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shunyadragon · Mar 27, 2004, 11:58 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dave654,)
Okay, I'll have to do a little more digging but I'll take your word for it since you seem to be more intimately involved in the topic than I.
Have you been in any Buhdist Temples in Asia? Have you been involved in ceremonies where they do much chanting? If so, is it as cool as I imagine it is? I bet the vibrations are very relaxing.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yes I have visited many temples in China. Chanting is more prominante in Tibetan Buddhism. I have never been a fan of chanting. I have always prefered meditative silence and the sounds of nature.

sarhoq · Apr 5, 2004, 10:30 am

I could read the 7 pages of typing written about Buddhism, but I refuse to. I'm sure there are some incredibly insightful thoughts and the like, but I, being a Taoist, find it incredibly irritating that you would even chose to state the Buddhist religion as one which is ridiculous because of a lack of comprehension on the subject.

Claiming a religion with such stature as Buddhism to be stupid is like stating that Christianity or Islam is farcical, only chosing Buddhism here is a good idea because I highly doubt on this forum there are more Buddhist/Taoist than myself and a select few.

Buddhism is about cleansing your mind and taking to your mind back to a state of somber peace, letting go of the chaos of living in this world and letting life flow---there's the concept that you CAN'T change that which is inevitable to happen no matter what, so you might as well deal with it instead of living a life of stress and chaos.

Buddhism is returning yourself to a state of natural peace... letting the wind and sky overtake you and move you miles.

IT'S A RELIGION AND LEAVE IT ALONE. It's something people need so that they have something to fall back on and something to believe in. It's like every other faith in the world, and it's something incredibly personal and private.

Where do you stand to tell me that my beliefs are stupid?

shunyadragon · Apr 5, 2004, 07:22 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (sarhoq,)
I could read the 7 pages of typing written about Buddhism, but I refuse to. I'm sure there are some incredibly insightful thoughts and the like, but I, being a Taoist, find it incredibly irritating that you would even chose to state the Buddhist religion as one which is ridiculous because of a lack of comprehension on the subject.

Claiming a religion with such stature as Buddhism to be stupid is like stating that Christianity or Islam is farcical, only chosing Buddhism here is a good idea because I highly doubt on this forum there are more Buddhist/Taoist than myself and a select few.

Buddhism is about cleansing your mind and taking to your mind back to a state of somber peace, letting go of the chaos of living in this world and letting life flow---there's the concept that you CAN'T change that which is inevitable to happen no matter what, so you might as well deal with it instead of living a life of stress and chaos.

Buddhism is returning yourself to a state of natural peace... letting the wind and sky overtake you and move you miles.

IT'S A RELIGION AND LEAVE IT ALONE. It's something people need so that they have something to fall back on and something to believe in. It's like every other faith in the world, and it's something incredibly personal and private.

Where do you stand to tell me that my beliefs are stupid?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Your new and you should take into consideration that debate on the net is debate on the net. Of course people from different religions will criticize other religions and some will trash others. Some do so just to get a response other genuinely believe the harsh things they say.

Scan the posts and pick a couple to provide some constructive answers. Give us some feed back on the similarities and differences between Taoism and Buddhism. I live in China and found that most believers are not clearly Taoist or Buddhist, but a blend.

justastranger · Apr 11, 2004, 10:13 pm

"...Because, Subhuti, if these fearless bodhisattvas created the perception of a dharma, they would be attached to a self, a being, a life, and a soul. Likewise, if they created the perception of no dharma, they would be attached to a self, a being, a life, and a soul." -the Bhagavan himself.

Loss of perception and the return to the Buddha body may appear like obscure and difficult tasks but the religion can hardly be referred to as "friggin stupid".

Sentinel · Apr 13, 2004, 09:45 am

One of the central concepts of Buddhism, especially the Zen variety, and Taoism, and arguably the most difficult concept to put into practice is the concept of "Being". In essence you should live fully in the moment, not attempting to live with too much emphasis on what might be in the future nor belaboring what has happened in the past. Being fully engaged in the Now, which of course changes minute by minute is quite difficult. It leads away from daydreaming, while allowing planning, and away from beating yourself up for past errors, which leads to self-pity.

