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Jan 29, 2004, 07:12 am
| #1 (permalink) (top) |
| Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599 | There is an old saying...."Our hatred of others is merely what we despise in ourselves." People hate a lot of things. Corporations, politicians, Jews, blacks, Asians, white men, etc. If we took all those elements of hate and examined the reason for hatred, we can find a whole list of emotions: corporations is greed, politicians is powermongering, Jews/Asians are success, etc etc. Yet we all have such elements. Most of us have been greedy at some stage, just like Microsoft. Most of us have been powerhungry at some point (have YOU ever argued with sibling/friend over a material possession, such as who gets that lolly?). Most of us have been successful at some point of our lives. Those emotions are what we despise. We do not hate Microsoft. We hate the fact that we are greedy. We do not hate Church. We hate the fact that we are sheep. We do not hate Jews. We hate the fact that we are not successful. We hate models and singers because they reflect on our desire to be famous and loved by the public. Embrace your nature. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you. |
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Jan 29, 2004, 10:17 am
| #2 (permalink) (top) |
 Igneous Magma  Location: Midlands UK Posts: 704 | I honestly feel that the only thing I hate is hatred itself. Often I feel temporary hate, as in when someone really ticks you off. Perhaps I'm not the best person to comment on this subject (nevertheless I can't help myself!) as I am so unhateful. I think hate is a biological thing. When your child starts nursery and another child takes a toy from him, you can see the early growth of hatred in him/her even then. The child doesn't hate the other child because he dislikes some aspect of himself. I think hate is a learned thing too. If you get bitten by a dog when you're five (like my brother) then you might well grow up asserting that you hate dogs (like my brother does). If a woman is repeatedly mistreated by men, she might determine that she hates men. Hate is closely aligned with fear. It's almost like it's a biological training method, left over from when we had not the minds to think as we do now. Imagine a primitive human is strolling around and sees a small creature that looks interesting. He gets close, but then the creature bites him. Ever after he is both afraid to get too close, and hateful of that type of creature. In a primitive man without much memory or reason, this could save his life. Not from the small creature of course, before someone suggests that! The same instinct is still in us. I believe this is part of a major problem for the Human race - that our primitive instincts are still fighting for ultimate control over our bodies and our actions. We no longer need intensely strong emotions such as fear and hatred to motivate us or guide us, since we can reason better without them. Evolution takes a while to make changes, though, so I guess we're stuck with society and Humanity as it is for the forseeable future! "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
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Jan 29, 2004, 10:24 am
| #3 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Location: NJ Posts: 113 | thats a pretty crappy pseudo freudian college boy approach no doubt it is true of hate born in the lowest and weakest among us, but the definition of hate does not imply anything like that whatsoever. what about the very popular hate born of vengeance? If someone murdered my woman, would I hate them because I am not a murderer? "Die! Fall upon your sword. Fall upon your knee. Die like your Son, nailed to his Tree. Die by my hand. Die in my heart, plucked from the Ice; forever cold." |
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Jan 29, 2004, 10:34 am
| #4 (permalink) (top) |
| Hot Lava Posts: 1,859 | you would hate them until you enacted your "justice"... if you couldn't do it, the state would and if not the state, your god... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results... |
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Jan 29, 2004, 10:36 am
| #5 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Location: NJ Posts: 113 | What does that have to do with the initial definition of hate being woefully off base in the case of vengeance? "Die! Fall upon your sword. Fall upon your knee. Die like your Son, nailed to his Tree. Die by my hand. Die in my heart, plucked from the Ice; forever cold." |
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Jan 29, 2004, 10:43 am
| #6 (permalink) (top) |
| Hot Lava Posts: 1,859 | nothing, but your implication was that it was not in your nature to hate... it is a universal human emotion/reaction, and no, I didn't find castille's definition to be woefully off base, vengance is afterall the basis of christianity... hate is not a problem, it is a tool... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results... |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:20 am
| #7 (permalink) (top) |
| Playful  Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805 | </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) nothing, but your implication was that it was not in your nature to hate... it is a universal human emotion/reaction, and no, I didn't find castille's definition to be woefully off base, vengance is afterall the basis of christianity... hate is not a problem, it is a tool...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I disagree, I believe there are people who can see beyond hate and thus not really 'hate'. Hate is a weakness which blinds. Hate as tool has the nasty property of turning against the one wielding it. Read any of Orson Scott Card's books and you'll know what I mean. I also believe man can be taught not to hate. Or I should say rationalize the hate. Acknowledge where it is coming from and thus removing the power of the 'hate'. Hate accomplishes nothing. To quote yoda: Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:38 am
| #8 (permalink) (top) |
| Hot Lava Posts: 1,859 | taught? trained? to become that which he is not... hate is inate... hate accomplishes exactly that which is accomplished by training it away... why would you love if you didn't hate? love is a weakness that blinds as well... become nothing? fine... I prefer the passionate life "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results... |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:41 am
