Does life begin at conception? I think it does.

[jai_lyn7249]

starboy i was wrong on saying your mother shouldve killed you i agree with you there when im wrong i say im wrong but i do believe a tiny clump of cells is a human that tiny clump of cells is what brought you here..
i do have two kids and my tubes are tied. two is my limit and yes you are right about expenses. kids are not cheap but i went about it in a better way i didnt go out there and keep having sex without protection because i know my limits and other people should get a grip on reality and stop having unprotected sex if they dont want kids.....

[Starboy]

Quote by: jai_lyn7249 starboy i was wrong on saying your mother shouldve killed you i agree with you there when im wrong i say im wrong but i do believe a tiny clump of cells is a human that tiny clump of cells is what brought you here..

Good. We both agree we should not be advocating killing people. But even you seem to understand that there is a difference between the potential for a human being and a human being itself. We must be very careful about giving too much reverence to potential human life and not enough reverence to existing human life. As our knowledge of life improves just about every kind of human cell there is will have the potential to be a human being. There is no way that we would want to see all those potential human beings realized. Abortion is just one of the ways we can use to keep that from happening. As the world becomes more crowed we can no longer afford to think with our wombs.

Starboy

[jai_lyn7249]

yeah so protect yourselves dont kill

[Starboy]

Quote by: jai_lyn7249 yeah so protect yourselves dont kill

Ending the life of a potential human being is not the same as ending the life of a human being. And as far as killing is concerned if you are alive you kill life every day. That is how you survive. The dirtly little fact that everyone seems to ignore is that life kills life. But people should learn to make the distinction between life in general and the life of a human being.

Starboy

[carriew]

I believe that life starts at the moment of conception...

I also believe with every new life there is a being that was not there before...

A being that should have rights the same as another being of that species...


I also believe that in cases of rape and incest it is best to let nature take its course...
(in reguards to any pregnancy that would follow) hopefully in the case of rape and incest the victim should be protected and the perpetratior should be persecuted hopefully it would be early enough if they did not want to continue any possible pregnancy to use a preventive measure to prevent implantion like the morning after pill* within 24 hrs or so. before implantion is my point...as this itself is a form of abortion in my view it is the only acceptable time or circumstance and even if I was in that place i would NOT have an abortion...

in reguards to a tubal pregnancy molar pregnancy as they can not result in a full term live birth and can end in the death of the mother I belive that it is not abortion to have the fetus removed at this point due to the outcome of the medical issues involved...


but abortion as a means of birth control is not in any way right...I am of the firm belief that you had sex knowing that this was a possibity now live with the consequences... if you cannot raise the child find someone suitable to do it for you...

at any time that a mothers life is in jeopardy a c-section is the fastest and easiest way to deliver and stabilize the situatuon. Most pray thier babies are strong enough to survive not have themselves dialated over a few days to have thier children killed inches from live birth or killed before hand to ensure they never live to see the light of day... as someone who was very ill with hypertention during 2 pregnancies they prepared me from week 4 I may lose her(though noone kenw she was a girl yet I did) I prayed everyday to get past 24 weeks so if i had an emergency my DAUGHTER would have a chance to survive...

I am a woman 28 yrs old with 2 kids and I was prochoice for many many years. I never had an abortion thank god. but I could have... I never never knew. I believed the misguided story that its just a blob and a womans choice... even after I had kids I still thought it was someones choice untill I saw the truth...



*(this is not even close to a week 8 or 10 abortion or later for that fact what is done to the BABY after abortion (google it sometime)whatever you believe is present is definatly inhumane and disgusing)

[carriew]

Quote by: Starboy The dirtly little fact that everyone seems to ignore is that life kills life. Starboy

I try really hard not to...I do kill things that are a threat like bacteria,viruses and mosquitoes if they bite me or my kids...insects that come into my home(though we save spiders lol)

I am the person who feels bad killing ants inside her house and is really against putting posion outside to keep them away...

There is a HUGE difference in killing something to survive and killing something for any other reason...

and getting rid of a pregnancy thru a surgical abortion is never the right answer to any question or problem i have even known.
and I mean life and death if I dont kill it now I am gonna die not lets exterminate poor people instead of find a way to feed them...

[MerlinsByte]

by starboy...Ending the life of a potential human being is not the same as ending the life of a human being. And as far as killing is concerned if you are alive you kill life every day.

