Does life begin at conception? I think it does.

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: carriew you didnt answer me you already pay a different price for large xtra large and small eggs a whole lot more of chicken would obviously be a different price Or do you just not have a reply to that???

At the same time, get off the chicken case, guys. This one isn't going anywhere.

[MerlinsByte]

The religious philosophies love life so much that they will do anything to preserve it, even if it means hurting the family. Who wants to live 5 years? You just start to begin understanding your surroundings by that time. It's more sad to see a life forced to live than it is seeing a possible life die.

mb writes...What’s wrong with the above quote/paragraph? read the modifed quote below for answer.

The religious philosophies love life (much more than death?) so much that they will do anything (not doing something to save a child is repugnant) to preserve (life) it, even if it means hurting the (making them responsible for their actions rather than blaming the baby) family. Who wants to live 5 years (I do and you cant ask the baby but I suppose it would answer in the affirmative, who knows in 4 years we might fix any problem.) ? You just start to begin understanding (and loving life) your surroundings by that time. It's more sad(its not convenient to raise the child so lets kill it) to see a life (allowed to live and grow up) forced to live (rather than give it death sentence) than it is seeing a (90% likely to live and grow up) possible life die (murdered by a uncaring mommy or daddy).

Sorry I don’t buy it. Abortion? only in cases or rape, maybe, or the mothers life being endangered. Not for birth control or because its convenient. Abortiobn is criminal and repugnant

[Starboy]

Quote by: SoccerfreakAB2 At the same time, get off the chicken case, guys. This one isn't going anywhere.

I agree. Just a lame way of trying to divert the point. No one would expect to recieve a dozen 6lb roasters if they asked for a dozen extra large eggs. And all casheirs know that difference. Even the not so bright ones.

Starboy

[MerlinsByte]

I agree. Just a lame way of trying to divert the point. No one would expect to recieve a dozen 6lb roasters if they asked for a dozen extra large eggs. And all casheirs know that difference. Even the not so bright ones.

Merlin...No , but If you were in the poultry business and had a dozen fertilized chicken eggs in the incubator the odds are that they would produce fuzzy little chicks which would grow and thrive. Anyone with common sense should know this, Even the not so bright ones.

mb

[Two Cents]

Carriew, you made good points and I agree with almost every one of them. Starboy will not or refuses to see the difference between a single cell and a fertilized ovum. No arguing with someone who will not open their minds. I see what he's saying but don't see how the obvious escapes him. A single cell has no potential for life, a fertilized cell does.

[Starboy]

Quote by: Two Cents Carriew, you made good points and I agree with almost every one of them. Starboy will not or refuses to see the difference between a single cell and a fertilized ovum. No arguing with someone who will not open their minds. I see what he's saying but don't see how the obvious escapes him. A single cell has no potential for life, a fertilized cell does.

A fertilized egg is a single cell. Their numerality is identical. Now you may talk about the differences between a single skin cell and an egg cell but they are both one cell. And one cell can not in any way be a human being.

Starboy

[carriew]

maybe not to you

I believe it is...

Prove me wrong with real facts...

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew maybe not to you I believe it is... Prove me wrong with real facts...

It is a fact that for any other species no one confuses the egg cell with the organism, i.e. chicken egg and a chicken.

Starboy

[carriew]

Quote by: Starboy It is a fact that for any other species no one confuses the egg cell with the organism, i.e. chicken egg and a chicken. Starboy

I beg to differ see i have words the same as you. as what I say has no facts other than the fact that poeple also agree with me I challange you again. Other than your words PROVE IT>

[Starboy]

You are asking for something silly like proving gravity. You do not prove reality, you discover it. Go explore reality some and learn something about biology and then come back.

Starboy

[carriew]

I do live in reality and when my egg gets fertilized I leave it alone and it pops out a fully formed human I have to do nothing escept be me for this to happen. It just does.

I think you are the one who needs a biology lesson.

Dont try to insult my intellegence. It wont work.

I will not back down or go away quietly. No matter what you may think,lol. go try to insult someone else.

