Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Legalbyte · Oct 29, 2004, 09:46 pm

Hello I am legalbyte,
I was invited to this forum by sean. Please ask him to e mail me on our previous topic and I apologise for being so late in getting here.Remember those of you that can of fight a war our go to jail? well I'm sure this would be an invaluable assest to our armed forces but it is up to the judgeing authority to enforce this policy. I prefer it opposed to a draft that will draw both men and women. I am not implying that those that enter the service under these conditions are chronic never-do-wells. but the rate of rehabilation speaks for itself and the valjues that ate instilled in these candidates may encourage them to become carrer soldiers,
the risks are ther true, but keep in mind enlistment does not mean theater of combat service. and an honorable disachage still carries weight in this country as opposed to a parole officers teher. In korea college students all young men have to do three years oif mandatoryy service. It does not seem tohurt them. This is an effort to retrain and rediret misued assests no life in America is a waste sometimes chace comes from strange venues...

The determination of our 18 year olds is the point , Truly if this is not thought out across the board in all fifty states, then justice can be blind and her scales unbalanced.

Scribbler1 · Oct 29, 2004, 10:32 pm

Hi, Legalbyte, and welcome to Volconvo.

I must admit I am having a tough time understanding your post. Do you think you might boil it down in a few sentences?

Oct 29, 2004, 10:36 pm

I think legalbyte was speaking of the old-fashioned method of rehabilitating youthful offenders thru military service...such as was done up to Vietnam.

Suburbanite · Oct 30, 2004, 03:31 am

I'm down.

Scribbler1 · Oct 30, 2004, 11:34 am

Quote:

Originally posted by ACause,
I think legalbyte was speaking of the old-fashioned method of rehabilitating youthful offenders thru military service...such as was done up to Vietnam.

That might help, but would it be enough. You get discipline in prison too and plenty of these guys walk out thouroughly UN-rehabilitated.

And I'm not sure I want a load of criminals in our military, especially when we count on them for so much in a time of war. It's not just the ACT that defines a criminal, it's the way they think as well. If I had to choose between a patriotic volunteer and some punk who was either forced to serve or took it as a better option than jail, I will always pick the former.

Oct 30, 2004, 11:50 am

You'd be surprised how many "punks" I knew in recruit training that by the time I graduated from Parris Island were made decent men. The Discipline you experience in prison is not the same discipline exhibited in the military..

If I could get a kid early on in his manhood....then there is every possibility the military can rehabilitate you..it gives a young man a purpose..a sense of focus, pride, comradery, teamwork..... I personally have always thought that every youth should have to do a couple years in the military, especially those who want to go onto college..

Suburbanite · Oct 30, 2004, 05:33 pm

crazy punks!

Scribbler1 · Oct 30, 2004, 07:23 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ACause,
You'd be surprised how many "punks" I knew in recruit training that by the time I graduated from Parris Island were made decent men. The Discipline you experience in prison is not the same discipline exhibited in the military..

What was the source of these people? Did they come from prison, were they given the choice of military or jail, or were they just antisocial but law abiding?

I'm sure you're right in regards to the people you KNEW, but that's not the whole military. I wonder what statistics show regarding the reliability of volunteers who serve out of a sense of duty to the country versus criminals.

Oct 30, 2004, 08:23 pm

Well...the military was still doing the "Military or Jail" bit when I went in in 66...but they had pretty much ended that routine by the 70's...and some of the guys in my recruit platoon were just that type...gangers, petty criminals, juvenile deliquents..you name it...we had it.

Suburbanite · Oct 30, 2004, 09:51 pm

The Military: turning petty criminals into mass murderers until the 70's

Technosoul · Oct 30, 2004, 09:57 pm

The glory of a warror is only a worthy as the war he is assigned to fight. Technosoul.

Suburbanite · Oct 30, 2004, 10:03 pm

personal value is the only value of importance, so you're incorrect. If I think it was bad ass for me to kill someone who sucked and I did it, good for me.

Oct 30, 2004, 10:10 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Suburbanite,
The Military: turning petty criminals into mass murderers until the 70's

Oh that is such a gross overstatement over what the military does...They turned juvenile deliquents into upstanding men with character. What..some recruiter give you a run around or what? Seems you got a bent on the military bigtime.

Suburbanite · Oct 30, 2004, 10:37 pm

No, I tried to join the Marines and plan to try again after college. I love the military, but I know what it is, it is a group of people who are trained specifically to kill.

Oct 30, 2004, 10:48 pm

No...we are trained to defend this nation from all enemies, both foreign and domestic..at present..our enemies. And there are numerous Military Occupational Specialties that are not combat related.

With your attitude..I got news for you..as a former Marine Drill Instructor...if your online attitude is anything like your real attitude...you won't pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps....

Technosoul · Oct 30, 2004, 11:45 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Suburbanite,
personal value is the only value of importance, so you're incorrect. If I think it was bad ass for me to kill someone who sucked and I did it, good for me.

Enjoy your self-appointed glory. Add a buck and buy a cup of coffee with it's worth. LOL.

Technosoul · Oct 30, 2004, 11:53 pm

Yeah, but if we sign up for non-combat duty then we could not need to go to boot camp and listen to some drill instructer insult us. Or learn how to shoot weapons - right?

Oct 31, 2004, 07:01 am

Quote:

Originally posted by Technosoul,
Yeah, but if we sign up for non-combat duty then we could not need to go to boot camp and listen to some drill instructer insult us. Or learn how to shoot weapons - right?

Of course you'd need to go to bootcamp...you still need to become immersed into military life..we don't just teach combat skills?...

