Was America Founded Upon The Christian Faith And Religion?

[tinybear]

There has been much talk about the separation of the church and the state. But historically, so the Christians (I'm not one of them by the way) claim, that this is wrong and flies in the face of history. It is said that America was founded upon Christian faiths and beliefs and that trying to remove them from goverment institutions amounts to a denial of the very principles upon which this nation was founded. The time has come, they say, for such principles and values to be revived. What do you think? (Starboy will probably have a fit when he sees this). :)

[Milton Bradley]

The Founding Fathers did recognize some rights as being "God given", and attempted to limit governments intrusion upon those rights, but I think that is the limit of "Christian" influence on our system of laws.


They also sought to limit religions influence on our system of government with the seperation of Church, and State.


That is why the constitution needs to be honored by the government.


Imagine being a Jamacan American, Rastafarian, and (alledgedly illegal) marijuanna is used in your religious rituals. I guess your God given rights are being compromised if the government bans the use of marijuanna.

[tinybear]

The Christians say otherwise. They say that in none of the foundational documents is there a mention of “separation of church and state” – not the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence or any other founding document. In fact, most of the framers of these important documents are quoted over and over again as holding a deep belief in God and need for His guidance through government. Andrew Jackson is quoted as saying, “That Book (the Bible) is the rock on which our Republic rests.” George Washington said, “It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.”

Even our government buildings have inscriptions that show a respect for God and the Bible. The Ten Commandments are hung in the U.S. Supreme Court, the words, “In God We Trust” appears in the Senate and House chambers and the words, “The New Testament according to the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” are on the walls of the Capitol dome.

Over the years, separationist have worked with the courts and have gotten prayer taken out of our public schools, the Ten Commandments removed from court rooms and school rooms, and references to God eliminated from school ceremonies. Attempts have been made to remove the phrase “In God We Trust” from our currency and the phrase “Under God” from the pledge of allegiance. Removal of Christmas nativity scenes and many vestiges of God through America have demonstrated that America’s Christian heritage and religious liberties are under attack.

[Milton Bradley]

Christians say all kinds of illogical things, but that doesn't mean they should always get their way.


I thought to be a good Christian, you were to turn the other cheek, forgive, and forget, not involve yourself with politics, but don't take my word for it, I only studied their bible.


Where in the bible does it say to legislate your opposition into a corner?

[tinybear]

But that's not what they're saying.

[Milton Bradley]

This is why you must think for yourself, and know your enemy.

[tinybear]

Do you agree that America was founded upon Christian principles though?

[Milton Bradley]

Absolutely not, I thought I had made that clear.


Hopefully, more people will recognize that religious fundamentalists are some of the most dangerous people on the planet, and institutionalizing religion would lead us one step closer to becoming what we hate, and what we claim to fight against with the War on Terror.


We also claim our self determination it what makes us great, yet we deny others that very right. So that would fit well into our currrent situation.

[tinybear]

Oh right. So we can ignore these Christian rants, right?

[sourhoot]

They have the right to scream & shout, but they don't have the right to make "their interpretation of what the Bible says" the law of the land which everyone must adhere to.

[tinybear]

They do if this nation was founded on the teachings of the Bible. We'd be the ones who are not entitled to change it.

[Gorgo]

There is of course no mention of Jesus Christ or gods in the Constitution, the document which created this country. One of the earliest treaties, the Treaty of Tripoli says clearly that this nation was not founded on the Christian religion.

[MrOtis]

The Treaty of Tripoli was a document intended to mollify the Islamic pirates of the Barbary Coast that were preying on American shipping (how about that, Muslims were fighting us in the 1790s) simply because they thought that the United States, like the governments of Europe at that time, was the extension of an official state Christian church.

It's clear, however, if you trace the documents of the early colonies that the basis on which we declared independence from Britain was our God-given--key phrase there--rights as men to life, liberty, and property.

Our rights are granted by God, not the government. And any thinking Christian who believes it's a good idea to get the government involved in the business of men's eternal souls, or even to let the government get its hooks into a church by accepting "faith-based initiative" funding, needs to step back and read some history.

Contrary to popular belief, the separation of church and state--a phrase pulled from a private letter written by Thomas Jefferson--was intended to protect churches from the state, not the other way around. The United States federal government, although secular, was designed at a time when a majority of the colonies required anyone seeking election to a state government office to be a member in good standing of a Christian church.

Gee, I wonder if the guys who wrote the Constitution knew that was unconstitutional...

[Gorgo]

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/...r_tripoli.html

[MrOtis]

That's exactly the page I found so I could refresh my memory. Needless to say, I think Dr. Buckner is wrong in his interpretation.

[Gorgo]

If it were founded on the Christian religion, there is no reason to continue that, but it was not. If it were, the document which created this country, the Constitution, would say something about Jesus Christ, or the Bible, or even God. It does not.

[MrOtis]

The very reason for the Constitution, our independence, is predicated on the existence of God. Our rights are inalienable because they are granted by God. If that were untrue, then we had no justification for our rebellion against the king of England.

[Feefer]

[CENTER]The Founding Fathers had quite a few things to say on this issue.[/CENTER]

It is the duty of all men in society, publicly, and at stated seasons, to worship the SUPREME BEING, the great Creator and Preserver of the universe. And no subject shall be hurt, molested, or restrained, in his person, liberty, or estate, for worshipping GOD in the manner most agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience; or for his religious profession or sentiments; provided he doth not disturb the public peace, or obstruct others in their religious worship.

John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776


Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?"

Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention

Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever.

Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 18, 1781


I have often expressed my sentiments, that every man, conducting himself as a good citizen, and being accountable to God alone for his religious opinions, ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience.

George Washington, letter to the General Committee of the United Baptist Churches in Virginia, May, 1789

The FF went to Seperation of Chuch and State, not because they didnt like church, but because they didnt want a state church. They saw what happened with the other contries, all of the church being the leaders and you couldnt vote if you didnt go to church...etc. The FF didnt like that, they wanted FREEDOM.

[Feefer]

Quote by: Gorgo If it were founded on the Christian religion, there is no reason to continue that, but it was not.

No, it was not, why? Because some of the men we elected into the office of President did things to change the course of our nation. Further from God, more toward pleasures of man.

Quote by: Gorgo If it were, the document which created this country, the Constitution, would say something about Jesus Christ, or the Bible, or even God. It does not.

As I mentioned before..they wanted FREEDOM. They didnt like the idea of a state church and to put God-related things in our constitution would give people ammo to say we needed a state church. They also wanted to give each person his rights to worship whichever diety he wanted. But, if you look at the 10 Commandments and you look at a Bible, you will find references like, Dont Steal, Dont Kill, etc. So, that showes that the Constitution WAS based on Scripture.

[Gorgo]

I think you both need to take the quizzes about the Bible and the separation of church and state:

http://www.ffrf.org/quiz/