| #9 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Location: So Cal Posts: 51 | Orgaelin mentioned: "Hate is closely aligned with fear" I think orgaelin has hit the nail on the head. Imo..we tend to fear what we don't understand...and sometimes if we are not careful we allow hate to be precipitated by this fear because we have not been able to overcome this fear and it makes us feel somewhat uncomfortable to the point we start to hate these uncomfortable feelings....and given enough time...these uncomforatble feelings can/will be coalesced into something more permanent if we don't face our fears. Therefore I fear we hate what we don't understand. I would like to think I love everyone...but I temper this with:..though I don't love what everyone does. When someone intentionally injures you or injures/kills your loved ones or your friends...or even someone you don't know...there is a tendency to allow yourself to want to 'injure them'...be it physically/legally/financially/etc. to satisfy your sense of disgust with this violator of another's rights/dignities/lives/peace/whatever...and sometimes we humans...whether we act as animals ourselves or not...are not satisfied until we also detect blood from another who has made our hearts bleed. This is just the 'Nature of the Beast'...in all of us...I am afraid. 8?( p.s. ...for those of you who 'love to hate'...what are you afraid of...hee hee. ;?) ..oh I see..you also 'hate to love'...hmnn...maybe yourself...just a thought. Don't mind me...and I won't mind you...if you hate what I think!...but if you need to...OK..that's just how some things are sometimes. 8?) |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:48 am
| #10 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 704 | Yoda speaks the truth on this occasion! Impenitent - are you a Christian? What Castille speaks of, if you think about it, is actually guilt and jealousy; jealousy of Microsoft, guilty of being sheep, etc. Then we hate them because they made us feel guilty/jealous. You can't hate Microsoft just because they are succesful, because success is not wrong or in any rational way causing of hate. You don't hate without a reason, unless you are marginally insane. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:51 am
| #11 (permalink) (top) |
| Hot Lava Posts: 1,859 | no, yoda speaks in meaningless circles what does "Impenitent" mean? no, I am not christian you don't love without reason... you don't do anything without reason... marginal insanity only occurs at the edges... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results... |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:52 am
| #12 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Location: NJ Posts: 113 | Hating people who injure you or someone or something you love has nothing to do with the original definition posted. The initial post does cover the foundation of some kinds of hatred, but it is ignorant to try and apply that to all forms. No, if someone raped my woman, I would not hate them out of fear or because they have something I do not; I would hate them for violating something I love. That is not a form of psycholgical weakness and stupid misunderstanding. The initial definition says all hatred is, however. And furthermore, I think it is fundamentally unnatural to want most of the things Castille says we should naturally want. For example, the "success" of the Jews is a very material, very unnatural, very urban, very binding thing that does very little to make one happy. I would argue that people hate it not because they want it and do not have it, but because deep down they do not want it and are told they should. This creates confusion and division within individuals. The same goes for "fame." Who honestly wants toothless yocals so obsessed with you that a picture of you at the beach is worth money? "Die! Fall upon your sword. Fall upon your knee. Die like your Son, nailed to his Tree. Die by my hand. Die in my heart, plucked from the Ice; forever cold." |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:55 am
| #14 (permalink) (top) |
| Playful Location: Groningen, the Netherlands Posts: 805 | </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) taught? trained? to become that which he is not... hate is inate...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> hate might be inate, but how you deal with it and how you recognize it can be taught. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) hate accomplishes exactly that which is accomplished by training it away... why would you love if you didn't hate? love is a weakness that blinds as well... become nothing? fine... I prefer the passionate life<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I don't say become nothing, I say: -understand- your hate. You can learn to deal with all your emotions. But to understand one doesn't mean you feel nothing. You can be very passionate and still understand your 'hate'. |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:56 am
| #15 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 704 | FC Mellon - thanks!! I have a book (can't remember the title, but I'll find it if you want me to) which talks about how they (the authors) think that it is inbuilt into us that we need to have resolution - we have an inate need to see wrongs righted, justice enacted. If we do not, the hate can literally clog our minds. They then argue that dreaming exists to clear your unresolved upsets so you don't go around concentrating on your anger instead of whatever tasks need to be done to ensure your survival. I'm not happy with some parts of the book/idea, but can identify with a mysterious loss of anger over-night. Often I go to bed furious with a relative of someone else who has angered me, but by morning my anger has dissappeared. I 'hate' that!  "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
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Jan 29, 2004, 11:58 am
| #16 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 704 | </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) #600!!! yip yip yippie yahoo!!!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Holy cow boy! How long you been posting on this site then? "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
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Jan 29, 2004, 12:03 pm
| #17 (permalink) (top) |
| Molten Ash Location: So Cal Posts: 51 | "No, if someone raped my woman, I would not hate them out of fear or because they have something I do not; I would hate them for violating something I love. " "there is a tendency to allow yourself to want to 'injure them'...be it physically/legally/financially/etc. to satisfy your sense of disgust with this violator of another's rights/dignities/lives/peace/whatever..." I find a 'congruent' in these two statements...I think 'love of another' is implied(especially with the 'dignities/peace' aspects)...but I know I am wrong many many times...and I fear when I do that....because it justs make me hate my ways even more! |
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Jan 29, 2004, 12:04 pm
| #18 (permalink) (top) |
| Igneous Magma Location: Midlands UK Posts: 704 | </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) no, yoda speaks in meaningless circles what does "Impenitent" mean? no, I am not christian you don't love without reason... you don't do anything without reason... marginal insanity only occurs at the edges...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I did say "on this occasion" he speaks the truth! Ah - impenitent! "not repenting of sin" according to dictionary.com. Sorry! Should have woken up b4 asking silly questions So, how much time do you spend at the edges? "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
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