God must be crazy! if this be true!!--1

[aryaveer]

a rational look on what is being said by quran and bible.


Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:
- God is just, kind, perfect
- This life is our first and last life
- God is testing us here
- Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.
The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
- the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
- the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.
But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .
Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.

1.
Many children die in the wombs. Now as per Islam or Christianity would they go to Heaven or Hell? Most scholars of Islam and Christianity say they go to Heaven because they never did anything wrong in their lives.
Now my question is “Did they even have an option to do anything wrong?”
Is God not being partial by clearing one candidate even without starting his examination, and another one has to keep giving test after test continuously for 100 years!

2.
Many children die young before they reach maturity. Even the wrong acts they do are not out of willful desire to do something wrong but out of innocence. Would they reach Heaven or Hell?
If they reach Heaven, then why does God not kill everyone in their childhood and ensure a seat in Heaven for them? Is God not being unjust and imperfect?
If they reach Hell, what was their fault?
Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.
Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!
So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust.

3.
A person is born insane. His mental faculties have not developed beyond say, age of five. But he lives a long life. Will he go to Hell or Heaven?
Again the same questions as above rise. And result in either God being unjust or concept of one life as test to enter Heaven/Hell being wrong.

4.
One person is born in family of Hindu, another in home of an atheist, one as a Muslim and another as a Christian. Based on what they imbibe from their respective societies, they become a devout Hindu, Atheist, Muslim and Christian respectively.
Now as per Islam, only those who believe in Quran and Muhammad can go to Heaven. As per Christians, only those who surrender to Jesus can go to Heaven.
So who will go where?
Definitely the Hindu and Atheist are bound to go to Hell. Now my question is “Was God not unjust by not giving everyone birth in family of Muslim or Christian, whosoever is correct?”
What is my fault if I was born and brought up in a Hindu family and never got any reason to be convinced by Quran or Bible? Why has God planned my stay in Hell from advance?

5.
A person who is devout follower of Islam believes that children go to Heaven because that is what scholars teach him. So as a noble example of self-sacrifice, he starts killing children. His logic is that, even if I have to burn in Hell forever, I should do my best to ensure that these innocent children get reservation for Paradise!
Thus he is doing a selfless social service. Will he go to Heaven or Hell?
If he goes to Heaven, then Allah or God is setting a wrong example for people to follow.
If he goes to Hell, then selflessness is bad.
Further, since no one will actually know who will go where until doomsday comes, it means God has already spread enough confusion to motivate many innocent selfless social workers to follow the path of infanticide and killing!


do wait for another part of this topic for other questions(15 total) i didn't wish to make this topic a lengthy one.

[violentdynamite]

no God in which is said by Islam does not allow disasters to happen for example a baby dying and its not god being mean and going out to avenge someone its just one of the downsides of life.there are bad things that happen in life.but maybe thats to test our capability and our beliefs.
some things happen beyond gods capability and may be down to nature.

[violentdynamite]

i take it you must be an atheist?

[Philip Lu]

no God in which is said by Islam does not allow disasters to happen for example a baby dying and its not god being mean and going out to avenge someone its just one of the downsides of life.there are bad things that happen in life.but maybe thats to test our capability and our beliefs.
some things happen beyond gods capability and may be down to nature.

You're not getting the point. Why does he let some people pass without a test, or make some people not be able to test? Assume that Christianity is right. Some people have never heard of Christianity and has no way of knowing the true religion, therefore they must go to hell. Why would a God give such unfair tests?

[Fatihah]

a rational look on what is being said by quran and bible.


Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:
- God is just, kind, perfect
- This life is our first and last life
- God is testing us here
- Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.
The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
- the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
- the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.
But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .
Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.

1.
Many children die in the wombs. Now as per Islam or Christianity would they go to Heaven or Hell? Most scholars of Islam and Christianity say they go to Heaven because they never did anything wrong in their lives.
Now my question is “Did they even have an option to do anything wrong?”
Is God not being partial by clearing one candidate even without starting his examination, and another one has to keep giving test after test continuously for 100 years!

