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orgaelin · Mar 16, 2005, 06:35 pm

Hello people. Once again I bring you my private life on a stage for all to pass comment upon...

As some of you may recall, I posted a while back about my wife having had an affair. Update: for some reason it's taken months for me to really feel what I should have felt in those first moments after I found out about it. Now I feel it. Rage. A lust for revenge like I have never even dreamed I could feel.

And that's my dillemna. How to satisfy that need. A guy has had sex with my wife and many other married women besides and he's gotten away with it completely. He's left a trail of ruined lives and broken hearts, and families. I want him to know what suffering feels like. I want him to know what I feel like.

But I don't want to get in trouble for the sake of him. So that's the real question - how to inflict the most satisfying revenge with the least consequences for myself? Many people on here are a lot older than I... surely you've had times in your life that have called for you to avenge someone's wrong-doing against you? What did you do, or what would you do if you were me?

Of course, I take full responsibility for my own actions and any comments will be received as comments and not advice or instruction!

Frustratedly yours,

~ Org. :confused:

Gorgo · Mar 16, 2005, 06:58 pm

Who says that you "should" feel a certain way?

Anger is a habit. Nothing more. It is generated by beliefs about a lack of self-worth, or to gain self-worth. It is a product of what you tell yourself about yourself and your world.

I'm not saying that it's not okay to be angry. What I'm saying is listen to what you tell yourself. For instance, "I should be angry." "I have right to be angry." There is nothing that says that you "should" and you have a right to fall down, too, but nobody says that that would be a reasonable goal.

It isn't that you "let" them anger you. It is that we are angry people, and we at our world through our angry beliefs and we find things to confirm what we think about ourselves. "Those people must change in order for me to be at peace."

When you realize that your anger isn't about what's happening, but rather what you think about yourself, then you'll see things differently. It isn't that you'll never get irritated, which you will. It isn't that you'll never get angry. You will. It's that you know that you can recognize your angry beliefs, and know that they are false.

When you attain this perfect peace of mind, then and only then can you slit the bastard's throat and enjoy it!

G. Adams · Mar 16, 2005, 07:03 pm

The only act of revenge I've conducted was when I was 17 with a friend of mine. A guy who lived near me had attacked a close female friend of mine. So we waited till he left his house at night (it was winter). We knocked him on his ass, gagged and blindfolded him and dragged him up the hills at the top of my road. We stripped him down, tied him to a tree and burnt his clothes in front of him. We stayed all night, giving him a thump now and then to keep him awake (we kept the fire going well, didn't want him to freeze). we kept talking about things we might do to him to keep him terrified. In the morning we untied him from the tree with hands still bound, ungagged and got rid of the blind folds (tossed those in the fire). Give him a swift kick up the arse as he went running home.

Yes it's severe but he attacked a women, a friend of mine, and tried to rape her. He wasn't badly hurt, but he was damn well humiliated walking down the street butt naked, unable to cover himself up. And he was terrified during the night (I know that cause he pissed himself).
He deserved it.

In your case, I'd just get on with life. It's not worth it.

syracusa · Mar 16, 2005, 07:34 pm

Just leave your wife. It is not that guy's fault only, it is also her fault.
Even more so, that guy is not close to you, so him not worrying about your feelings is not as grave as YOUR WIFE not worrying about your feelings and the conseqeunces of her actions.

Sorry, but your wife is way more guilty thant that guy.

rcne · Mar 16, 2005, 07:48 pm

Walk away from the whole situation. Revenge is fleeting and the consequences could last a lifetime.

You may damage yourself more than you know.

In the end - you need to worry about yourself first. Get a fresh start, and start the rest of you life.

That's the good side of me.
Now the bad.

Start a rumor that he has AIDS or some such nasty sexual related thing, and watch his conquests shrink to nothing. HA!

ericsp23 · Mar 16, 2005, 07:55 pm

Something similar happened to me a few years ago, so I have an idea of what you are going through. You can take my word that the anger does fade away after a while, and you will be glad that you didn't do anything stupid that could have negative, long term consequences.

JamesMcBride · Mar 16, 2005, 08:54 pm

Being angry is like holding a hot coal with the intention of throwing it at someone... All the while you are waiting - you are the one getting burned.

Lilith · Mar 16, 2005, 09:59 pm

"Revenge is a dish best served cold"-Kill Bill Vol. 1

I'm not going to give any advice. I always find I end up putting my foot in my mouth when I do. But I will say this, I feel bad for you dude, it's got to be a tough situation that you are in. The best of luck in whatever you decide.