This is not for you to decide, Starboy. Many people disagree you , millions if not billions. (every time I say or type the word billions I think about my favorite atheist Carl Sagan) anyway....

Its not known to science or the even the most devout theists , when the fertilized cell(s) become self aware. So, this question of self awarness is the only question of abortion.

If you terminate self aware human you should be charged with murder.

mb

[atheist]

If life began at conception I would be considered nine months older than I am currently. Which means that my "official" birth date would be about three months away from the date of today. Cool.

I believe that life begins at conception, but this does not mean that the life that was started would be much of an issue in life/death decisions only until the fetus has a FULLY developed nervous system (central moreso than peripheral). To me if the fetus has not developed these organs than I would not care to think twice if the thing were eliminated or not, because that fetus would be much the same as any other fetus of any other species. And I eat meat so I don't care much for the lives of domesticated animals either. Meat is murder? Yep, but i need my protein. But let's not digress from the issue here...now I am rambling inane comments...
Anyway, I would not see the elimination of an un-developed fetus as a crime.
Concerning the issue of abortion, I find it very amusing how many men are inconsiderate of the rights of their social "equals"................I would like to see them go through pregnancy some day. one day. whenever.

People with naieve notions of ones' right-to-life are deluded. I understand that taking such a position would seem noble, but that is not really how the world works. Besides, the world is overpopulated enough as it is and I would like to see the children that i choose to exist in my life inherit a relatively less damaged/polluted earth. Selfish? maybe it is and maybe it isn't, no one can judge me but myself.

Many women have abortions because the fetus they are incubating are not wanted or cannot be taken care of properly. Being that the fetus does not develop a central nervous system, it is more kind to abort an unwanted child (with an unfair future) than to keep it alive and shuck it into a foster home (many children are abused in these homes than you would like to think..it's a bit disturbing) or bad environment.

[MerlinsByte]

To me if the fetus has not developed these organs than I would not care to think twice if the thing were eliminated or not, because that fetus would be much the same as any other fetus of any other species

This is the problem. It is human , you dont know if it is self aware do you? A simple one line question. How can you be sure when the "thing" as you call it becomes self aware?

tell me pleasssssssssssssse?

mb

[atheist]

"This is the problem. It is human , you dont know if it is self aware do you? A simple one line question. How can you be sure when the "thing" as you call it becomes self aware??"

EASY!!! In order for something to be self aware it must have a brain (or more specifically a brainstem and the beginnings of a spinal cord). A fetus that had not developed its central nervous system (meaning NO established brainstem) does not have the abililty to be "self aware" in any sense -whatsoever-. Besides, even if the brainstem and spinal cord were established within a fetus, without frontal lobes, if you're talking about 'self awareness' in the emotional sense, well, it is simply impossible.

[MerlinsByte]

EASY!!! In order for something to be self aware it must have a brain (or more specifically a brainstem and the beginnings of a spinal cord).

Hmmm' can you give me a source, because I would be curious as to who has established when and where consciousness, or self awarness ,begins or originates.While its true that the cortical mantle is responsible for the "higher" brain functions there is no proof where self awareness originates. Now there are incomplete and untestable theorys, none have been accepted as fact.

mb

[atheist]

"Hmmm' can you give me a source, because I would be curious as to who has established when and where consciousness, or self awarness ,begins or originates.While its true that the cortical mantle is responsible for the "higher" brain functions there is no proof where self awareness originates. Now there are incomplete and untestable theorys, none have been accepted as fact. "

Take some biology courses. This is purely COMMON KNOWLEDGE that many people educated in bio. or psy. will be taught.

There is proof. You can look it up yourself in a book or something.

Speaking of, lets see a "person" function and be self aware without a brain. Ever see that occur? I didn't think so.

[Flip Jackson]

I think one important thing to point out is the reason for most abortions. It usually isn't the mother's life. It is her convenience. This is the problem. You do not have the right to destroy even the potential for life, just becuase it isn't convenient for you to have a kid. If the mother's physical or emotional state is in jeopardy, then abortion is up to her. But abortion for convenience sake is a way to go without facing the consequences of choices.