2.
Many children die young before they reach maturity. Even the wrong acts they do are not out of willful desire to do something wrong but out of innocence. Would they reach Heaven or Hell?
If they reach Heaven, then why does God not kill everyone in their childhood and ensure a seat in Heaven for them? Is God not being unjust and imperfect?
If they reach Hell, what was their fault?
Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.
Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!
So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust.

3.
A person is born insane. His mental faculties have not developed beyond say, age of five. But he lives a long life. Will he go to Hell or Heaven?
Again the same questions as above rise. And result in either God being unjust or concept of one life as test to enter Heaven/Hell being wrong.

4.
One person is born in family of Hindu, another in home of an atheist, one as a Muslim and another as a Christian. Based on what they imbibe from their respective societies, they become a devout Hindu, Atheist, Muslim and Christian respectively.
Now as per Islam, only those who believe in Quran and Muhammad can go to Heaven. As per Christians, only those who surrender to Jesus can go to Heaven.
So who will go where?
Definitely the Hindu and Atheist are bound to go to Hell. Now my question is “Was God not unjust by not giving everyone birth in family of Muslim or Christian, whosoever is correct?”
What is my fault if I was born and brought up in a Hindu family and never got any reason to be convinced by Quran or Bible? Why has God planned my stay in Hell from advance?

5.
A person who is devout follower of Islam believes that children go to Heaven because that is what scholars teach him. So as a noble example of self-sacrifice, he starts killing children. His logic is that, even if I have to burn in Hell forever, I should do my best to ensure that these innocent children get reservation for Paradise!
Thus he is doing a selfless social service. Will he go to Heaven or Hell?
If he goes to Heaven, then Allah or God is setting a wrong example for people to follow.
If he goes to Hell, then selflessness is bad.
Further, since no one will actually know who will go where until doomsday comes, it means God has already spread enough confusion to motivate many innocent selfless social workers to follow the path of infanticide and killing!


do wait for another part of this topic for other questions(15 total) i didn't wish to make this topic a lengthy one.

Response: In islam, Allah provides whatever test he pleases for any individual. Each person has the ability to repent and do goods deeds to be forgiven for past sin. So it is not befitting for humankind to complain that their obstacles in life were different than others. For even as we speak, one can repent and do good deeds for their sins to be forgiven, thus having the opportunity to receive the same rewards in the Hereafter as someone else who went through different obstacles or a child who's been through none. As for Allah being partial, yes Allah is partial. But never are you forced to sin, so the blame of your actions still lay on you, not Allah. So Allah is not being unjust even when bring partial. Also being partial to one may be a benefit to others in Allah's purpose. For example, Allah was definitely partial to Prophet Muhammad, as he favoured him and other prophets. But doing so served the purpose of bringing about guidance to humankind for all people to follow as a way to know the best path of righteousness. So being partial was a benefit to humankind not an act of injustice. So yes, Allah is partial, but with a purpose which is just and beneficial to perhaps that person/s and someone else or others.

[Trojan_Ripper]

Response: In islam, Allah provides whatever test he pleases for any individual. So it is not befitting for humankind to complain that their obstacles in life were different than others. For example, Allah was definitely partial to Prophet Muhammad, as he favoured him and other prophets. But doing so served the purpose of bringing about guidance to humankind for all people to follow as a way to know the best path of righteousness.

Kinda like dead batteries…?

YouTube - Mad Tv - Batteries not included

[Fatihah]

Kinda like dead batteries…?

YouTube - Mad Tv - Batteries not included

Response: Not following.