The concept of God or gods is an attempt to understand and label something beyond our understanding. As the Tao Te Ching points out, the Tao which can be named is not the Tao. Which just means that the word itself is not the thing you are attempting to describe just a useful tool for communicating with others. Most pluralities of "gods" are attempts to label certain characteristics of the overlying unknown "force" which appears to rule life. As has been stated before, acknowledging the existence of these is not the same as worshiping them. I acknowledge the existence of the initiator of this thread but certainly don't worship him.

I do not agree that Buddhism is impractical. The concept of non-attachment does not mean one cannot live a productive life nor even strive to improve it, it just means that one should not live for the idea of "always getting more". Live in the present, enjoy what is here now, if you lose it, acknowledge the loss and the pain it causes and move on. This does not stop you from acquiring something else to replace it nor does it mean that the personal meaning of whatever was lost (be it another person or an inanimate object) stops having meaning in terms of your life, it means you do not become obsessed in the fact it is now gone.

Although the above is more Taoist than Buddhist, I think it fits generally well with both. And neither is "stupid".

shunyadragon · Apr 13, 2004, 10:01 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sentinel,)
One of the central concepts of Buddhism, especially the Zen variety, and Taoism, and arguably the most difficult concept to put into practice is the concept of "Being". In essence you should live fully in the moment, not attempting to live with too much emphasis on what might be in the future nor belaboring what has happened in the past. Being fully engaged in the Now, which of course changes minute by minute is quite difficult. It leads away from daydreaming, while allowing planning, and away from beating yourself up for past errors, which leads to self-pity.

The concept of God or gods is an attempt to understand and label something beyond our understanding. As the Tao Te Ching points out, the Tao which can be named is not the Tao. Which just means that the word itself is not the thing you are attempting to describe just a useful tool for communicating with others. Most pluralities of "gods" are attempts to label certain characteristics of the overlying unknown "force" which appears to rule life. As has been stated before, acknowledging the existence of these is not the same as worshiping them. I acknowledge the existence of the initiator of this thread but certainly don't worship him. <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

The view that a God or Gods in the original Buddhism was or is not an attempt to understand or label anything as a rationalization. It was considered simply as a part of the nature of the spititual realms and belief that is not all that well understood. Buddhism acknowledged the existence of spiritual realms, beings, lesser divinities and the undifined source without an attempt to understand anything. The seeing of existence in the now has always been an essential part of ending suffering and detaching ones self from the burden of attempts to understand that which we cannot know.

rhod01 · Apr 13, 2004, 10:38 am

To the person who atarted the topic: Buddhism isn't a religion because it is atheiestic. We don't beleive in gods.

shunyadragon · Apr 16, 2004, 10:15 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Merlov,)
To the person who atarted the topic: Buddhism isn't a religion because it is atheiestic. We don't beleive in gods.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Interesting debate issue discused earlier in this and other threads.

Do you have to believe in a God to be called a religion?

Many organizations and beliefs are regularly referred to as religions that do not have a belief in God as a central concept like the Unitarians.

Does Budhism believe in God or Gods?

Do you speak for all Buddhists? Buddhists may not have the same concept of God as the Judeo/Christian viewpoint, but Buddhism has numerous and varied beliefs in God or Gods throughout its history.

floridian · Apr 17, 2004, 10:16 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
To the person who atarted the topic: Buddhism isn't a religion because it is atheiestic. We don't beleive in gods.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

You are right, but the truth is more complicated. The core of Buddhism is not a religion. It is an existentialist philosophy. It does not deal with questions like "is there a god" or "what happens after one dies". It deals with getting into "the zone" .... abandoning mental blinders that prevent us from being in the moment. Zen and Chan Buddhism in Japan and China are the most minimalistic, or core oriented.