Paavo · Mar 17, 2005, 04:35 am

Letterbomb.

Okay maybe not.
I'm not buying Gorgo's version of anger as a feeling, I think it's natural and healthy. Hell, without anger (over things like this, for example) and revenge, bastards would walk "unharmed" and continue doing whatever they are doing. Come up with something that isn't serious, but will make him suffer. Keep it legal though, haha.

Gorgo · Mar 17, 2005, 06:23 am

I didn't say it wasn't. It's not something that makes you a robot where you must act on what you feel. It's not something that's automatic, it's based on your perception. As your perception changes, so do your emotions. I now have no anger against the people that cheated on me years ago. I had all sorts of mixed emotions at the time. We are taught that we "should" be angry. We are taught that we have to get our self-worth (peace of mind) from things outside of us. That's what this whole "self-esteem" thing is. Some of us were taught that we have to do certain things to "feel good" about ourselves. It's bunk. I said it's not bad to be angry. Just use it for what it is. There is a difference between understanding what you want and what you don't want and being angry.

Quote:

Quote by: Paavo

I'm not buying Gorgo's version of anger as a feeling, I think it's natural and healthy

Nono · Mar 17, 2005, 07:03 am

It takes two to tango, orgaelin. Your problem seems to be (or have been at least) with your wife, not with the guy she slept with. He's probably just an opportunist.

Another consideration should be the fact that 'teaching someone a lesson' is a process that can get out of hand a lot faster than one might imagine.

orgaelin · Mar 17, 2005, 09:14 am

Okay folks. Much to respond to!

Nono, you're dead right. He was just an opportunist. Do I hate him less for that? No. I get visual 'images' in my mind of his hands on my wife, etc... and I feel the most intense rage. That's just what happens. I can reason it out objectively and see, just as anyone else, that I should be more angry with my wife... but I am not. I mean sure I am angry with her, but I love her... I don't love him! Feeling intense anger at someone you love just as intensely is a horrible place to be in, but I think it feels better than intense anger at someone you hate.

Gorgo. Your views are probably correct, or would be in a world where knowledge of psychology meant we were then able to apply that knowledge and be in complete control of our emotions as a result! Self esteem is probably in there somewhere, but for me, right now, it doesn't matter the behind-the-scenes why of how I feel. I just feel this way.

G. Adams... I'm sure that was satisfying! I don't envision myself taking things quiet that far!

I read in the paper about a guy who was going to jail for hiring a gang to abduct his wife's bit-on-the-side and beat him up. They stuffed him in a trunk and drove him to a secluded place then beat him... the article was coming from the angle that the husband was really bad... but I just wished I could shake his hand, and tell him he did the right thing!! I am a pacifist, but I'm an angry pacifist. But not that angry!

You said, "In your case, I'd just get on with life. It's not worth it."

Good plan. Easier said!

Syracusa, I agree. But like I said earlier in this post... my anger towards the two of them is levelled by my feelings for them. I love my wife. Although that's something I'm wondering about. Right now it's as if we just exist in the house together. There's no external or even internal evidence of any love.

RCNE. Funny! I do have a few details about him. I know where he works, at a prestigious architecture firm. My thoughts lean in the direction of somehow embarassing him there. Shame would probably be the best revenge all round.

Ericsp23... I hope the anger does fade. I figured out today, based on what you have said, that I have gone through various phases. Started with insecurity and fear, which turned to hurt, and now I'm on rage. Maybe this phase will give way to forgiveness?

JamesMcBride, I loved that analogy! Excellent! But you could see it from two angles... the fact that my hand is burning could mean that I should just drop it, or that I should throw it quick!

Lillith. Thankyou! :)

Paavo. Thankyou too... but where's your head gone?!

Ok. I think that's covered everyone's comments! I feel strange right now. Like I said, my love and anger are balanced out, leaving me feeling indifferent. But I know the anger should fade and the love, probably, will not. Mabye it's just a case of allowing time to let me forget? But I have reminders... like she has a bra in her drawer that she bought to wear for him, and she refused to get rid of it. I'm planning to get rid of it anyway!

I can hear some of your thoughts, saying just be rid of her. Not that simple by a long shot. She is a wonderful person despite this. The most truthful thing we could say is that there is no quick solution to my situation, no easy one either.

~ Org.

Gorgo · Mar 17, 2005, 09:36 am

Sounds like you have it figured out. Hurting someone else generally causes more trouble than it's worth.

But tell me, if we don't 'control' our emotions, who does?