[aryaveer]

its just one of the downsides of life.there are bad things that happen in life.but maybe thats to test our capability and our beliefs.
some things happen beyond gods capability and may be down to nature.

some things happen beyond capability of god!!
so which sort of god is this if not all capable!!

i was asking means what place would that baby go who died? hell or heaven!!

and no i am not an atheist. i am a vedic dharma follower ,the oldest religion of world .... stay here and read my posts to know more about vedic dharma ..whose distorted form is hinduism.

otherwise to get a quick view on what is vedic dharma, go to Mission Agniveer - Vision Vedas

[aryaveer]

So it is not befitting for humankind to complain that their obstacles in life were different than others. For even as we speak, one can repent and do good deeds for their sins to be forgiven, thus having the opportunity to receive the same rewards in the Hereafter as someone else who went through different obstacles or a child who's been through none. As for Allah being partial, yes Allah is partial.

so you believe allah is partial. Now you say but he is not unjust. if someone is partial it means it is unjust dear.

"Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.
Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!
So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust."

But never are you forced to sin, so the blame of your actions still lay on you, not Allah. So Allah is not being unjust even when bring partial.

you are never forced to sin? lets us suppose a person given birth in family of idol worshippers and whole his life he would obviously worship idols, which is a sin in quran! so how come you say we are not forced to sin.
was it his fault he got birth there?

[aryaveer]

a rational look on quran and bible!! continued...
Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:
- God is just, kind, perfect
- This life is our first and last life
- God is testing us here
- Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.
The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
- the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
- the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.
But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .
Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.


6.
An unbiased testing environment will demand that

- first the subject be taught to everyone with same facilities,
- then they should be evaluated under same testing environment.

Accordingly, God should have first imbibed Quran or Bible, whichever is true, in hearts of all people, then given them birth in same types of family, allowed them to grow up in same place and in same conditions, and only then should have conducted the test.
But in this world, we find the testing environment to be as diverse as one can possibly imagine. And yet God is claimed to be perfect, just and kind!
Most religious scholars answer this paradox by saying that God or Allah knows how to decide the fate by whatever acts people have done in their respective lives based on whatever environment they had to live in. This seems to be like God having something like the Duckworth-Lewis formula which is used to decide winner of an interrupted cricket match.
Now this raises few doubts:
One,
if indeed God is perfect and He has such a great scoring formula, why did he create the entire drama and wasted so many years? He should have used the formula in the very beginning and directly sent everyone to either Heaven or Hell!
Two,
If the formula works on a stillborn child or a fetus, why did he unnecessarily bias against certain folks and had them face troubles of long lives? After all He had created everyone equal to start with!
Three,
The test seems to have discrete results. As per Quran, all Heaven-goers would get 72 virgins each. There seems to be no concept of variation of results as per deeds. Some books do talk of several varieties of Heaven, but these merely increase a binary solution to a finite number solution (Instead of one Heaven and one Hell, there are now say 10 Heavens and 10 Hells). But still there is no continuous gradation. It is like a continuous function equation is giving a non-zero discrete answer, which is mathematically improbable.

7.
People seem to be retaining their youthful bodies in Heaven. Now will they be able to change their looks if they want to? What about children and fetus who go to Heaven? Will they go as adults? Will they receive a training in Hebrew or Arabic which is supposed to be the language of Heaven? If indeed so, why did God not make only one single language in earth also?

8.
What about animals – reptiles, insects, mammals and other creatures? Will they go to Heaven or Hell? The earlier belief was that animals do not have souls. But now that it has been amply proved that at least the higher animals feel pain and pleasure like humans, the opinion is divided.
Some claim that they will also go to Heaven. Others say that Allah knows the best!
In case they go to Heaven, why did God or Allah bias against others and not gave them birth as cockroaches and goats? That way they too would have got straight passport to Heaven!
In case they go to Hell, what was their fault?
Also, will they live like cockroaches and goats, or will they get human body? Will their intelligence be enhanced? Or they remain equally dumb as in earth?