But Buddhism is often syncretic - mixed with other creeds. Tibetan Buddhism includes beliefs in reincarnation, spirits, and demons. Nepalese Buddhism still contains elements of Hindu thought. Taoism and Animism are present in some Chinese Buddhism. Pure Land Buddhists 'worship' Amitaba, believing that merely having faith in him and calling on his name will lead to salvation (sounds like some Christians).

Impenitent · Apr 17, 2004, 10:28 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (floridian,)
The core of Buddhism is not a religion.

:rolleyes: yes, the eightfold path is religion... following any set of criteria for a goal is religious

It is an existentialist philosophy. It does not deal with questions like "is there a god" or "what happens after one dies".

:rolleyes: yes it does, but the gods of buddhism serve a different function than the gods of other religions... the goal of buddhism is to end the cycle of reincarnation and become nothing

It deals with getting into "the zone" .... abandoning mental blinders that prevent us from being in the moment. Zen and Chan Buddhism in Japan and China are the most minimalistic, or core oriented.

But Buddhism is often syncretic - mixed with other creeds. Tibetan Buddhism includes beliefs in reincarnation, spirits, and demons. Nepalese Buddhism still contains elements of Hindu thought. Taoism and Animism are present in some Chinese Buddhism. Pure Land Buddhists 'worship' Amitaba, believing that merely having faith in him and calling on his name will lead to salvation (sounds like some Christians).<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

floridian · Apr 17, 2004, 11:32 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
yes, the eightfold path is religion... following any set of criteria for a goal is religious<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

The eight-fold path is an ethical or moral code (right speech, right thinking, etc). The boyscout motto (a scout is courteous, clean, thrifty, etc) is not religious (except perhaps for the 'reverent' part, and that is left to the interpretation of the individual).

Your definition of religion as "following any set of criteria for a goal" is way too loose. That would make gardening and olympic figure skating (and everything else) religions.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
yes it does, but the gods of buddhism serve a different function than the gods of other religions... the goal of buddhism is to end the cycle of reincarnation and become nothing<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation. Nirvana (the place where no wind blows) can be envisioned as release from the wheel of birth/death/reincarnation for Buddhists that follow the Hindu tradition, while others conceptualize nirvana as a personal transcendence of desire and illusion, a release from the ego.

Impenitent · Apr 17, 2004, 12:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (floridian,)

The eight-fold path is an ethical or moral code (right speech, right thinking, etc). The boyscout motto (a scout is courteous, clean, thrifty, etc) is not religious (except perhaps for the 'reverent' part, and that is left to the interpretation of the individual).

Your definition of religion as "following any set of criteria for a goal" is way too loose. That would make gardening and olympic figure skating (and everything else) religions.

:rolleyes: re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

1 Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2 A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3 A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4 A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

it isn't MY definition... it is THE definition of religion... knowing the terms is half the battle

Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation.

:rolleyes: the ones who follow the teachings of the Buddah do...

Nirvana (the place where no wind blows) can be envisioned as release from the wheel of birth/death/reincarnation for Buddhists that follow the Hindu tradition, while others conceptualize nirvana as a personal transcendence of desire and illusion, a release from the ego.

Buddhists who are Buddhists have this definition for nirvana :

nirvana

\Nir*va"na\, n. [Skr. nirv[=a][.n]a.] In the Buddhist system of religion, the final emancipation of the soul from transmigration, and consequently a beatific enfrachisement from the evils of wordly existence, as by annihilation or absorption into the divine.

it is correct that the ones who are Hindus believe differently, but Hindus are not Buddhists...
<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

floridian · Apr 17, 2004, 12:17 pm

Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation??

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Dharma Data: Reincarnation

The belief that at death the soul leaves the body and reanimates a new one. Reincarnation is a fundamental belief in Hinduism and several other religions but it is rejected by Buddhism which denies the existence of a soul. http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharma...adata/fdd46.htm <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
it is correct that the ones who are Hindus believe differently, but Hindus are not Buddhists...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

It's not an either-or situation. The two belief systems do overlap to an extent.

Impenitent · Apr 17, 2004, 02:08 pm

Siddartha taught a very specific path...

"Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation??"

why would the eightfold path lead to enlightenment which is the end of rebirth, the end of reincarnation, if they didn't believe in reincarnation?

It is an either/or situation... Buddhists believe as Buddhists believe, Hindus believe as Hindus believe... they may overlap a bit as all religions do, but they are not the same thing...

shunyadragon · Apr 17, 2004, 06:07 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
Siddartha taught a very specific path...

"Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation??"

why would the eightfold path lead to enlightenment which is the end of rebirth, the end of reincarnation, if they didn't believe in reincarnation?

It is an either/or situation... Buddhists believe as Buddhists believe, Hindus believe as Hindus believe... they may overlap a bit as all religions do, but they are not the same thing...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Siddartha did not teach a very specific path. He did say not to follow him but to seek the middle way. The end of suffereing and the eight-fold path are not as specific in concept as the ten commandments. Reincarnation is not clear in Buddhist teachings as in Hindu traditions. I do not think there is such a thing as authentic Buddhism from our point of view any more than an authentic Christianity. Too much time, culture and language problems intervene.

Impenitent · Apr 18, 2004, 10:22 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (shunyadragon,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
Siddartha taught a very specific path...

"Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation??"

why would the eightfold path lead to enlightenment which is the end of rebirth, the end of reincarnation, if they didn't believe in reincarnation?

It is an either/or situation... Buddhists believe as Buddhists believe, Hindus believe as Hindus believe... they may overlap a bit as all religions do, but they are not the same thing...<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Siddartha did not teach a very specific path. He did say not to follow him but to seek the middle way. The end of suffereing and the eight-fold path are not as specific in concept as the ten commandments. Reincarnation is not clear in Buddhist teachings as in Hindu traditions. I do not think there is such a thing as authentic Buddhism from our point of view any more than an authentic Christianity. Too much time, culture and language problems intervene.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

the middle way IS his path... yes the eight fold path is very specific... unless you want to say that the first step on the eightfold path is to kill everyone... do you see my point? the eight fold path is very specific... authentic in the sense that if one is following the religion of Thor one is not christian, authentic or otherwise... if one is not following the teachings of the buddah, one is not buddhist...

Mozart1220 · Apr 18, 2004, 10:37 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (nature of reality,)
G. Adams: What they advocate is not "don't get bummed if you fail", but rather "don't want (dont' have the DESIRE to TRY)".

There is a major difference; One says you can learn and improve from failure and the other...

the other says its not worth the gamble.

"Mother Theresa worshipped Jesus."

No she was a maggot. She went to India to eat the sores of people. She was drawn to rot and suffering much like that insect. Jesus was the original maggot, who advocated the supremancy of mediocrity and the beauty of death. Sickos both.

"Read the new testiment."

I have. Jesus is an amazing character... the original socialist/communist, he gave us the first rational glimpse of the result of that sick set of beliefs; the Dark Ages.

"Are you an athiest or do you just not like Catholics?"

I don't see the relevence. We are talking about Buddhism (christianity too now), not me.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

You are truly a troubled individual. What are you so angry about? did A Buddist try to rape you or something? I'm not a religious person but even I can see the good Jesus and Mother Theresa did. Why don't you try helping other people for a change instead of bitching and whining about something you obviously don't care to understand?

Apr 22, 2004, 11:03 am

true. give buddhism some slack. it's more important to be calm and happy and unencumbered than highly concerned about everything and unable to center. if you can do the world without becoming upset or cluttered then go for it.

you could visit www.sukhi.com to find out more about buddhism. i particularly like the smiling yoga.