Quote:

Quote by: orgaelin

apply that knowledge and be in complete control of our emotions as a result!

JamesMcBride · Mar 17, 2005, 10:08 am

Get rid of the bra??? Get rid of your wife! Is she such a wonderful person that she would even think about putting you through so much pain? I think most anger that surrounds infidelity comes from two areas:

1. Feelings of betrayal: "HIS hands on MY wife" - like your wife was your property and that this man has somehow taken something that was yours and made it his...

2. I think you probably view your wife in two lights now... On the one hand there's the reality of the situation: Your wife cheated on you and totally disregarded your feelings. And on the other hand, you still hold a romantic view of this woman as being in love and all of the things you felt when she was sincere - the two can only exist in conflict though!

I guess you can either do one of two things:

1. Try and move on and accept that sometimes people do stray. or...

2. Cut all ties, get some psychological closure and move on with your life.

If you're with her because you think that you won't find better, it's just nonsense! I think that a good indication of where your wife's heart lies is in the fact that she refuses to get rid of emotional triggers that remind you AND her of this other man - namely the Bra. I'd be more than a little worried about this though!

orgaelin · Mar 17, 2005, 12:35 pm

McBride, you made me laugh there!

I'm what I call an optimist, and others call a delusionist!

It all comes down to what I am prepared to believe/accept/pretend is true. I don't presently believe that she loves me. I believe that she believes she does, but that she is denying the obvious even to herself. Thus either of two things will happen in the probably-near future: 1, we'll stick together through this untill it's more of a memory, and our feelinsg return to normal; or 2, she will slowly learn to be honest and we'll both go our separate ways.

You mentioned about seeing her in two ways... I agree, but the two ways I see are the her that seems to be real now, and the her that I used to think was real. I had an image of her as an impeccably honest woman who would never cheat on anyone, who would never lie, and would always be there when I needed her. Now I have an image of someone who has contradicted all of my beliefs about her. The problem is working out which image is real right now. Is the original image true and the new one was just a passing error, or was the original image a delusion and the new image the real one?

I'm not enjoying this discussion, because even as I write I can see answers staring me in the face that I don't want to face! The one thing I know is that untill I am certain of anything I should be careful with what I do. When you are as confused as I am right now, you don't go messing up your whole life on a 50/50 hope that it's the right thing to do.

I'll keep you posted anyway. Thanks again everyone.

~ Org.

JamesMcBride · Mar 18, 2005, 12:50 pm

At least you're well into the difficult task of facing up to difficult answers.

Good luck! I hope it all works out.

Mar 16, 2005, 06:35 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 720	Revenge is a dish best served... now? Hello people. Once again I bring you my private life on a stage for all to pass comment upon... As some of you may recall, I posted a while back about my wife having had an affair. Update: for some reason it's taken months for me to really feel what I should have felt in those first moments after I found out about it. Now I feel it. Rage. A lust for revenge like I have never even dreamed I could feel. And that's my dillemna. How to satisfy that need. A guy has had sex with my wife and many other married women besides and he's gotten away with it completely. He's left a trail of ruined lives and broken hearts, and families. I want him to know what suffering feels like. I want him to know what I feel like. But I don't want to get in trouble for the sake of him. So that's the real question - how to inflict the most satisfying revenge with the least consequences for myself? Many people on here are a lot older than I... surely you've had times in your life that have called for you to avenge someone's wrong-doing against you? What did you do, or what would you do if you were me? Of course, I take full responsibility for my own actions and any comments will be received as comments and not advice or instruction! Frustratedly yours, ~ Org. :confused: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Mar 16, 2005, 07:03 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
G. Adams Fyrdman Location: Middlesbrough UK Posts: 4,174	The only act of revenge I've conducted was when I was 17 with a friend of mine. A guy who lived near me had attacked a close female friend of mine. So we waited till he left his house at night (it was winter). We knocked him on his ass, gagged and blindfolded him and dragged him up the hills at the top of my road. We stripped him down, tied him to a tree and burnt his clothes in front of him. We stayed all night, giving him a thump now and then to keep him awake (we kept the fire going well, didn't want him to freeze). we kept talking about things we might do to him to keep him terrified. In the morning we untied him from the tree with hands still bound, ungagged and got rid of the blind folds (tossed those in the fire). Give him a swift kick up the arse as he went running home. Yes it's severe but he attacked a women, a friend of mine, and tried to rape her. He wasn't badly hurt, but he was damn well humiliated walking down the street butt naked, unable to cover himself up. And he was terrified during the night (I know that cause he pissed himself). He deserved it. In your case, I'd just get on with life. It's not worth it. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchill

Mar 16, 2005, 07:34 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
syracusa Igneous Magma Posts: 623	Just leave your wife. It is not that guy's fault only, it is also her fault. Even more so, that guy is not close to you, so him not worrying about your feelings is not as grave as YOUR WIFE not worrying about your feelings and the conseqeunces of her actions. Sorry, but your wife is way more guilty thant that guy. COMPETITION BRINGS THE BEST IN PRODUCTS AND THE WORST IN RELATIONSHIPS.

