"synchronicity"?

[orgaelin]

Synchronicity is a term, the credit for which is attributed, I believe, to James Redfield, of Celestine Prophecy fame. It refers to the tendency of life to sort of 'bring things together' every once in a while, dropping little coincidences all over the place that seem to steer you in some unforseen direction. (like fate)

Do you believe in it? I'm the sort to maintain a skeptical but open mind - willing to go either way on presentation of suitable evidence.

But weird stuff like this always happens to me. I study life, history, science, etc. but my subject of study at any given time seems to always be handed to me on a plate, almost as though some devine teacher-god is telling me what it wants me to learn!

An example: I am not interested in America as a subject of study, and even less so am I interested in American politics. Hell, I don't even like British politics! But then there was this audio book sat on my hard drive that's been there for months. I didn't even know what it was. It was called "Stupid White Men".

Then the other day I happened to be out of my routine, accompanying my sister-in-law to a shop I don't usually go. In there I noticed a book, the sequel to Stupid White Men. I read the blurb, and it seemed quite interesting.

But then I forgot about it again until yesterday, when I was decorating. I put some music on, but couldn't decide what to play so I got it to scan my hard drive and play any audio files. Then it starts playing "Stupid White Men" and so I decided to listen. I was hooked. It was/is fascinating.

Then the next day I am chatting on volconvo, discussing space-time physics, and someone posts me a link to an explanation of the nature of light. I followed the link but then went straight to the root of the domain (www.nobeliefs.com) and found the most obvious link on the page, right at the top, was a link to "bushflash.com" and I thought it might be funny, like those South-Park flash movies you sometimes see online.

Instead it was a whole huge movement devoted to Bush's downfall and exposing the exact same truths as are outlined in Stupid White Men!

Am I reading too much in to this, or is someone trying to tell me I should study the absolute corruption that is the Bush administration?

[FC Mellon]

Orgaelin....some like to believe 'The Devil is in The Details'
I would imagine if one were to interrogate more deeply why the experiences one feels has/have a certain 'synchronizing resonance' ;?) ....then one might realize that detailed instructions on how to live one's life and for 'one to defeat another' may be the 'work of anyone/someone who doesn't agree with another'...whether it be their 'politics'...'or' even their 'deeds'.
p.s. If I walk out the front door and see a blue marble and I trip...and the next day I walk out the front door and see a blue marble and I trip...and the next day I walk out the front door and see a blue marlble and I trip...imho...doesn't necessary mean the sighting of all blue marlbes mean I will continue to keep tripping.
Maybe the tripping was due to watching the blue marble too much and not keeping one's eye on the proper path to proceed. But then of course one could go out the back door..or not even get up that day...or pick the blue marble and toss it as far away from themselves as they can...especially if they feel there might be some 'spooky superstition' working for the downfall of their existences...or at least their happiness. Blue marlbles...like books can sometimes divert one's attention from the 'truth' when it come to deciding which or even whose advice to take...hee hee. Of course I am just another 'stupid white man' trying to help you see the errors of your way...
}?}

p.s. ..what I forgot to tell you is that this 'sychronicity thingee' you keep mentioning happens to me all the time...and maybe this is why our paths have crossed...but make sure I don't have a 'bag of blue marbles' in my back pocket and I have been setting up these scenarios for my own gain...or even others who might have been placing 'certain books' ;?) in convenient locations at the convenient times to get your attention and who also have an agenda for their own gains...remember...election time keeps getting nearer and nearer...and I would also imagine so will many/some new ways to get anyone's/everyone's attention hoping to 'snarl them with their philosophical/political traps...
8?!
BEWARE of STUPID WHITE MEN...those who read these books and those who write these books....remember...there is usually a hidden agenda to everyone's POV...and everyone's intent. 8?)

[orgaelin]

OK, ok. I suppose I set myself up for that piss-taking session you call a post!