Mar 27, 2004, 11:58 pm	#101 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (dave654,) Okay, I'll have to do a little more digging but I'll take your word for it since you seem to be more intimately involved in the topic than I. Have you been in any Buhdist Temples in Asia? Have you been involved in ceremonies where they do much chanting? If so, is it as cool as I imagine it is? I bet the vibrations are very relaxing.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yes I have visited many temples in China. Chanting is more prominante in Tibetan Buddhism. I have never been a fan of chanting. I have always prefered meditative silence and the sounds of nature. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Apr 5, 2004, 10:30 am	#102 (permalink) (top)
sarhoq Sedimentary Rock Posts: 4	I could read the 7 pages of typing written about Buddhism, but I refuse to. I'm sure there are some incredibly insightful thoughts and the like, but I, being a Taoist, find it incredibly irritating that you would even chose to state the Buddhist religion as one which is ridiculous because of a lack of comprehension on the subject. Claiming a religion with such stature as Buddhism to be stupid is like stating that Christianity or Islam is farcical, only chosing Buddhism here is a good idea because I highly doubt on this forum there are more Buddhist/Taoist than myself and a select few. Buddhism is about cleansing your mind and taking to your mind back to a state of somber peace, letting go of the chaos of living in this world and letting life flow---there's the concept that you CAN'T change that which is inevitable to happen no matter what, so you might as well deal with it instead of living a life of stress and chaos. Buddhism is returning yourself to a state of natural peace... letting the wind and sky overtake you and move you miles. IT'S A RELIGION AND LEAVE IT ALONE. It's something people need so that they have something to fall back on and something to believe in. It's like every other faith in the world, and it's something incredibly personal and private. Where do you stand to tell me that my beliefs are stupid? <span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Courier'>"May the wind always be at your back and the sun at your face, and may the wings of destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars."</span></span>

Apr 5, 2004, 07:22 pm	#103 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (sarhoq,) I could read the 7 pages of typing written about Buddhism, but I refuse to. I'm sure there are some incredibly insightful thoughts and the like, but I, being a Taoist, find it incredibly irritating that you would even chose to state the Buddhist religion as one which is ridiculous because of a lack of comprehension on the subject. Claiming a religion with such stature as Buddhism to be stupid is like stating that Christianity or Islam is farcical, only chosing Buddhism here is a good idea because I highly doubt on this forum there are more Buddhist/Taoist than myself and a select few. Buddhism is about cleansing your mind and taking to your mind back to a state of somber peace, letting go of the chaos of living in this world and letting life flow---there's the concept that you CAN'T change that which is inevitable to happen no matter what, so you might as well deal with it instead of living a life of stress and chaos. Buddhism is returning yourself to a state of natural peace... letting the wind and sky overtake you and move you miles. IT'S A RELIGION AND LEAVE IT ALONE. It's something people need so that they have something to fall back on and something to believe in. It's like every other faith in the world, and it's something incredibly personal and private. Where do you stand to tell me that my beliefs are stupid?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Your new and you should take into consideration that debate on the net is debate on the net. Of course people from different religions will criticize other religions and some will trash others. Some do so just to get a response other genuinely believe the harsh things they say. Scan the posts and pick a couple to provide some constructive answers. Give us some feed back on the similarities and differences between Taoism and Buddhism. I live in China and found that most believers are not clearly Taoist or Buddhist, but a blend. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Apr 13, 2004, 10:01 am	#106 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sentinel,) One of the central concepts of Buddhism, especially the Zen variety, and Taoism, and arguably the most difficult concept to put into practice is the concept of "Being". In essence you should live fully in the moment, not attempting to live with too much emphasis on what might be in the future nor belaboring what has happened in the past. Being fully engaged in the Now, which of course changes minute by minute is quite difficult. It leads away from daydreaming, while allowing planning, and away from beating yourself up for past errors, which leads to self-pity. The concept of God or gods is an attempt to understand and label something beyond our understanding. As the Tao Te Ching points out, the Tao which can be named is not the Tao. Which just means that the word itself is not the thing you are attempting to describe just a useful tool for communicating with others. Most pluralities of "gods" are attempts to label certain characteristics of the overlying unknown "force" which appears to rule life. As has been stated before, acknowledging the existence of these is not the same as worshiping them. I acknowledge the existence of the initiator of this thread but certainly don't worship him. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> The view that a God or Gods in the original Buddhism was or is not an attempt to understand or label anything as a rationalization. It was considered simply as a part of the nature of the spititual realms and belief that is not all that well understood. Buddhism acknowledged the existence of spiritual realms, beings, lesser divinities and the undifined source without an attempt to understand anything. The seeing of existence in the now has always been an essential part of ending suffering and detaching ones self from the burden of attempts to understand that which we cannot know. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Apr 13, 2004, 10:38 am	#107 (permalink) (top)
rhod01 Socialist Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 226	To the person who atarted the topic: Buddhism isn't a religion because it is atheiestic. We don't beleive in gods. http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1153/gates8lq.jpg Political Compass Position: Economic Left/Right:-9.50 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian:-7.13