Mar 16, 2005, 07:48 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	Walk away from the whole situation. Revenge is fleeting and the consequences could last a lifetime. You may damage yourself more than you know. In the end - you need to worry about yourself first. Get a fresh start, and start the rest of you life. That's the good side of me. Now the bad. Start a rumor that he has AIDS or some such nasty sexual related thing, and watch his conquests shrink to nothing. HA! Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism) Last edited by rcne; Mar 16, 2005 at 07:52 pm.

Mar 16, 2005, 07:55 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
ericsp23 Pragmatic liberal Posts: 421	Something similar happened to me a few years ago, so I have an idea of what you are going through. You can take my word that the anger does fade away after a while, and you will be glad that you didn't do anything stupid that could have negative, long term consequences. Economic Left/Right -5.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarion -4.41

Mar 16, 2005, 06:58 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Who says that you "should" feel a certain way? Anger is a habit. Nothing more. It is generated by beliefs about a lack of self-worth, or to gain self-worth. It is a product of what you tell yourself about yourself and your world. I'm not saying that it's not okay to be angry. What I'm saying is listen to what you tell yourself. For instance, "I should be angry." "I have right to be angry." There is nothing that says that you "should" and you have a right to fall down, too, but nobody says that that would be a reasonable goal. It isn't that you "let" them anger you. It is that we are angry people, and we at our world through our angry beliefs and we find things to confirm what we think about ourselves. "Those people must change in order for me to be at peace." When you realize that your anger isn't about what's happening, but rather what you think about yourself, then you'll see things differently. It isn't that you'll never get irritated, which you will. It isn't that you'll never get angry. You will. It's that you know that you can recognize your angry beliefs, and know that they are false. When you attain this perfect peace of mind, then and only then can you slit the bastard's throat and enjoy it!

Mar 16, 2005, 08:54 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
JamesMcBride Canoe Champ Location: London, UK Posts: 171	Being angry is like holding a hot coal with the intention of throwing it at someone... All the while you are waiting - you are the one getting burned.

Mar 16, 2005, 09:59 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Lilith It's my life Location: Texas Posts: 532	"Revenge is a dish best served cold"-Kill Bill Vol. 1 I'm not going to give any advice. I always find I end up putting my foot in my mouth when I do. But I will say this, I feel bad for you dude, it's got to be a tough situation that you are in. The best of luck in whatever you decide. If you want the country to go to hell in a handbasket, then vote for the one who can drive you there blindfolded.

Mar 17, 2005, 04:35 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
Paavo Location: Finland Posts: 712	Letterbomb. Okay maybe not. I'm not buying Gorgo's version of anger as a feeling, I think it's natural and healthy. Hell, without anger (over things like this, for example) and revenge, bastards would walk "unharmed" and continue doing whatever they are doing. Come up with something that isn't serious, but will make him suffer. Keep it legal though, haha.

Mar 17, 2005, 07:03 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,453	It takes two to tango, orgaelin. Your problem seems to be (or have been at least) with your wife, not with the guy she slept with. He's probably just an opportunist. Another consideration should be the fact that 'teaching someone a lesson' is a process that can get out of hand a lot faster than one might imagine. "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

