Does life begin at conception? I think it does.

[pikatore]

Quote by: fushigi In your view, this isn't murder, right? Because he's still a few hours away from full consciousness.

Yep.

[fushigi]

Quote by: pikatore Yep.

He's partially conscious. That doesn't bother you?

[sevendogs]

Whatever religious or ideological teachers may think, in a free society, freedom wins. Freedom to choose what to buy and how to live. Interests of adults have a priority over empathy to embryos. If you worry about killing fetuses, do not make them. Why you would not want to castrate yourself to stop these disastrous consequences? Men and women enjoy sex, but it comes not free. Family planning, abortions will stay, because they are necessary for enjoyment of life by the adults.

[pikatore]

Quote by: fushigi He's partially conscious. That doesn't bother you?

Hes not 'partially' conscious. It isn't like he's waking up from a sleep. Its that his brain hasn't even developed yet, and until the cortex is finished developing, he lacks a brainwave - the ultimate indicator that his brain has switched on.

[livefree]

I think some of you anti-abortionists need to ask yourselves: 'if my life began at conception, how come I don't have a life?'

[fushigi]

Quote by: pikatore Hes not 'partially' conscious. It isn't like he's waking up from a sleep. Its that his brain hasn't even developed yet, and until the cortex is finished developing, he lacks a brainwave - the ultimate indicator that his brain has switched on.

Come on, that's a facetious argument and you know it. That's like saying a car whose engine has never been started isn't a real car and can be justifiably demolished. It's still a car because it has the potential to start up.

[fushigi]

Quote by: livefree I think some of you anti-abortionists need to ask yourselves: 'if my life began at conception, how come I don't have a life?'

livefree, welcome to Volconvo. Please read the rules:
http://www.volconvo.com/forums/philo...uncements.html

This site's main objective: To promote constructive debate between people with contrasting ideologies. People often think that the name implies violent debate. This is not true. The debate is "heated" because of the provocative issues and the contrast of the opinions present. This is a not a forum for insults, spam, etc.

Hope your posts in the future contain a bit more substance.

[pikatore]

Quote by: fushigi Come on, that's a facetious argument and you know it. That's like saying a car whose engine has never been started isn't a real car and can be justifiably demolished. It's still a car because it has the potential to start up.

You have that analogy slightly out of tune. The car is still in the process of being built at the factory. Therefore, it doesnt yet have the potential to start up. Want to pursue that path any further?

[fushigi]

Quote by: pikatore You have that analogy slightly out of tune. The car is still in the process of being built at the factory. Therefore, it doesnt yet have the potential to start up. Want to pursue that path any further?

You're right that my analogy's a bit off. But I'd say yours is, too, since it's only a matter of time before the engine parts - left on their own and not destroyed - develop into a working motor.

My point is that even a car that's not fully working - but is on its way - is still a car. I don't call a car with a bad starter or a thrown rod something else - it's still a car.

[Yasa]

I agree with Pik on this matter. Potential for life is quite different than life by my books. True life, according to me, requires consciousness and memories. I don't get arrested for masterbating.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Yasa I agree with Pik on this matter. Potential for life is quite different than life by my books. True life, according to me, requires consciousness and memories. I don't get arrested for masterbating.

I have never heard of any medical case in which sperm alone developed into a human being. It does not meet the qualifications of "potential for life."

[Yasa]

Quote by: fushigi I don't get arrested for masterbating.

I have never heard of any medical case in which sperm alone developed into a human being. It does not meet the qualifications of "potential for life."[/quote]

Why not? I've never heard of embryos developping into a human being on their own either. Based on my definition of life, both are merely potential for life.

[fushigi]

Quote by: fushigi I have never heard of any medical case in which sperm alone developed into a human being. It does not meet the qualifications of "potential for life."

Quote by: Yaba Why not? I've never heard of embryos developping into a human being on their own either.

I never claimed embryos develop into a human being on their own. But just because they are reliant on external support for survival does not make them something other than human. People on life support are certainly human.

[Yasa]

Quote by: fushigi I never claimed embryos develop into a human being on their own. But just because they are reliant on external support for survival does not make them something other than human. People on life support are certainly human.

No, but the fact that they are not truly alive by my definition means they are only potential.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Yasa No, but the fact that they are not truly alive by my definition means they are only potential.

We call this fallacy "begging the question." It's when an unproven assumption is used to support the truth of another conclusion.

How is a fetus not "alive"?

[Yasa]

Quote by: fushigi We call this fallacy "begging the question." It's when an unproven assumption is used to support the truth of another conclusion. How is a fetus not "alive"?

Well by your definition of life it is. But so are my skin cells. Am I committing murder when I purposely cut myself?

Note: I'm not emo and was just using that as an example.

A fetus is not alive because it does not have the brain activity necessary for consciousness or memories--which are what I define "true" life to be.

[fushigi]

Quote by: Yasa A fetus is not alive because it does not have the brain activity necessary for consciousness or memories--which are what I define "true" life to be.

Hmm... flowers and plants are alive...
Are flowers and plants alive?

[pikatore]

Quote by: fushigi Hmm... flowers and plants are alive... Are flowers and plants alive?

Straw man. Flowers and plants, and basically any other animals apart from humans technically don't have rights set in stone. We do. That's why this debate exists, I believe.

[fushigi]

Quote by: pikatore Straw man. Flowers and plants, and basically any other animals apart from humans technically don't have rights set in stone. We do. That's why this debate exists, I believe.

Not really a straw man. Yasa claimed fetuses aren't alive.

[pikatore]

Quote by: fushigi Not really a straw man. Yasa claimed fetuses aren't alive.

They are alive on a purely biological level, on a micro level, but as actul human beings, well, they don't exist yet. They are precursors.