9.
Heaven and Hell seem to be permanent. It will continue forever, as per these religions. Now if that be so, God’s injustice becomes even more prominent in light of above points.
Based on one single test, God put certain people directly in Heaven without testing them at all! Others he tested for so many years. Some he gave birth in homes of Apostates, some as children of Prophet himself.
Is this not gravest cheating?

God is the most unjust and biggest cheater of these stories of there being one single exam and Heaven/Hell forever be true.

A corollary:
What would happen if people start fighting or cheating or adultery in Heaven? Will they be shifted to Hell? Or will they be permitted to do whatever they want and yet remain in Heaven?
The Holy Books seem to be silent on this!

10.
Recently there was news that a 2 month old baby was raped.
Now who is being tested? The victim or the rapist?
If its test of victim, is it in a position to respond?
If its test of the rapist, why the hell did God make the poor little baby as a scapegoat?

God seems nothing more than a crazy, stupid, psychopathic dictator if these stories be true.

be looking forward for last part also of this article !! which will also point to the correct path and truth!!

[Fatihah]

a rational look on quran and bible!! continued...
Put simply, the basic premise of the Abrahamic beliefs (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are as follows:
- God is just, kind, perfect
- This life is our first and last life
- God is testing us here
- Based on the marks we obtain in this test, we will go to either Heaven or Hell.
The differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam lie only in
- the testing criteria and the description of Heaven and Hell
- the level of fanaticism required for passing this Test.
But the basic construct is same – One Life which is Test, God is best examiner, and Result is Pass (Heaven) or Fail (Hell) .
Let us evaluate this basic construct critically through a series of examples, and decide whether it is logically plausible.


6.
An unbiased testing environment will demand that

- first the subject be taught to everyone with same facilities,
- then they should be evaluated under same testing environment.

Accordingly, God should have first imbibed Quran or Bible, whichever is true, in hearts of all people, then given them birth in same types of family, allowed them to grow up in same place and in same conditions, and only then should have conducted the test.
But in this world, we find the testing environment to be as diverse as one can possibly imagine. And yet God is claimed to be perfect, just and kind!
Most religious scholars answer this paradox by saying that God or Allah knows how to decide the fate by whatever acts people have done in their respective lives based on whatever environment they had to live in. This seems to be like God having something like the Duckworth-Lewis formula which is used to decide winner of an interrupted cricket match.
Now this raises few doubts:
One,
if indeed God is perfect and He has such a great scoring formula, why did he create the entire drama and wasted so many years? He should have used the formula in the very beginning and directly sent everyone to either Heaven or Hell!
Two,
If the formula works on a stillborn child or a fetus, why did he unnecessarily bias against certain folks and had them face troubles of long lives? After all He had created everyone equal to start with!
Three,
The test seems to have discrete results. As per Quran, all Heaven-goers would get 72 virgins each. There seems to be no concept of variation of results as per deeds. Some books do talk of several varieties of Heaven, but these merely increase a binary solution to a finite number solution (Instead of one Heaven and one Hell, there are now say 10 Heavens and 10 Hells). But still there is no continuous gradation. It is like a continuous function equation is giving a non-zero discrete answer, which is mathematically improbable.

7.
People seem to be retaining their youthful bodies in Heaven. Now will they be able to change their looks if they want to? What about children and fetus who go to Heaven? Will they go as adults? Will they receive a training in Hebrew or Arabic which is supposed to be the language of Heaven? If indeed so, why did God not make only one single language in earth also?

8.
What about animals – reptiles, insects, mammals and other creatures? Will they go to Heaven or Hell? The earlier belief was that animals do not have souls. But now that it has been amply proved that at least the higher animals feel pain and pleasure like humans, the opinion is divided.
Some claim that they will also go to Heaven. Others say that Allah knows the best!
In case they go to Heaven, why did God or Allah bias against others and not gave them birth as cockroaches and goats? That way they too would have got straight passport to Heaven!
In case they go to Hell, what was their fault?
Also, will they live like cockroaches and goats, or will they get human body? Will their intelligence be enhanced? Or they remain equally dumb as in earth?

