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RingingSword · Feb 26, 2005, 04:10 pm

American correspondents near the age of fifty are probably familiar with the pop tune, “Louie, Louie,” by the Kingsmen, which dates back to 1964. The recording is wretchedly bad with the musical content being nearly the same. Aside from the main refrain of “Louie, Louie,” almost none of the lyrics are intelligible, and yet the tune is an enduring classic that continues to live on past its time. More than a standby on classic radio, the tune is a soundtrack for rites of passage at frat parties, pre-game rallies and general merry-making. When we consider the portrait of bad quality that is the profile of this tune, how do we explain its importance within our culture? The explanation, I believe, lies embedded within one additional clear element of the recording, namely, the main musical theme, which I represent here as: Dunt dunt dunt/ dunt dunt/ dunt dunt dunt/ dunt dunt/ dunt dunt dunt, etc.

Here’s the gist of my theory: the main musical theme of “Louie, Louie” is a fresh and valid variation of Beethoven’s famous musical introduction to his Fifth Symphony, which I represent here as: dunt dunt dunt duhhh/ dunt dunt dunt duhhh.

In both instances, I believe, the composer has tapped into, or perhaps discovered, the musical equivalent of the golden mean that governs the beauty and symmetry of geometrical forms. On the visual tip, the movie screen at your local mall is proportioned according to this theory of naturally beautiful proportion that dates back to the classical Greeks (I think).

I’m saying, in short, that the main musical theme of “Louie, Louie, ” like the musical introduction to Beethoven’s Fifth, is naturally and inherently beautiful, and that, therefore, all humans of all cultures for all time will respond to it with pleasure. All of this is because the musical theme corresponds to a structure of awareness within human nature that is aligned with the essence of what we experience as beauty.

rcne · Feb 26, 2005, 07:16 pm

Interesting theory. I'm not sure what you mean by the 'golden mean', but music does influence emotions.

A fast beating rhythm to excite, or a relaxing mood enhancer of classical music. The gentle tones of speech also work on horses and dogs to calm.

With that being said, I imagine that a combination may exist that will directly effect emotions, whether for a sense of well being or agitation could just be the choice of tone and pattern.

**Chris** · Feb 26, 2005, 07:26 pm

I think that song sucks...

rez · Feb 28, 2005, 01:23 pm

RingingSword,

A band named Tool used the Golden ratio on their latest album - Lateralus. Maybe you havent heard of them and would like to give them a listen. Of course, this is open to anybody else that is interested as well.

http://www.bofe.org/overthinking.htm ....this will help lead new listeners through Tools complicated time signatures....

ericsp23 · Feb 28, 2005, 02:20 pm

I studied music in college, and I remember actually discussing how common that theme from Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is in one of my Music History classes. My own opinion on the matter is that it is such a simple theme that it is bound to turn up all over the place. The rhythm is fairly straightforwad, 3 short notes of equal length followed by a longer note, and it only involves one pitch change, a drop of a perfect fourth (which incidentally is a common chord root movement in all western tonal music). So I don't think it is very unusual that it pops up all over the place. IMO, the genius of Beethoven's Fifth is not that he came up with some kind of perfect motif, but that he was able to create an entire symphony based on that one, simple idea.
As far as the golden mean is concerned, it does have its place in the analysis of music, but I fail to see how it applies to this particular musical motif.

rez,
Tool is one of my favorite bands, and I actually have that album coming to me in the mail as we speak. I am only familiar with one song on that album, Schism, but I was so impressed with the rhythmic and metrical compexity that I had to check out the whole album (I rarely buy music cd's anymore). I'll have to give that song a listen and let you know what I think.

RingingSword · Feb 28, 2005, 02:25 pm

rez,

Thanks for the info re: Lateralus.

RingingSword · Feb 28, 2005, 02:33 pm

ericsp23,

Your argument is the best one. I can only speculate about the possibility that simplicity and commoness are hallmarks of perfect form.