In my defence, I did not say I was an avid believer of the idea. Only that I was open to it if someone showed me appropriate evidence, or might not believe in it if someone showed me evidence to the contrary.

You do illustrate a point of mine quite well; that something can be perceived two ways, and what for some is proof of 'xyz' is for another a total disproof of the same.

To be honest, I think I am in a better position than you because I am able to see either side of the fence. You sit so firmly on your own side that you refuse to even look over the other side. That's fine. But note that whenever there is a fence for people to sit either side of, persons on both sides always have perfectly good reasons why their side is the better one, just like you do, just like believers in synchronicity do.

If I discovered sychronicity to be real, I would then attempt to find some sensible explanation for it. The sub-conscious mind, for example, is quite capable of steering a person without them having any knowledge of it.

Did you ever see the episode of Derren Brown's show where he deliberately set up loads of stimuli for two ad-designers, and then sat back to watch them draw exactly what he had made them draw through the stimuli? It was a brilliant example of how much control the sub-conscious mind has over us. That could easily explain the phenomenon. If someone put up posters of people tripping on blue marbles all along your route to work, you probably would trip at the sight of a well placed marble in your office.

Regardless of the reason behind it, there *is* an observable phenomenon at work here. You can ridicule, or you can question, analyse, and ultimately explain away. But that's the order of understanding among us Stupid White Men isn't it? First ridicule, then reconsider, then take it as accepted fact. (As in the shape of Earth, Human flying machines, etc.)

The bottom line here is that there is an observed phenomonon which is quite able to provide an interesting extra understanding for scientists/psychologists, or alternatively a source of faith and comfort to those who prefer to think in that way. You can choose one or the other, but that makes you closed, because once you've made up your mind you will no longer be open to new evidence or discoveries. That's why I presented my first post with nothing but a question and an example, but not a statement that it was any particular way. Someone else should have come back with what I have said in this second post, but as it happens it seems I might as well talk to myself!

[FC Mellon]

Well...those who know me quite well try frequently to pull me off the fence that you so eloquently accused me of ignoring...and since I enjoy perching on the fence..(which allows me to observe everyone's POV)..almost all of the time...then I will ignore your accusations. Though I find it hard to ingore your interest in using the terms 'piss/pissing' so much....obviously I am overlooking something about 'your depth' when it comes to standing where you do...as opposed to others who appear to be drowning in their own releases....like myself.....so for your gain..I will just 'piss-off'..I would not want anyone to get 'all wet' about their views of their own realities while denying there may be others whose reality may be in synchronization with their beliefs. Of course I can't deny anyone who wants to 'Sync Me' with their ways. ;?)

[orgaelin]

That's an English thing (pissing)

[FC Mellon]

Then is it proper English if I use the term: 'piss-off'
..just curious of course 8?]
..I sure wouldn't want 'anyone' to misinterpret my meaning(s)
..since I am not Enlish...are you referring to 'piddle' or am I still 'puddled' by your meaning?...or 'muddled'?...either way...I appear to still be 'synching in my own ways' I would imagine. Sorry if I do not have the level of understanding worldly things such as 'pissing' as you do...but I am trying to learn...bear with me....not to be confused with 'bare with me'...others may get the wrong idea. 8?)
Didn't 'Jung' also enjoy 'Synchronicity'...or am I mistaken?...again???...and my un'consciousness' is becoming 'collective' again?

[James Bath]

Gentlemen! Gentlemen! (Er-hrum).

It’s just words, my good fellows. Here, have a cigar. You too, FC? Good.

Brandy? Excellent.

I do believe in synchronicity, at least as far as I can believe in anything else. Just believing the sun will rise tomorrow takes a certain amount of faith. Now, with that same amount of faith, I believe the entire universe is connected with itself – we pathetic humans being mixed in with all the rest of it.

