the full understanding and the bigger picture<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> So, in other words, though his history lesson to you as regards the Council of Nicea and their fabrication of "The Bible" out of hastily cobbled together incomplete treatises with little historical value or for that matter truth to them; it has no bearing on the "truth" of the matter? JESUS H.CHRIST IN A CHARIOT-DRIVEN FUCKIN'SIDECAR! What the hell is it gonna take to get through to ya, huh? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by that your explanation tends to allude to.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Explainations don't "allude" to anything, they explain. Clearly and concisely, with little question as to their validity. Just as this explaination was given. All else is deceit. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by THE BIBLE was a human product, divinely inspired<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Prove it! The truth is provable. Period, whereas the idea of "divine inspiration" is not. QED, untruth. Conjecture. Myth. That is elementary, my dear Einstein. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Since we humans are prone to make mistakes and to complete things with error, of course the Bible will have some things wrong with it.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Fuckin' hilarious! Who's your writer? Ever thought of doin' standup? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by But being a Christian helps me to understand that even though the Bible is not inerrant, our God is!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> How can a now proven pack of lies, deceit, myth, and outright propaganda help you to "understand" anything, Einstein? The truth will set you free, while lies breed ignorance and complacency borne of ignorance. And, whattaya mean by "our god", huh? What makes YOU think, first off, that YOUR god is THE god, huh? Maybe "god" is actually the god of the people of Tau Ceti, who just happen to think humans are quite tasty, and you've been deluding yourself all these years. What if "god" is actually Shiva, and you shoulda been a fuckin' Hindu, huh? How egotistical the christers are, and the hindus and the muslims. I doubt that any REAL "god" could possibly be that egotistical and still be "god". Don't you? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by He is not a human product. We did not get to mess Him up, as we have obviously messed up this beautiful world that He created for us (due to our free will).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Bullshit, prove it. Prove it, prove it, prove it. Otherwise it is superstition and myth, not "truth". </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Why is it so horrible to believe in God? What does it hurt?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Because its ignorant, superstitious and primitive. Any other questions? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by God is perfect<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> See "prove it" above! </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by He has better plans than you do.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> And again. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Get off your prideful attitude, and realize that someone is over you and is the true creator of the universe.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> There is no evidence of that, so get off your moralistic high horse and accept that the universe is a purposeless and empty place and your place in it is no more or less important than a grain of sand. Until there is proof, that is the truth. Sorry to disapoint you, Einteiny, but that's how it works. Blind faith goes nowhere, and fast, man. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by We are thinking with closed minds and only on a humanistic level here.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Try opening your mind to fact, babe. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by "Burden of Proof"---"Bull". Get off that. YOU and no other scientist can ever be as wise as GOD!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Now you're just bein' silly. The computer you use works because science works! Everything about your existance now, on this Earth, you enjoy because science is the best thing goin' for mankind. If the christers had had their way about it, we'd still be serfs in fief to some feudal lord! </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by So I am just suggesting that maybe you should think a little more with your hearts and not your stubbornness and rather small intelligence levels. Oh yeah, you still haven't proven to your case to me yet. God exists!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Lalalalalalalalalala! The number thirteen is unlucky! Breaking mirrors brings seven bad years! Never light three on a match! God exists! Superstitions all. Here: Merriam-Webster Online </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Main Entry: su·per·sti·tion Pronunciation: "sü-p&r-'sti-sh&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English supersticion, from Middle French, from Latin superstition-, superstitio, from superstit-, superstes standing over (as witness or survivor), from super- + stare to stand -- more at STAND 1 a : a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation b : an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition 2 : a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Get it? "A Kenyan man once said to me, 'You can get used to anything when money's involved.' He used to stick mice up his ass for twenty bucks a time."