Apr 11, 2004, 10:13 pm	#104 (permalink) (top)
justastranger Sedimentary Rock Posts: 13	"...Because, Subhuti, if these fearless bodhisattvas created the perception of a dharma, they would be attached to a self, a being, a life, and a soul. Likewise, if they created the perception of no dharma, they would be attached to a self, a being, a life, and a soul." -the Bhagavan himself. Loss of perception and the return to the Buddha body may appear like obscure and difficult tasks but the religion can hardly be referred to as "friggin stupid".

Apr 13, 2004, 09:45 am	#105 (permalink) (top)
Sentinel Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	One of the central concepts of Buddhism, especially the Zen variety, and Taoism, and arguably the most difficult concept to put into practice is the concept of "Being". In essence you should live fully in the moment, not attempting to live with too much emphasis on what might be in the future nor belaboring what has happened in the past. Being fully engaged in the Now, which of course changes minute by minute is quite difficult. It leads away from daydreaming, while allowing planning, and away from beating yourself up for past errors, which leads to self-pity. The concept of God or gods is an attempt to understand and label something beyond our understanding. As the Tao Te Ching points out, the Tao which can be named is not the Tao. Which just means that the word itself is not the thing you are attempting to describe just a useful tool for communicating with others. Most pluralities of "gods" are attempts to label certain characteristics of the overlying unknown "force" which appears to rule life. As has been stated before, acknowledging the existence of these is not the same as worshiping them. I acknowledge the existence of the initiator of this thread but certainly don't worship him. I do not agree that Buddhism is impractical. The concept of non-attachment does not mean one cannot live a productive life nor even strive to improve it, it just means that one should not live for the idea of "always getting more". Live in the present, enjoy what is here now, if you lose it, acknowledge the loss and the pain it causes and move on. This does not stop you from acquiring something else to replace it nor does it mean that the personal meaning of whatever was lost (be it another person or an inanimate object) stops having meaning in terms of your life, it means you do not become obsessed in the fact it is now gone. Although the above is more Taoist than Buddhist, I think it fits generally well with both. And neither is "stupid".

Apr 16, 2004, 10:15 pm	#108 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Merlov,) To the person who atarted the topic: Buddhism isn't a religion because it is atheiestic. We don't beleive in gods.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Interesting debate issue discused earlier in this and other threads. Do you have to believe in a God to be called a religion? Many organizations and beliefs are regularly referred to as religions that do not have a belief in God as a central concept like the Unitarians. Does Budhism believe in God or Gods? Do you speak for all Buddhists? Buddhists may not have the same concept of God as the Judeo/Christian viewpoint, but Buddhism has numerous and varied beliefs in God or Gods throughout its history. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Apr 17, 2004, 10:16 am	#109 (permalink) (top)
floridian Molten Ash Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by To the person who atarted the topic: Buddhism isn't a religion because it is atheiestic. We don't beleive in gods. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> You are right, but the truth is more complicated. The core of Buddhism is not a religion. It is an existentialist philosophy. It does not deal with questions like "is there a god" or "what happens after one dies". It deals with getting into "the zone" .... abandoning mental blinders that prevent us from being in the moment. Zen and Chan Buddhism in Japan and China are the most minimalistic, or core oriented. But Buddhism is often syncretic - mixed with other creeds. Tibetan Buddhism includes beliefs in reincarnation, spirits, and demons. Nepalese Buddhism still contains elements of Hindu thought. Taoism and Animism are present in some Chinese Buddhism. Pure Land Buddhists 'worship' Amitaba, believing that merely having faith in him and calling on his name will lead to salvation (sounds like some Christians).

