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RebelWithanAK · Feb 16, 2004, 04:40 pm

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (the_anawim)
The roots of civil religion go back 313 AD when Christianity merged with the Roman Empire.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>Err, Rome already had a civil religion, with many gods already. If you don't remember, it was Rome's trying to instill that religion on the Jews when Rome conquered the area that caused all the trouble in the first place. You know, putting non-Judaic statues in Jewish temples and requiring people to offer to Roman gods, followed by angry incursions, to which they send in the troops, followed by more incursions, then more draconian crackdowns, and after a while Rome essentially said, "fuck it, we don't ask, they don't tell." And even before Rome there was Greece, and before Greece, the entire Middle East was a hodge-podge of theocratic city-states. Whaddaya MEAN civil religion doesn't go that far?!

the_anawim · Feb 17, 2004, 04:37 pm

RebelWithanAK: You are right--I just misspoke. I should have clarified what type of civil religion I am talking about, which is distinctively Christian. I don't think "civil religion" by definition began in 313 AD--I just meant (as you can see by the context of my post) that that is when Christians began to seriously miscontrue the meaning of Christian faith.

Nice post, Noetic Penguin. I think you're dead on.

The Ekklesia Project

Passivist · Feb 24, 2004, 08:55 am

Seeing how church and state in america are officially separated, it has more to do with the "civic religion"; which is some sort of "declaration of holiness" of the american state.

Bla. I think this may well be the one question on my exam I answered incorrectly.

Feb 24, 2004, 11:00 pm

America was founded by people who wanted to worship in various ways without being 'run out of town' for it. Our Founding Fathers were mostly Deists and Freemasons (NOT a christian organization). The Constitution and Bill of Rights mention a creator but that is the creator-god of the Deists NOT that of today's christians who seem to want a daddy-god. I don't think that the United States was ever blessed by any god - it was founded and kept safe by HUMAN BEINGS. The original Pledge of Alligance to the Flag did NOT contain any mention of any god - this phrase was added during the communist scare in 1954 or so by a catholic group - the Knights of Columbus. The original pledge should be used.

Valerie

Feb 16, 2004, 04:40 pm	#21 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (the_anawim) The roots of civil religion go back 313 AD when Christianity merged with the Roman Empire.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>Err, Rome already had a civil religion, with many gods already. If you don't remember, it was Rome's trying to instill that religion on the Jews when Rome conquered the area that caused all the trouble in the first place. You know, putting non-Judaic statues in Jewish temples and requiring people to offer to Roman gods, followed by angry incursions, to which they send in the troops, followed by more incursions, then more draconian crackdowns, and after a while Rome essentially said, "fuck it, we don't ask, they don't tell." And even before Rome there was Greece, and before Greece, the entire Middle East was a hodge-podge of theocratic city-states. Whaddaya MEAN civil religion doesn't go that far?! . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Feb 24, 2004, 08:55 am	#23 (permalink) (top)
Passivist Molten Ash Location: Groningen Posts: 30	Seeing how church and state in america are officially separated, it has more to do with the "civic religion"; which is some sort of "declaration of holiness" of the american state. Bla. I think this may well be the one question on my exam I answered incorrectly. Self-deception does not alter truth.

Feb 17, 2004, 04:37 pm	#22 (permalink) (top)
the_anawim Sedimentary Rock Location: Clinton, MS Posts: 15	RebelWithanAK: You are right--I just misspoke. I should have clarified what type of civil religion I am talking about, which is distinctively Christian. I don't think "civil religion" by definition began in 313 AD--I just meant (as you can see by the context of my post) that that is when Christians began to seriously miscontrue the meaning of Christian faith. Nice post, Noetic Penguin. I think you're dead on. The Ekklesia Project

Feb 24, 2004, 11:00 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
valchau Guest Posts: n/a	America was founded by people who wanted to worship in various ways without being 'run out of town' for it. Our Founding Fathers were mostly Deists and Freemasons (NOT a christian organization). The Constitution and Bill of Rights mention a creator but that is the creator-god of the Deists NOT that of today's christians who seem to want a daddy-god. I don't think that the United States was ever blessed by any god - it was founded and kept safe by HUMAN BEINGS. The original Pledge of Alligance to the Flag did NOT contain any mention of any god - this phrase was added during the communist scare in 1954 or so by a catholic group - the Knights of Columbus. The original pledge should be used. Valerie