Feb 19, 2004, 04:45 pm	#206 (permalink) (top)
libertyminded Molten Ash Location: Seattle, Washington USA Posts: 69	It doesn't stop with gay marriage. Here in America we have prostitution laws that screw over innocent people every day and drug laws responsible for imprisoning millions of people guilty of nothing more than altering their perception of reality. We have a ban on stem cell research that could be well on it's way to curing horrible conditions like brain degeneration and para/qudraplegia. And we have reams of people operating under the assumption that world is comming to an end one day soon at which point they'll be instantly removed from the face of the Earth (needless to say... not many of these people are all that interested in planning for Earths long term sustainability). So when all you Christians die and go to Heaven, what do you look like? I'm assuming that since God created man in his own image that you'll retain some sort of prairie ape characteristics. Do you exist for all eternity as an adult or as a kid or just whatever state you're in when you die? Why did "God" tell all of us to cover up our naughty parts? Didn't he create our bodies? Shouldn't we be proud of his masterfull design... or did certain parts of our bodies become evil all of the sudden after Adam and Eve ate some fruit or something (right, don't you dare eat the fruit of knowledge if you want to remain perfect, ignorance is bliss)? Jesus Christ!!! I could go on with questions like this ALL DAY!!! Were there 2 Polynesians, Native Americans, Blacks, Caucasians, Arabs, Indians and Pygmies on the Arc with Noah? I know some of these seem redundant but as of yet I've never gotten ONE of you Christians to come up with a resonable answer to ANY of them. Why would God have some plan for all of his beloved children to "return" to him and then only make this plan well known and popular in a limited part of the world to a limited number of people (and a small minority I might add)? Why would God want you to pray at all, doesn't he know everything you're thinking before you do? What makes all of you take Abraham at his word? Do you know the history of Abraham and his travels? Do you even know how the Jewish tribal Gods system worked back in those days? Do you know that all Jews used to believe in multiple Gods and that Abraham went around trying to convince everyone that there was only one God, El, and eventually the idea caught on because the Jews were sick of having to change the Gods they worshiped every time they got relocated (and in those days the Jews got relocated quite a bit)? How can anyone say that Abraham and the three religions he spawned are any less a product of social systems naturally creating a belief system then the religions of the Hindu, Shinto, Druids, Native Americans? You can't. Lighten up everyone. There's no reason to believe in some ancient book filled with obviously fabricated stories. You don't need to live forever. You don't need to have some invisible jerk telling you what to do. For those of you that were athiest at one time and swithced over to religion, I'm sorry something really painfull happened to you that made it hard for you to let go of someone, but do you really want to think that you're conscience will exist forever? Don't you realize that eventually you will be sick of everything including sitting around and playing a harp for the all powerful creator of the universe. What could you possibly want to do FOREVER? Just a little critical thinking folks... that's all it takes. "Any man willing to trade freedom for security deserves neither." -Benjamin Franklin

Feb 19, 2004, 03:42 pm	#201 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	Just a random question in between; Why do people call god "He" or "him"? Does god have a sex? .......back on topic.

Feb 19, 2004, 03:47 pm	#202 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	the He or Him is referring to the Fatherly nature of God... it is not trying to say that God is this sex or God is that sex, as sex is something unique to beings which procreate(also, we're all women when we start out, so that would be more likely if God were a sex) so yeah, it has to do with how God is our Father. Just like Jesus is not actually a light, and yet He calls Himself The Light... It is anthropromorphisis(sp?) showin u parts of His true nature in analogy that we can understand.

Feb 19, 2004, 04:53 pm	#207 (permalink) (top)
URnotmeRU Guest Posts: n/a	All I can say is there ain't no athiests in a foxhole.

Feb 19, 2004, 05:01 pm	#208 (permalink) (top)
Spyder Jerusalem Molten Ash Location: The City, scoring dope. Posts: 31	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (URnotmeRU,) All I can say is there ain't no athiests in a foxhole. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This kind o' glib shit is meaningless. I'm an atheist. And I've been in a "foxhole". Being shot at, with threat of death looming. Didn't change my mind one bit. Those "foxhole conversions" are simply fear. Fear of death and pain. An animalistic response to a frightening situation. So, gimme a fuckin' break with this crap and say something that actually means something, okay? "A Kenyan man once said to me, 'You can get used to anything when money's involved.' He used to stick mice up his ass for twenty bucks a time."

Feb 19, 2004, 06:03 pm	#209 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Spyder Jerusalem,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (URnotmeRU,) All I can say is there ain't no athiests in a foxhole. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This kind o' glib shit is meaningless. I'm an atheist. And I've been in a "foxhole". Being shot at, with threat of death looming. Didn't change my mind one bit. Those "foxhole conversions" are simply fear. Fear of death and pain. An animalistic response to a frightening situation. So, gimme a fuckin' break with this crap and say something that actually means something, okay?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I hope you weren't trying to say you weren't afraid of death. I think hope is a great thing to have, but being realistic is better.