Men and women can both decide how important life is, or even the potential for life. While men do not know the pains of child birth, women should think before they have sex with someone they don't want to have a kid with. Men are pigs often and don't care. It is the women's job to realize that, by making this choice, I could bring a kid into the world and cause myself pain. Men should think more, too, but unfortunately they don't see the responsibility.

As long as abortion is used to make life more convenient and make promiscuity easier, it will be morally wrong. Whether it destroys life itself or the potential for life isn't a question at all when "convenience" is involved. Potential for life overides the pain and inconvenience a person might experience. If you don't want the kid, let it live and try to find other parents for it.

[belverron]

Quote by: jai_lyn7249 hiya carrie its about time........LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!! starboy i think you should educate yourdelf alittle more before you going tearing apart a subject you know nothing about ... i think the reason you say abortion is ok is because you dont have the means to raise a beautiful innocent HUMAN BEING.. i think your views on life suck and maybe you should pick up a bible and read it more often... if you had enough sense in your head you would know to kill a life means you dont cherish the one god gave you and that is wrong my friend....

jai_lyn, why don't you attack the argument instead of its poster?

[CJFreeman]

Quote by: belverron jai_lyn, why don't you attack the argument instead of its poster?

Is that actually done on this board? The few times I've seen it, no-one responds to the posts. I guess it's easier to pick on people than what they say. Less mental effort.

Christopher J. Freeman

[Matt W]

jai_lyn, I've sent you a PM. Read it, and DO NOT engage in any more personal attacks. You post to a thread if you have something to contribute, otherwise you leave well alone.

Do not respond to me within this thread. PM myself or Sean if you have any questions.

[Starboy]

Quote by: carriew I try really hard not to...I do kill things that are a threat like bacteria,viruses and mosquitoes if they bite me or my kids...insects that come into my home(though we save spiders lol) I am the person who feels bad killing ants inside her house and is really against putting posion outside to keep them away... There is a HUGE difference in killing something to survive and killing something for any other reason...

You live in a bubble. There are all sorts of people who kill for you by proxy. And if you eat plant life you kill plenty. Why should it be okay to kill plants but not ants? There is no way you can live on the earth and not kill billions of cells daily and have billions more killed for you by proxy. And you could not survive as a living creature unless you did.

and getting rid of a pregnancy thru a surgical abortion is never the right answer to any question or problem i have even known.

Only if you confuse the potential of a human being with a human being itself. You flush down the toilet every day millions of potential human beings, where is your outrage? It is the dirty fact that everyone appears to ignore. And this discussion would not be taking place unless people confused the potential of a human being with the human being itself. If the life of the human being would be better off by aborting the potential human being I say go for it. We have to look after the living human beings first before we concern ourselves with the potential human beings. It is not as if we have any trouble at all at bringing human beings into the world from potential human beings. Every day we get better at it and every day the world gets more crowded.

Starboy

[carriew]

funny this bubble looks an awful lot like a house to me..lol

and you quoted my reply out of my post (read more carefully please)it is my belief that killing something to maintain your existance is hugely different than killing for any inconvience or chioce of want.

anyway I was only stating my opinions you can agree or disagree they are my beliefs and I had a right to state them...

now to the matter at hand I never said I dont kill any life I said I try not to... and I do are you calling me a liar... the question as I understood it was in the context of human life not plant life or regularly excreeted human cells. I specifically said A PEGNANCY I also said that it was not an answer to a problem I have never known If someone else thinks it is I amnot here to judge thats what god is for and if there is no god then I guess im wrong in my opinion I have been wrong before and I am sure it will happen again. after I die maybe ill haunt the truth back to ya...but fact is I DONT KNOW IT WAS MY OPINION GET OVER IT AND JUST DISAGREE LOL dont tell me i live in a bubble. You live in a cave there am I right now?

[carriew]

Quote by: Starboy Only if you confuse the potential of a human being with a human being itself. You flush down the toilet every day millions of potential human beings, where is your outrage? Starboy

I do not flush my fertilized ovum down the toilet.

and if you are in anyway confused by my first post..

I am the one who thinks *not confuses* that a fertilized ovum is different from the unfertilized egg i shed every month. actually I would say I know because there are only a few of us in this conversation that have the biological capabilities to do what you think.. and I sir am one. so dont you presume to tell me that your OPINION is better than mine.

[carriew]

and before anyone even starts I am a horrible speller and I hate spellcheck!!! lmbo