That said, let me point out that Newton’s third law of motion states that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. This REACTION (and many a physics teacher will tell you this) actually is not a reaction at all, but a SIMULTANEOUS action. The action-reaction sequence doesn’t happen within a temporal chain of cause and effect – i.e. the cue ball striking the eight ball then the eight ball rolling away – but at the same time, as one unity of activity. The term “action and reaction” is unfortunate and misleading. Either the cue ball or the eight ball can be said to have been the ACTION part of the interaction; and either one could have been called the reaction. It is completely arbitrary which label we place on which one.

It’s all one event happening together.

Anyway, I’m not quite sure how to prove it, yet, but I believe that if any two events in our unified universe are simultaneous – then all things are simultaneous with all other things, by virtue of the fact that there is no absolute empty space, that we’re all touching through forces, gravity, electrical, electromagnetic, etc.

ER, pardon me. I didn’t mean to get carried away like that. This brandy always makes me a little dreamy, and my age sometimes makes me want to go on at the mouth a bit.

“Nuther cigar?

[orgaelin]

Yes, that's proper English... though you may not hear the queen say it often.

I have not a clue where the saying comes from or why.

That does sound familiar - something about Jung and synchronicity. I never said anything about a collective unconsciousness though.

[FC Mellon]

Hi James..thanks...will that be a Cohiba?..just curious! ;?)

Orgaelin...I think Jung used the term 'collective unconscious'..and I was reminded of his thoughts... 8?)

[orgaelin]

James,

I like what you said about action-reaction/cause and effect. I never realised it was perceived to be that way...

Obviously it still doesn't take away from it that one object must be cause and one must be effect, but does that not mean that effect could preceed cause?

I get the feeling we're in the wrong section of the message board here! I'm going to open a new post in science & tech. See you there soon!

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (orgaelin,)
Synchronicity is a term, the credit for which is attributed, I believe, to James Redfield, of Celestine Prophecy fame. It refers to the tendency of life to sort of 'bring things together' every once in a while, dropping little coincidences all over the place that seem to steer you in some unforseen direction. (like fate)<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

The concept of Synchronicity is a little older than symplistic childish new age bogus work Redfield. It was first probably used Christians to describe other religions like Baha'i and Unitarian, who tend to more inclusive of other beliefs. These religions and faiths were accussed of taking beliefs from different religions and making a religion. There were similar accussations made of Christianity that it was an amalgamation of different faiths like Mithraism.

The 'coincidences' were another New Age way to explain the conectiveness of unrelated events to create this synchronicity. Sometimes described as a kind of fatalism or predestination in sayings that 'these things were meant to be'.

[amadeus]

I would say that I have noticed this idea coming up a few times in my life. I have been in situations where I might have attributed things to fate or to the divine, whatever that is.

I have to say though, that being a skeptic, I always will end up attributing that to what it is in the first place. Coincidence, and nothing more. I agree more with your idea of the subconscious being more in charge than any divine power. I'm not very knowledgeable about the sub-conscious, but I hold it in very high regard. It is obviously extremely capable and I think that it is responsible for a lot of things that we attribute to divine intervention, or this "synchronicity".

[orgaelin]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (shunyadragon,)
There were similar accussations made of Christianity that it was an amalgamation of different faiths like Mithraism.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

In that case it was true, however!

Basically Christianity started out as a form of Judaism, modified somewhat by Jesus, who wanted a more liberal faith (i.e. one that would accept an illegitimate child like him)

Then it was further modified by Saul/Paul, the Roman, who preached like a lunatic to get as many converts as possible. I don't know much about Roman religion, but Paul was responsible for much of the initial changes to the original intentions of Jesus and his disciples. It seems like wherever he went, he added a new aspect to Christianity to make it suitable to the locals.

But now we're drifting!

[orgaelin]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (amadeus,)
I agree more with your idea of the subconscious being more in charge than any divine power. I'm not very knowledgeable about the sub-conscious, but I hold it in very high regard. It is obviously extremely capable and I think that it is responsible for a lot of things that we attribute to divine intervention, or this "synchronicity".<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

A chap I know has a story on his web site about a trip to a baseball match where his sub-conscious made an interesting contribution to his day. I have a lot of respect for the guy, and don't believe the story is made up.