Feb 19, 2004, 06:46 pm	#210 (permalink) (top)
PaulOtt Sedimentary Rock Location: Tennessee Posts: 13	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) From your point of view, it's a futile argument, so you can keep your blind faith and I'll keep to logic and reason. Now we're all happy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>It would appear that we both keep our faith in our ways of perceiving the world. Claiming that God does not exist, should He choose to not fulfill the requirements of the scientific method, is not logical, however. <span style='font-family:Verdana'><span style='color:purple'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>God lives.</span></span></span> <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>--------------------</span>

Feb 19, 2004, 06:48 pm	#211 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,549	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PaulOtt,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) From your point of view, it's a futile argument, so you can keep your blind faith and I'll keep to logic and reason. Now we're all happy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>It would appear that we both keep our faith in our ways of perceiving the world. Claiming that God does not exist, should He choose to not fulfill the requirements of the scientific method, is not logical, however.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> But I do have the right to assert a flying pink elephant doesn't if it doesn't fulfill the scientific requirements to do so. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Feb 19, 2004, 06:55 pm	#212 (permalink) (top)
m5lange1 Igneous Magma Posts: 649	My sincerre aplogies Anniee. The quote I attributed to you was indeed from Libertyminded. I shall edit and note my error on my post. The question, however still stands only now I am asking Liberty..... Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally Posted by Libertyminded "for those of us that have spent endless hours informing ourselves in regard to REAL information and facts, the arguments from those of you that base your undestanding of this world on your subjective emotions are nothing more than the quiveling of inferior minds" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Regarding the phrase "inferior minds". Could you please clarify inferior to whom, or whose if you prefer.? Protester against the culture war!!!!

Feb 19, 2004, 07:45 pm	#213 (permalink) (top)
ethyl Sedimentary Rock Posts: 2	Something very interesting is going to happen soon. First I must explain. When an atheist states he/she does not believe in God. First premise - there is a God - it's just that she/he does not believe in "it." Does that make sense to anyone? Okay, so with that out of the way. We are on the threshold of one of the biggest outpouring of the Holy Spirit in several hundred years. Folks will be walking around saying, "can I get that too." Trust me (smile) I do know. If you want more info let me know. My field is Bible research.

Feb 19, 2004, 08:05 pm	#214 (permalink) (top)
PaulOtt Sedimentary Rock Location: Tennessee Posts: 13	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) But I do have the right to assert a flying pink elephant doesn't if it doesn't fulfill the scientific requirements to do so.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>The scientific method is good for some things, and it is not good for some things. Do the characteristics of the subject allow it to be seen, heard, tasted, felt, or smelled in impersonal, controlled, and repeatable experiments? Most often it is the atheists that claim God has characteristics that would cause Him to be revealed in such a test. It is all quite illogical. <span style='font-family:Verdana'><span style='color:purple'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>God lives.</span></span></span> <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>--------------------</span>

Feb 19, 2004, 09:08 pm	#215 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (PaulOtt,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,) But I do have the right to assert a flying pink elephant doesn't if it doesn't fulfill the scientific requirements to do so.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>The scientific method is good for some things, and it is not good for some things. Do the characteristics of the subject allow it to be seen, heard, tasted, felt, or smelled in impersonal, controlled, and repeatable experiments? Most often it is the atheists that claim God has characteristics that would cause Him to be revealed in such a test. It is all quite illogical.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> The argument that God exists in such a way that makes him impossible to detect is SOOOO convenient....

Feb 19, 2004, 09:26 pm	#216 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	<a few beers post> What I fail to see is how christian people can be so sure that christianity is the right religion of all others available. To me they're all more or less naive and have no credit, but answer me this: Isn't it strange how you all have "found [the christian] god" to be true, when there are SO many other options out there. Isn't it pretty obvious that you believe in the same god as your parents do? How come a human being needs to be told what god to believe in, if any? Play along with me, christian believer; Let's say you were born in a muslim city somewhere, with their respective religion surrounding you since you were born. Don't you think you'd believe in what your parents tell you to? With that said, how can you be so sure that your god is the right one? A simple answer will do. As for myself; My mother's more or less christian, and believes in god. She prays and all that jazz. My dad's a scientist, and does not believe in any god. They both told me what they believed to me when I was a kid. They never "pushed" any beliefs on me. It didn't take long for me to figure out that the christian faith is nothing more than fairytales (like any other man-made religion). I also came to the conclusion that we do not get all answers from science. So, I became agnostic in my views. So anyway, why wouldn't your beliefs be in every way linked to what was told to you, even pushed on you? Religious people are so happy to tell everyone that "GOD LIVES" and that stuff....but did you come to that conclusion or do you believe just because of your enviroment and the way your parents raised you? </a few beers post>