As I know it you have never presented any proof that the fertilized ovum is anything other than an alive member of the species.

the facts you speak of only make sense in your head because in reality I see babies being aborted not singlecelled orginisims.

the only point in time that it is a single cell is during fertilization once that process is complete it DIVIDES. it is growing liveing member of that species and if you interrupt its life/growing cycle you are killing it.

Only by a technicality in the language and laws is killing something thus ending its life not considered murder.

I feel sorry for people who still do not understand this.

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew I do live in reality and when my egg gets fertilized I leave it alone and it pops out a fully formed human I have to do nothing escept be me for this to happen. It just does. I think you are the one who needs a biology lesson. Dont try to insult my intellegence. It wont work. I will not back down or go away quietly. No matter what you may think,lol. go try to insult someone else. As I know it you have never presented any proof that the fertilized ovum is anything other than an alive member of the species. the facts you speak of only make sense in your head because in reality I see babies being aborted not singlecelled orginisims. the only point in time that it is a single cell is during fertilization once that process is complete it DIVIDES. it is growing liveing member of that species and if you interrupt its life/growing cycle you are killing it. Only by a technicality in the language and laws is killing something thus ending its life not considered murder. I feel sorry for people who still do not understand this.

A human egg is a potential human being but it is not a human being. As many as 50% of fertilized eggs abort naturally yet no one cares that they usually end up being flushed down the toilet. No one is required to report the death or get a death certificate. That is because no one thinks it is a human being. Those cells never became a human being. Many never divide and many divide a few times and stop.

The Koreans have several times now taken the nucleus of a human skin cell and replaced the DNA of an unfertilized egg and created a conceptus that started dividing normally. They stopped the process after a few days but all indications are that if they implanted that into a uterus it would develop into a baby. The status of a human being has nothing to do with how the original cell that developed into a human being came to be. It is only a human being when it has developed into a human being.

Please stop playing silly games by feeling sorry for me. Otherwise do not get upset when I comment on how ignorant you are.

Starboy

[SoccerfreakAB2]

Quote by: MerlinsByte mb writes...What’s wrong with the above quote/paragraph? read the modifed quote below for answer. The religious philosophies love life (much more than death?) so much that they will do anything (not doing something to save a child is repugnant) to preserve (life) it, even if it means hurting the (making them responsible for their actions rather than blaming the baby) family. Who wants to live 5 years (I do and you cant ask the baby but I suppose it would answer in the affirmative, who knows in 4 years we might fix any problem.) ? You just start to begin understanding (and loving life) your surroundings by that time. It's more sad(its not convenient to raise the child so lets kill it) to see a life (allowed to live and grow up) forced to live (rather than give it death sentence) than it is seeing a (90% likely to live and grow up) possible life die (murdered by a uncaring mommy or daddy). Sorry I don’t buy it. Abortion? only in cases or rape, maybe, or the mothers life being endangered. Not for birth control or because its convenient. Abortiobn is criminal and repugnant

Next time you write a paragraph, don't use so many parentheses. Makes you look bad. You are making them responsible for their actions by killing the baby anyways. You are killing their child. I think that's a pretty hard thing to do for a mother. Who said it's the baby's fault? It's the parents fault, and don't forget it. So now they will be robbed of their child forever.

No, it would not answer your question either, it is too young. It doesn't even know what or who it is yet. And in the mother's stomach it hardly knows a thing. It doesn't know life. It doesn't know death. If the child were to live, the child would be inflicted upon society (explained earlier) and would live like anyone else, and die like anyone else, with the possible infliction damaging its own life. Why a single organism matters so much to society is beyond me. There's 6 billion others out there. It is more criminal to see a possible human being inflicted upon society than it is to see a fertilized egg let loose from living life.

[carriew]

Quote by: Starboy \ As many as 50% of fertilized eggs abort naturally yet no one cares that they usually end up being flushed down the toilet. No one is required to report the death or get a death certificate. Starboy

Acutally you are worng again.


25% Abort natually the other 25% are aborted thru medical or surgical means..


