Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

pikatore · Feb 21, 2007, 09:38 pm

i am still pro-choice, and will always be pro-choice.

syc-sadist · Feb 21, 2007, 09:48 pm

i just think it's a personal issue between partners involved. It shouldn't be argued about by people outside that. IF you don't believe in abortion then don't abort. But to many problems are caused by people trying to enforce there beliefs onto someone else.

pikatore · Feb 21, 2007, 09:49 pm

Exactly, which is why the choice should be available to the couple to abort the child, without restrictions. If it doesn't float your boat, then don't do it. But don't enforce your opinion on other people.

syc-sadist · Feb 21, 2007, 09:52 pm

totally agreed

Praxius · Feb 22, 2007, 10:05 am

Quote:

Quote by: gopchick

and if you feel like life is not so precious then maybe you should be the one to concentrate on those living on the world now so he can understand that life is a blessing and a miracle.

Maybe I just don't care in general and I just feel it should be up to those it affects.

gopchick · Feb 22, 2007, 11:58 am

Quote:

Quote by: Praxius

Maybe I just don't care in general and I just feel it should be up to those it affects.

Then why do you voice your opinion? If you don't care that is?

Praxius · Feb 22, 2007, 01:04 pm

Quote:

Quote by: gopchick

Then why do you voice your opinion? If you don't care that is?

I'm voicing my opinion that it should be the choice of those who are affected by the situation, and other people should have no rights to impose their beliefs onto them.

I'm also expressing the contradictions people tend to have towards saving an unborn fetus compared to those already living a life and have much more important challenges to face.

I just don't understand the logic where we need to protect the rights and the life of someone who hasn't been born yet, and forget about those living now, who without equal help and care, will just increase the termoil in the world that these new children are being brought into.

Shouldn't we be more concerned about helping and bettering those who live now, so that when these kids are brought into the world, they have a better world to look forward to? With this logic, we should be spitting out kids and making sure they survive, regardless of the situation, and adding more people to the problems that have yet to be solved.

namguy69 · Feb 22, 2007, 01:12 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Praxius

I'm voicing my opinion that it should be the choice of those who are affected by the situation, and other people should have no rights to impose their beliefs onto them.

I'm also expressing the contradictions people tend to have towards saving an unborn fetus compared to those already living a life and have much more important challenges to face.

I just don't understand the logic where we need to protect the rights and the life of someone who hasn't been born yet, and forget about those living now, who without equal help and care, will just increase the termoil in the world that these new children are being brought into.

Shouldn't we be more concerned about helping and bettering those who live now, so that when these kids are brought into the world, they have a better world to look forward to? With this logic, we should be spitting out kids and making sure they survive, regardless of the situation, and adding more people to the problems that have yet to be solved.

So many opinions, keeps going around and around.

pikatore · Feb 22, 2007, 01:23 pm

My opinion is to let the opinion of the woman carrying the embryo stand, and not enforce our thoughts on it.

gopchick · Feb 22, 2007, 01:49 pm

Quote:

Quote by: pikatore

My opinion is to let the opinion of the woman carrying the embryo stand, and not enforce our thoughts on it.

So it is ok for you to force your thoughts on us in the mean time??

Double standard - you can't make everyone happy - that is impossible.

We need to educate people across the board and make stricter laws.

For example - people should not use abortion as a means of birth control.

Osborn F Enready · Feb 22, 2007, 02:44 pm

Quote:

gopchick said:
We need to educate people across the board and make stricter laws.

That will only increase rebellion, which is the opposite of what you want, right?

Praxius · Feb 22, 2007, 03:08 pm

Quote:

Quote by: gopchick

So it is ok for you to force your thoughts on us in the mean time??

Nobody is forcing their thoughts on you..... if you want or don't want an abortion, it would be your choice. Any restrictions or laws would be forcing it one way or another.

Quote:

Double standard - you can't make everyone happy - that is impossible.

Indeed.... but making laws so that everybody has to follow one path, rather then give them the option, will make even more people unhappy.

Quote:

We need to educate people across the board and make stricter laws.

For example - people should not use abortion as a means of birth control.

Great, more laws....

Osborn F Enready · Feb 23, 2007, 01:33 pm

Some thoughts on abortion....

*Individual choice allows all individuals to choose their own path, of free-will, without the use of force.

*Laws that ban abortion, use force via government threat of guns, property/asset forfeiture, and taxation to inflict the will of ONE GROUP upon all others under that law.

If this was truly religiously motivated, we should see a motivation towards choice, should we not?

Is it not our choice to find "god" on our own?

Aren't religious sheperds really sneaking unpure people into heaven by preventing them the chance to make a choice, which would reveal their true constitution?

Is this a resurgence of witch burnings and crusades of war bidding angels to do the work of devils, in the name of divinity?

brien · Feb 23, 2007, 01:55 pm

Quote:

Some thoughts on abortion....

Abortion is a choice between life and the termination of life.

Abortion should be a decision between a female and a male made of their own free will.

Abortion will always remain in the minds of those who choose it and it will follow them until the day they die. It can never be reversed and will never go away. Choose carefully.

Abortion is not a matter involving the government.

Abortion or pro-life should not be forced upon anyone.

Abortion or pro-life should not be the sole ground of intolerant extremists.

shawmutt · Feb 23, 2007, 01:59 pm

And in a shameless plug, does life begin at conception?

Here's my answer, my wife's first ultrasound from Tuesday

syc-sadist · Feb 23, 2007, 10:31 pm

congratulations ^ ^

pikatore · Feb 24, 2007, 06:25 pm

Quote:

Quote by: gopchick

So it is ok for you to force your thoughts on us in the mean time??