Feb 26, 2005, 04:10 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
RingingSword Molten Ash Posts: 86	Silly Musical Theory American correspondents near the age of fifty are probably familiar with the pop tune, “Louie, Louie,” by the Kingsmen, which dates back to 1964. The recording is wretchedly bad with the musical content being nearly the same. Aside from the main refrain of “Louie, Louie,” almost none of the lyrics are intelligible, and yet the tune is an enduring classic that continues to live on past its time. More than a standby on classic radio, the tune is a soundtrack for rites of passage at frat parties, pre-game rallies and general merry-making. When we consider the portrait of bad quality that is the profile of this tune, how do we explain its importance within our culture? The explanation, I believe, lies embedded within one additional clear element of the recording, namely, the main musical theme, which I represent here as: Dunt dunt dunt/ dunt dunt/ dunt dunt dunt/ dunt dunt/ dunt dunt dunt, etc. Here’s the gist of my theory: the main musical theme of “Louie, Louie” is a fresh and valid variation of Beethoven’s famous musical introduction to his Fifth Symphony, which I represent here as: dunt dunt dunt duhhh/ dunt dunt dunt duhhh. In both instances, I believe, the composer has tapped into, or perhaps discovered, the musical equivalent of the golden mean that governs the beauty and symmetry of geometrical forms. On the visual tip, the movie screen at your local mall is proportioned according to this theory of naturally beautiful proportion that dates back to the classical Greeks (I think). I’m saying, in short, that the main musical theme of “Louie, Louie, ” like the musical introduction to Beethoven’s Fifth, is naturally and inherently beautiful, and that, therefore, all humans of all cultures for all time will respond to it with pleasure. All of this is because the musical theme corresponds to a structure of awareness within human nature that is aligned with the essence of what we experience as beauty.

Feb 26, 2005, 07:16 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	Interesting theory. I'm not sure what you mean by the 'golden mean', but music does influence emotions. A fast beating rhythm to excite, or a relaxing mood enhancer of classical music. The gentle tones of speech also work on horses and dogs to calm. With that being said, I imagine that a combination may exist that will directly effect emotions, whether for a sense of well being or agitation could just be the choice of tone and pattern. Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism)

Feb 26, 2005, 07:26 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,403	I think that song sucks... I voted against the theocratic psychopaths Shared

Feb 28, 2005, 01:23 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
rez technê Posts: 2,763	RingingSword, A band named Tool used the Golden ratio on their latest album - Lateralus. Maybe you havent heard of them and would like to give them a listen. Of course, this is open to anybody else that is interested as well. http://www.bofe.org/overthinking.htm ....this will help lead new listeners through Tools complicated time signatures.... Last edited by rez; Feb 28, 2005 at 01:39 pm.

Feb 28, 2005, 02:20 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
ericsp23 Pragmatic liberal Posts: 421	I studied music in college, and I remember actually discussing how common that theme from Beethoven's Fifth Symphony is in one of my Music History classes. My own opinion on the matter is that it is such a simple theme that it is bound to turn up all over the place. The rhythm is fairly straightforwad, 3 short notes of equal length followed by a longer note, and it only involves one pitch change, a drop of a perfect fourth (which incidentally is a common chord root movement in all western tonal music). So I don't think it is very unusual that it pops up all over the place. IMO, the genius of Beethoven's Fifth is not that he came up with some kind of perfect motif, but that he was able to create an entire symphony based on that one, simple idea. As far as the golden mean is concerned, it does have its place in the analysis of music, but I fail to see how it applies to this particular musical motif. rez, Tool is one of my favorite bands, and I actually have that album coming to me in the mail as we speak. I am only familiar with one song on that album, Schism, but I was so impressed with the rhythmic and metrical compexity that I had to check out the whole album (I rarely buy music cd's anymore). I'll have to give that song a listen and let you know what I think. Economic Left/Right -5.38 Social Libertarian/Authoritarion -4.41

Feb 28, 2005, 02:25 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
RingingSword Molten Ash Posts: 86	rez, Thanks for the info re: Lateralus.

Feb 28, 2005, 02:33 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
RingingSword Molten Ash Posts: 86	ericsp23, Your argument is the best one. I can only speculate about the possibility that simplicity and commoness are hallmarks of perfect form.