Basically, watching the bowler throw, he suddenly got the impression that the ball was going to come towards him. He then held out his hand in an appropriate position and waited. Sure enough the ball came flying through the air and landing exactly in his hand.

It sounds absurd, and even if it is, I still believe it could be possible. The main point is that the unconscious mind is busy every second working things out. Most of the time we don't have access to its thinking, but occasionally we get short-circuits in the brain where information gets sent to the wrong place. (Psychologists use this to explain Deja Vu and out of body experiences)

There was a great example of the subconscious mind at work, again done by Derren Brown. Does anybody in the states know who I'm talking about with this guy? He's a psychological illusionist. He uses very subtle techniques to play all sorts of tricks on people... like the time he went on the tube and made people forget what stations they were getting off at!

Anywho. On one occasion he went into what Americans would call a mall. He was armed with a mic, hooked up the sound system through the mall. No-one listens to this stuff, especially when it's just endless talk about which shops have which deals on, etc. But Brown used a technique where he put seed-words into his sentences, such that every other word made a different sentence to the one he was saying obviously.

Of course no-one notices this stuff, but the subconscious mind is constantly searching for stuff like this - subtle patterns. So any way, Derren Brown is ranting away, and the cameras show that a majority of people are heading towards a main central square in the mall. Some people clearly were not affected, as is the case with hypnotism (of which this was just a form). Then he says "If you want to get this deal, reach for the sky... NOW!" and all of a sudden this huge crowd of people who had no idea why they were there just suddenly shot one hand into the air.

Afterwards they interviewed people, and they all insisted they had no idea what was giong on, or why they put their hands up. They hadn't even noticed the voice over the tannoy.

Brown has a DVD out if you're interested. It features all his previous showsplus some more stuff... you'll probably find it on a file-sharing program like DC++

[Highwayman]

Stick "synchronocity" into Google- I think one of the great Psychologists, Jung, had a great theory about this going...

[Highwayman]

I found an article on it here:

http://www.innerexplorations.com/catchmeta/mys3.htm

There is an anecdote about Jung and Freud I believe, where Jung "predicted" some things, which happened- setting Freud's temper going...

[James Bath]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Highwayman,)
I found an article on it here:

http://www.innerexplorations.com/catchmeta/mys3.htm

There is an anecdote about Jung and Freud I believe, where Jung "predicted" some things, which happened- setting Freud's temper going...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Nice article. Thanks.

[shunyadragon]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (James Bath,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Highwayman,)
I found an article on it here:

http://www.innerexplorations.com/catchmeta/mys3.htm

There is an anecdote about Jung and Freud I believe, where Jung "predicted" some things, which happened- setting Freud's temper going...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Nice article. Thanks.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Yes Jung was likely the one who first popularized the notion of synchoricity and coincidences. I am comfortable with the concept that some things of the unconcious mind are connected, but Jung and others carries this to the extreme. In science I have difficulty with 'Somewhere there must . . .'. This line from the article creates a logical mine field.

Somehow there must be something in the unconscious like an "a priori knowledge." (7)

[Highwayman]

The cat is amongst the pigeons though, with quantum physics disallowing 'mere' observer status, and cause and effect as a given is no more...

We know now that DNA is not just a ticker tape recipe- there are stuff like relative positioning of genes which translates into physical things, etc. We know instinct and behaviour patterns are inherited- how much more? Some people like Nostradamus and Swedenborg might have had access to some perception/knowledge most people do not- yet we know they were 'mere' humans.

Pity the religious witch hunts virtually wiped out all humans with any real special qualities...

[chicagoastronomer]

I think synch has some merits. It is an unknown phenomenon that perhaps we cannot measure.

I too have had experiences such as reaching for the phone when it has not rung yet, coming across a written word exactly when the tv, radio, or another person is saying it, playing hunches etc...

Many mysteries out there to be explored.