I know many many women who have had very early miscarrages who are devistated. I dont know anyone who has said oh forget it thank goodness. I know women who have had miscarrages after only 1 day of being late for thier periods and haveing a posivite test they are devistated not indefferent. not because they passed an unfertilized cell but because they lost thier BABY> I can have some of the women from my tubal reversal board come here just to demonstrate this point to you let me know if i need to do that ok.

I did not have a problem with you THINKING i am ignorant I do however have a problem with people calling me pissy when I speak and that is the only reason your insult came into play at all. so dont fool yourself lol.

and if its after viability they most certianly get a death certificate. One of my dearest freinds had a baby in school sadly the baby died inutero and she had to be induced and deliver she was given a birth and death certificate and had to bury her son. she was just around 7mnths. they did not flush him down the toilet I assure you!

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew I did not have a problem with you THINKING i am ignorant I do however have a problem with people calling me pissy when I speak and that is the only reason your insult came into play at all. so dont fool yourself lol.

When did I call you pissy? Please quote it for me and link the post.

Starboy

[carriew]

you did not promethis (sp?sorry) did in another thread
I was replying to when I was chewed out for calling you silly...

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew you did not promethis (sp?sorry) did in another thread I was replying to when I was chewed out for calling you silly...

It was confusing because you made the statement in a post where you quoted me.

Starboy

[carriew]

I am sorry

[MerlinsByte]

Next time you write a paragraph, don't use so many parentheses

It was a parody, to show the folly of the authors words.

No one has answered when the egg cell or fetus becomes self aware. Anyone care to answer that?

If no one can then one must admit that an abortion at any stage in pregnancy may be killing a self aware being, and this does not take into account (for the religious types) when the soul is instilled.

So I ask a simple question and no one has the answer?

mb

[northtexan]

Quote by: carriew I do live in reality and when my egg gets fertilized I leave it alone and it pops out a fully formed human I have to do nothing escept be me for this to happen. It just does. I think you are the one who needs a biology lesson. Dont try to insult my intellegence. It wont work. I will not back down or go away quietly. No matter what you may think,lol. go try to insult someone else. As I know it you have never presented any proof that the fertilized ovum is anything other than an alive member of the species. the facts you speak of only make sense in your head because in reality I see babies being aborted not singlecelled orginisims. the only point in time that it is a single cell is during fertilization once that process is complete it DIVIDES. it is growing liveing member of that species and if you interrupt its life/growing cycle you are killing it. Only by a technicality in the language and laws is killing something thus ending its life not considered murder. I feel sorry for people who still do not understand this.

Well, you're a wonder of science. Unlike other animals, no maternal directions affect the development of your fetuses -- they're purely self-programmed. You have no chance of having twins, nor of spontaneously aborting. You must implant simutaneously with fertilization. You must be able to eat and drink, and act, however you like during pregnancy, because none of that affects your reproduction. Hey, I'm surprised that a fully-formed baby isn't born to you an hour after fertilization.

Now, to get back to humanity, when a human egg is fertilized, its early development is guided by the mother's body; and through the entire pregnancy, its development is determined by, so highly-sensitive to, the nutrition reaching it. The fertilized egg may develop into a single person; or if it splits, it may develop into two or more persons. Two fertilized eggs, on the rare occasions that they occur, can even merge to form a single person. What divides and keeps dividing has no consciousness, no thoughts at all, initially no sensations. It cannot possibly have such things until it has a working brain, at about 22 weeks. After that, it might develop consciousness, self-consciousness, in effect become a person. We don't know (but we can give the benefit of the doubt). Before that, it is not a human person, cannot be a human person.

Oh, yeah, about giving the benefit of the doubt at 22 weeks or so: that would seem laudible. True, we would have to balance any possible rights conferred at this point against those of an undoubted human person -- the mother; but we might well consider making abortion more difficult at this point, limiting it to cases where a mother's right to life or health clearly outweighed that of a fetus with a working brain. There oughta be a law. Actually, there is a ruling to that effect; it's called ... oh yes, Roe v. Wade.