Mar 17, 2005, 09:14 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 720	Okay folks. Much to respond to! Nono, you're dead right. He was just an opportunist. Do I hate him less for that? No. I get visual 'images' in my mind of his hands on my wife, etc... and I feel the most intense rage. That's just what happens. I can reason it out objectively and see, just as anyone else, that I should be more angry with my wife... but I am not. I mean sure I am angry with her, but I love her... I don't love him! Feeling intense anger at someone you love just as intensely is a horrible place to be in, but I think it feels better than intense anger at someone you hate. Gorgo. Your views are probably correct, or would be in a world where knowledge of psychology meant we were then able to apply that knowledge and be in complete control of our emotions as a result! Self esteem is probably in there somewhere, but for me, right now, it doesn't matter the behind-the-scenes why of how I feel. I just feel this way. G. Adams... I'm sure that was satisfying! I don't envision myself taking things quiet that far! I read in the paper about a guy who was going to jail for hiring a gang to abduct his wife's bit-on-the-side and beat him up. They stuffed him in a trunk and drove him to a secluded place then beat him... the article was coming from the angle that the husband was really bad... but I just wished I could shake his hand, and tell him he did the right thing!! I am a pacifist, but I'm an angry pacifist. But not that angry! You said, "In your case, I'd just get on with life. It's not worth it." Good plan. Easier said! Syracusa, I agree. But like I said earlier in this post... my anger towards the two of them is levelled by my feelings for them. I love my wife. Although that's something I'm wondering about. Right now it's as if we just exist in the house together. There's no external or even internal evidence of any love. RCNE. Funny! I do have a few details about him. I know where he works, at a prestigious architecture firm. My thoughts lean in the direction of somehow embarassing him there. Shame would probably be the best revenge all round. Ericsp23... I hope the anger does fade. I figured out today, based on what you have said, that I have gone through various phases. Started with insecurity and fear, which turned to hurt, and now I'm on rage. Maybe this phase will give way to forgiveness? JamesMcBride, I loved that analogy! Excellent! But you could see it from two angles... the fact that my hand is burning could mean that I should just drop it, or that I should throw it quick! Lillith. Thankyou! :) Paavo. Thankyou too... but where's your head gone?! Ok. I think that's covered everyone's comments! I feel strange right now. Like I said, my love and anger are balanced out, leaving me feeling indifferent. But I know the anger should fade and the love, probably, will not. Mabye it's just a case of allowing time to let me forget? But I have reminders... like she has a bra in her drawer that she bought to wear for him, and she refused to get rid of it. I'm planning to get rid of it anyway! I can hear some of your thoughts, saying just be rid of her. Not that simple by a long shot. She is a wonderful person despite this. The most truthful thing we could say is that there is no quick solution to my situation, no easy one either. ~ Org. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Mar 17, 2005, 10:08 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
JamesMcBride Canoe Champ Location: London, UK Posts: 171	Get rid of the bra??? Get rid of your wife! Is she such a wonderful person that she would even think about putting you through so much pain? I think most anger that surrounds infidelity comes from two areas: 1. Feelings of betrayal: "HIS hands on MY wife" - like your wife was your property and that this man has somehow taken something that was yours and made it his... 2. I think you probably view your wife in two lights now... On the one hand there's the reality of the situation: Your wife cheated on you and totally disregarded your feelings. And on the other hand, you still hold a romantic view of this woman as being in love and all of the things you felt when she was sincere - the two can only exist in conflict though! I guess you can either do one of two things: 1. Try and move on and accept that sometimes people do stray. or... 2. Cut all ties, get some psychological closure and move on with your life. If you're with her because you think that you won't find better, it's just nonsense! I think that a good indication of where your wife's heart lies is in the fact that she refuses to get rid of emotional triggers that remind you AND her of this other man - namely the Bra. I'd be more than a little worried about this though!

Mar 17, 2005, 12:35 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
orgaelin Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 720	McBride, you made me laugh there! I'm what I call an optimist, and others call a delusionist! It all comes down to what I am prepared to believe/accept/pretend is true. I don't presently believe that she loves me. I believe that she believes she does, but that she is denying the obvious even to herself. Thus either of two things will happen in the probably-near future: 1, we'll stick together through this untill it's more of a memory, and our feelinsg return to normal; or 2, she will slowly learn to be honest and we'll both go our separate ways. You mentioned about seeing her in two ways... I agree, but the two ways I see are the her that seems to be real now, and the her that I used to think was real. I had an image of her as an impeccably honest woman who would never cheat on anyone, who would never lie, and would always be there when I needed her. Now I have an image of someone who has contradicted all of my beliefs about her. The problem is working out which image is real right now. Is the original image true and the new one was just a passing error, or was the original image a delusion and the new image the real one? I'm not enjoying this discussion, because even as I write I can see answers staring me in the face that I don't want to face! The one thing I know is that untill I am certain of anything I should be careful with what I do. When you are as confused as I am right now, you don't go messing up your whole life on a 50/50 hope that it's the right thing to do. I'll keep you posted anyway. Thanks again everyone. ~ Org. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

Mar 18, 2005, 12:50 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
JamesMcBride Canoe Champ Location: London, UK Posts: 171	At least you're well into the difficult task of facing up to difficult answers. Good luck! I hope it all works out.