I'm not forcing anything, my POSITION is that thoughts shouldnt be forced on the mother, the person who should be making the choice, since it's her embryo. I don't see how you can call that double standards.

Quote:

Quote by: gopchick

Double standard - you can't make everyone happy - that is impossible.

That's not what a double standard is. I'm not aiming to make everyone happy.

I'm aiming to stop people from forcing a choice that the mother should make, hence pro-choice, therefore, no CONTROL over other people's choice. Hence, no double standards at all.

Dirty Name · Feb 24, 2007, 08:18 pm

Quote:

I'm voicing my opinion that it should be the choice of those who are affected by the situation

Exactly how I feel, too.

Oh. Except, one of those affected by the situation is the child inside the womb.

Dirty Name · Feb 24, 2007, 08:24 pm

Quote:

Abortion or pro-life should not be forced upon anyone.

What sickens us pro-lifers is that abortion IS forced upon someone - the unborn child.

Sheesh. I guess I just don't see why this is so hard to grasp. All you have to do is look at what is happening in Wichita, Kansas, at Tiller's late-term abortion clinic to know that abortion is disgusting, and wrong.

There simply is no argument. People who are for abortion on demand either have never really thought about it or they are evil.

And when I say "never really thought about it," I mean it. Don't just give me your pie-in-the-sky philosophical opinion. Learn about what is happening at abortion clinics, the methods used to end the life of the child. Then tell me that it's morally OK to do that to a child.

Aino Ailill · Feb 24, 2007, 11:00 pm

Quote:

Quote by: gopchick

So it is ok for you to force your thoughts on us in the mean time??

Double standard - you can't make everyone happy - that is impossible.

We need to educate people across the board and make stricter laws.

For example - people should not use abortion as a means of birth control.

1 - It is birth control in its truest form. It controls the birth of the fetus in aborting it.
2 - Why should it not be used as such? Why should it be enforced that it is not used as such?

View Poll Results: When does life begin?
At conception	245	45.79%
At birth	128	23.93%
Other..explain	162	30.28%
Voters: 535. You may not vote

Feb 21, 2007, 09:38 pm	#2101 (permalink) (top)
pikatore A Celestial Monkey Location: In England Posts: 1,540	i am still pro-choice, and will always be pro-choice. "Cheese is a kind of meat, a tasty yellow beef" - Mighty Boosh Economic Left/Right: -0.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.38

Feb 21, 2007, 09:48 pm	#2102 (permalink) (top)
syc-sadist Sycsadist Location: Adelaide, Morphet Vale Posts: 48	i just think it's a personal issue between partners involved. It shouldn't be argued about by people outside that. IF you don't believe in abortion then don't abort. But to many problems are caused by people trying to enforce there beliefs onto someone else. "it would be great for me to hav a women who wld cook n clean for me, but tht dsn't mean i think they should... ...like how it would be great to have a slave, but that doesn't mean i condone slavery"

Feb 21, 2007, 09:49 pm	#2103 (permalink) (top)
pikatore A Celestial Monkey Location: In England Posts: 1,540	Exactly, which is why the choice should be available to the couple to abort the child, without restrictions. If it doesn't float your boat, then don't do it. But don't enforce your opinion on other people. "Cheese is a kind of meat, a tasty yellow beef" - Mighty Boosh Economic Left/Right: -0.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.38

Feb 21, 2007, 09:52 pm	#2104 (permalink) (top)
syc-sadist Sycsadist Location: Adelaide, Morphet Vale Posts: 48	totally agreed "it would be great for me to hav a women who wld cook n clean for me, but tht dsn't mean i think they should... ...like how it would be great to have a slave, but that doesn't mean i condone slavery"

Feb 22, 2007, 01:23 pm	#2109 (permalink) (top)
pikatore A Celestial Monkey Location: In England Posts: 1,540	My opinion is to let the opinion of the woman carrying the embryo stand, and not enforce our thoughts on it. "Cheese is a kind of meat, a tasty yellow beef" - Mighty Boosh Economic Left/Right: -0.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.38

Feb 23, 2007, 01:33 pm	#2113 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	Some thoughts on abortion.... Individual choice allows all individuals to choose their own path, of free-will, without the use of force. Laws that ban abortion, use force via government threat of guns, property/asset forfeiture, and taxation to inflict the will of ONE GROUP upon all others under that law. If this was truly religiously motivated, we should see a motivation towards choice, should we not? Is it not our choice to find "god" on our own? Aren't religious sheperds really sneaking unpure people into heaven by preventing them the chance to make a choice, which would reveal their true constitution? Is this a resurgence of witch burnings and crusades of war bidding angels to do the work of devils, in the name of divinity? Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Feb 23, 2007, 01:59 pm	#2115 (permalink) (top)
shawmutt Slightly Dangerous Location: Greencastle, PA Posts: 992	And in a shameless plug, does life begin at conception? Here's my answer, my wife's first ultrasound from Tuesday 78% of statistics are made up on the spot. Shawmutt.com. My Blog and Pictures of the Massively Multiplayer Offline game, Real Life.

Feb 23, 2007, 10:31 pm	#2116 (permalink) (top)
syc-sadist Sycsadist Location: Adelaide, Morphet Vale Posts: 48	congratulations ^ ^ "it would be great for me to hav a women who wld cook n clean for me, but tht dsn't mean i think they should... ...like how it would be great to have a slave, but that doesn't mean i condone slavery"