9.
Heaven and Hell seem to be permanent. It will continue forever, as per these religions. Now if that be so, God’s injustice becomes even more prominent in light of above points.
Based on one single test, God put certain people directly in Heaven without testing them at all! Others he tested for so many years. Some he gave birth in homes of Apostates, some as children of Prophet himself.
Is this not gravest cheating?

God is the most unjust and biggest cheater of these stories of there being one single exam and Heaven/Hell forever be true.

A corollary:
What would happen if people start fighting or cheating or adultery in Heaven? Will they be shifted to Hell? Or will they be permitted to do whatever they want and yet remain in Heaven?
The Holy Books seem to be silent on this!

10.
Recently there was news that a 2 month old baby was raped.
Now who is being tested? The victim or the rapist?
If its test of victim, is it in a position to respond?
If its test of the rapist, why the hell did God make the poor little baby as a scapegoat?

God seems nothing more than a crazy, stupid, psychopathic dictator if these stories be true.

be looking forward for last part also of this article !! which will also point to the correct path and truth!!

Response: It is not Allah's doing that people are born in different environments and different experiences, for Allah does not put you there. Due to circumstances created by society, one is born in their environment. If parents move to Africa and have a child, it is not the blame of Allah that the child is born in Africa because Allah did not force the parents to move. So your logic of an unjust God falls apart from the start. Secondly, Allah does not directly test a person as if they were a lab experiment like you suggest, but the test we get in life is a natural test, for the people and the environment in which we dwell in society is naturally filled with temptations and it is for us to avoid the temptation of doing wrong and live righteousness. And when Allah does tempt you to test you, it is always with something that is good, so there is no bias or injustice in the tests. And Allah always helps to guide those who are righteous and worship him so it doesn't matter what test you go through, for Allah has revealed the answer to past all test, which is to submit your will to Allah. Thus if you have the answer and fail anyway, then once again, the blame is on your disobedience, not an act of injustice from Allah. As for animals, animals are different from humans because they don't act on what's right and wrong but on instinct. So animals are not punished with hell.

In short and as demonstrated, Allah is, as the qur'an states, still the most compassionate and most benevolent.

[Fatihah]

so you believe allah is partial. Now you say but he is not unjust. if someone is partial it means it is unjust dear.

"Say twins were born. Both lived same innocent life for first 3 years. Then one died. He will go straight to Heaven. The other remained innocent for next few years, then got into bad company, became an Apostate/Kafir and died at age of 60. Now he should go to Hell, as per the Books.
Is this not God’s crime that he made him live for 60 years and not his brother? Had he killed both at same age of 3 years, both would have gone to Heaven!
So if there is one life and permanent Heaven/Hell, it proves God is unjust."



you are never forced to sin? lets us suppose a person given birth in family of idol worshippers and whole his life he would obviously worship idols, which is a sin in quran! so how come you say we are not forced to sin.
was it his fault he got birth there?

Response: For starters, your concept of how one goes to Heaven or Hell is severely flawed. For doing a few evil things in your life does not make you destined for Hell or vice versa when doing good to go to heaven. For in islam, no one who believes in Allah is permanently punished by Hell. However, a person who always sinned but still believed in Allah will go to Hell temporarily for their sins, then granted paradise. Also, there are different levels of rewards in paradise. Some levels are better than others, though all levels are still great. Again, the level you end with depends on your deeds within your whole life, not part of it. So in short, Allah is just and your example is flawed, as it is not the way of Allah.

As for partial being unjust, not a dictionary in the world says so. Thus calling it unjust is your warped interpolation,not an act of injustice by Allah. As explained, Allah is partial in ways that are just, for being partial in some cases is justice. An example would be to showing more favoritism to your new born than to a stranger. Naturally, this is not an act of injustice and to state that such partial judgment is unjust is a reflection of your ill mannered ideology, not islam.