And shooting weapons is important...non-combat roles are taking a ton of casualties in Iraq...before we could be assured that "in the rear with the gear" types were safe...no more..Vietnam showed us the fallacy of that mentality...during Tet I recall with logistics units all over were swamped with VC.....motor pool drivers....admin clerks...supply warehouse types...suddenly they had to defend themselves...same thing occured during WW2 during the Battle of the Bulge..

And besides...who wouldn't want to learn how to shoot a weapon..it's FUN!

As for DI's insulting you..we DI's only have an individual for 71 training days..71 days with which to instill our years (most DI's have been in for at least 10 yrs) of experience and training in order to make a basic Marine....to do that we must break the civilian and build you up to that basic level.....for one day this training make save your life...The biggest thrill I got was when some mother would come up to me and say..."OH my...what did you do with my son...he pulled the chair out for me at dinner, he NEVER does that"...or from a father "He called me Sir...actually gave me the respect he never did before"....or "You know...he stands up straighter now...more pride"....or just plain ole fashioned comments from wives or girlfriends "Damn..he's sexy in those Dress Blues"...lol

Suburbanite · Oct 31, 2004, 01:33 pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ACause,
No...we are trained to defend this nation from all enemies, both foreign and domestic..at present..our enemies. And there are numerous Military Occupational Specialties that are not combat related.

With your attitude..I got news for you..as a former Marine Drill Instructor...if your online attitude is anything like your real attitude...you won't pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps....

Pack the gear? I think I'd do amazingly well. Every job is the military relates to killing, eiter helping someone else kill someone or you killing someone or getting/telling someone else to kill someone. The entire purpose of the military is to kill for us and it has been since the dawn of government.

Oct 31, 2004, 01:42 pm

Really..how does an aviation administration clerk help someone kill someone?...a water treatment specialist??...an Army Medic, a Naval Corspman?

Oct 29, 2004, 10:32 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	Hi, Legalbyte, and welcome to Volconvo. I must admit I am having a tough time understanding your post. Do you think you might boil it down in a few sentences? Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

Oct 29, 2004, 09:46 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Legalbyte Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	Hello I am legalbyte, I was invited to this forum by sean. Please ask him to e mail me on our previous topic and I apologise for being so late in getting here.Remember those of you that can of fight a war our go to jail? well I'm sure this would be an invaluable assest to our armed forces but it is up to the judgeing authority to enforce this policy. I prefer it opposed to a draft that will draw both men and women. I am not implying that those that enter the service under these conditions are chronic never-do-wells. but the rate of rehabilation speaks for itself and the valjues that ate instilled in these candidates may encourage them to become carrer soldiers, the risks are ther true, but keep in mind enlistment does not mean theater of combat service. and an honorable disachage still carries weight in this country as opposed to a parole officers teher. In korea college students all young men have to do three years oif mandatoryy service. It does not seem tohurt them. This is an effort to retrain and rediret misued assests no life in America is a waste sometimes chace comes from strange venues... The determination of our 18 year olds is the point , Truly if this is not thought out across the board in all fifty states, then justice can be blind and her scales unbalanced.

Oct 29, 2004, 10:36 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
ACause Guest Posts: n/a	I think legalbyte was speaking of the old-fashioned method of rehabilitating youthful offenders thru military service...such as was done up to Vietnam.

Oct 30, 2004, 03:31 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	I'm down.

Oct 30, 2004, 11:50 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
ACause Guest Posts: n/a	You'd be surprised how many "punks" I knew in recruit training that by the time I graduated from Parris Island were made decent men. The Discipline you experience in prison is not the same discipline exhibited in the military.. If I could get a kid early on in his manhood....then there is every possibility the military can rehabilitate you..it gives a young man a purpose..a sense of focus, pride, comradery, teamwork..... I personally have always thought that every youth should have to do a couple years in the military, especially those who want to go onto college..

Oct 30, 2004, 05:33 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	crazy punks!

Oct 30, 2004, 08:23 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
ACause Guest Posts: n/a	Well...the military was still doing the "Military or Jail" bit when I went in in 66...but they had pretty much ended that routine by the 70's...and some of the guys in my recruit platoon were just that type...gangers, petty criminals, juvenile deliquents..you name it...we had it.

Oct 30, 2004, 09:51 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	The Military: turning petty criminals into mass murderers until the 70's

Oct 30, 2004, 09:57 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	The glory of a warror is only a worthy as the war he is assigned to fight. Technosoul.

Oct 30, 2004, 10:03 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	personal value is the only value of importance, so you're incorrect. If I think it was bad ass for me to kill someone who sucked and I did it, good for me.

Oct 30, 2004, 10:37 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	No, I tried to join the Marines and plan to try again after college. I love the military, but I know what it is, it is a group of people who are trained specifically to kill.

Oct 30, 2004, 10:48 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
ACause Guest Posts: n/a	No...we are trained to defend this nation from all enemies, both foreign and domestic..at present..our enemies. And there are numerous Military Occupational Specialties that are not combat related. With your attitude..I got news for you..as a former Marine Drill Instructor...if your online attitude is anything like your real attitude...you won't pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps....

Oct 30, 2004, 11:53 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Yeah, but if we sign up for non-combat duty then we could not need to go to boot camp and listen to some drill instructer insult us. Or learn how to shoot weapons - right?

Oct 31, 2004, 01:42 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
ACause Guest Posts: n/a	Really..how does an aviation administration clerk help someone kill someone?...a water treatment specialist??...an Army Medic, a Naval Corspman?