Feb 19, 2004, 09:29 pm	#217 (permalink) (top)
PaulOtt Sedimentary Rock Location: Tennessee Posts: 13	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,) The argument that God exists in such a way that makes him impossible to detect is SOOOO convenient....<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>I have not said He is impossible to detect. I have said He is possible to detect. If there were a God--a God more concerned with your morals than your knowledge--how could you try to make contact with Him? You don't have to go into a church to know God. You don't have to climb to the top of a mountain to know God. You don't have to conduct a science test to know God. It begins with humble sincerity. <span style='font-family:Verdana'><span style='color:purple'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>God lives.</span></span></span> <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>--------------------</span>

Feb 19, 2004, 10:25 pm	#218 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	I can only assume your talking about faith. I'll agree that faith is the whole point of religion....another convenient argument.

Feb 19, 2004, 10:30 pm	#219 (permalink) (top)
PaulOtt Sedimentary Rock Location: Tennessee Posts: 13	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Paavo,) With that said, how can you be so sure that your god is the right one? A simple answer will do.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>God gave me a very basic, fundamental understanding of Him and life. I read. Some supports. Some doesn't. <span style='font-family:Verdana'><span style='color:purple'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>God lives.</span></span></span> <span style='font-size:10pt;line-height:100%'>--------------------</span>

Feb 19, 2004, 11:39 pm	#220 (permalink) (top)
libertyminded Molten Ash Location: Seattle, Washington USA Posts: 69	While the "Yes" line is pulling ahead I have yet to see any answers to all of the questions I posed in my recent posts. Is there no Christian out there with enough witts to dispell my blasphamy? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by So when all you Christians die and go to Heaven, what do you look like? I'm assuming that since God created man in his own image that you'll retain some sort of prairie ape characteristics. Do you exist for all eternity as an adult or as a kid or just whatever state you're in when you die? Why did "God" tell all of us to cover up our naughty parts? Didn't he create our bodies? Shouldn't we be proud of his masterfull design... or did certain parts of our bodies become evil all of the sudden after Adam and Eve ate some fruit or something (right, don't you dare eat the fruit of knowledge if you want to remain perfect, ignorance is bliss)? Jesus Christ!!! I could go on with questions like this ALL DAY!!! Were there 2 Polynesians, Native Americans, Blacks, Caucasians, Arabs, Indians and Pygmies on the Arc with Noah? I know some of these seem redundant but as of yet I've never gotten ONE of you Christians to come up with a resonable answer to ANY of them. Why would God have some plan for all of his beloved children to "return" to him and then only make this plan well known and popular in a limited part of the world to a limited number of people (and a small minority I might add)? Why would God want you to pray at all, doesn't he know everything you're thinking before you do? What makes all of you take Abraham at his word? Do you know the history of Abraham and his travels? Do you even know how the Jewish tribal Gods system worked back in those days? Do you know that all Jews used to believe in multiple Gods and that Abraham went around trying to convince everyone that there was only one God, El, and eventually the idea caught on because the Jews were sick of having to change the Gods they worshiped every time they got relocated (and in those days the Jews got relocated quite a bit)? How can anyone say that Abraham and the three religions he spawned are any less a product of social systems naturally creating a belief system then the religions of the Hindu, Shinto, Druids, Native Americans? You can't. Lighten up everyone. There's no reason to believe in some ancient book filled with obviously fabricated stories. You don't need to live forever. You don't need to have some invisible jerk telling you what to do. For those of you that were athiest at one time and swithced over to religion, I'm sorry something really painfull happened to you that made it hard for you to let go of someone, but do you really want to think that you're conscience will exist forever? Don't you realize that eventually you will be sick of everything including sitting around and playing a harp for the all powerful creator of the universe. What could you possibly want to do FOREVER? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Anyone? "Any man willing to trade freedom for security deserves neither." -Benjamin Franklin