Apr 17, 2004, 10:28 am	#110 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (floridian,) The core of Buddhism is not a religion. :rolleyes: yes, the eightfold path is religion... following any set of criteria for a goal is religious It is an existentialist philosophy. It does not deal with questions like "is there a god" or "what happens after one dies". :rolleyes: yes it does, but the gods of buddhism serve a different function than the gods of other religions... the goal of buddhism is to end the cycle of reincarnation and become nothing It deals with getting into "the zone" .... abandoning mental blinders that prevent us from being in the moment. Zen and Chan Buddhism in Japan and China are the most minimalistic, or core oriented. But Buddhism is often syncretic - mixed with other creeds. Tibetan Buddhism includes beliefs in reincarnation, spirits, and demons. Nepalese Buddhism still contains elements of Hindu thought. Taoism and Animism are present in some Chinese Buddhism. Pure Land Buddhists 'worship' Amitaba, believing that merely having faith in him and calling on his name will lead to salvation (sounds like some Christians).<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Apr 17, 2004, 11:32 am	#111 (permalink) (top)
floridian Molten Ash Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by yes, the eightfold path is religion... following any set of criteria for a goal is religious<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> The eight-fold path is an ethical or moral code (right speech, right thinking, etc). The boyscout motto (a scout is courteous, clean, thrifty, etc) is not religious (except perhaps for the 'reverent' part, and that is left to the interpretation of the individual). Your definition of religion as "following any set of criteria for a goal" is way too loose. That would make gardening and olympic figure skating (and everything else) religions. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by yes it does, but the gods of buddhism serve a different function than the gods of other religions... the goal of buddhism is to end the cycle of reincarnation and become nothing<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation. Nirvana (the place where no wind blows) can be envisioned as release from the wheel of birth/death/reincarnation for Buddhists that follow the Hindu tradition, while others conceptualize nirvana as a personal transcendence of desire and illusion, a release from the ego.

Apr 17, 2004, 12:01 pm	#112 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (floridian,) The eight-fold path is an ethical or moral code (right speech, right thinking, etc). The boyscout motto (a scout is courteous, clean, thrifty, etc) is not religious (except perhaps for the 'reverent' part, and that is left to the interpretation of the individual). Your definition of religion as "following any set of criteria for a goal" is way too loose. That would make gardening and olympic figure skating (and everything else) religions. :rolleyes: re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn) n. 1 Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. 2 A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. The life or condition of a person in a religious order. 3 A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader. 4 A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. it isn't MY definition... it is THE definition of religion... knowing the terms is half the battle Not all Buddhists believe in reincarnation. :rolleyes: the ones who follow the teachings of the Buddah do... Nirvana (the place where no wind blows) can be envisioned as release from the wheel of birth/death/reincarnation for Buddhists that follow the Hindu tradition, while others conceptualize nirvana as a personal transcendence of desire and illusion, a release from the ego. Buddhists who are Buddhists have this definition for nirvana : nirvana \Nir*va"na\, n. [Skr. nirv[=a][.n]a.] In the Buddhist system of religion, the final emancipation of the soul from transmigration, and consequently a beatific enfrachisement from the evils of wordly existence, as by annihilation or absorption into the divine. it is correct that the ones who are Hindus believe differently, but Hindus are not Buddhists... <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Apr 17, 2004, 12:17 pm	#113 (permalink) (top)
floridian Molten Ash Posts: 84	Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation?? </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Dharma Data: Reincarnation The belief that at death the soul leaves the body and reanimates a new one. Reincarnation is a fundamental belief in Hinduism and several other religions but it is rejected by Buddhism which denies the existence of a soul. http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharma...adata/fdd46.htm <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by it is correct that the ones who are Hindus believe differently, but Hindus are not Buddhists...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> It's not an either-or situation. The two belief systems do overlap to an extent.

Apr 17, 2004, 02:08 pm	#114 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	Siddartha taught a very specific path... "Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation??" why would the eightfold path lead to enlightenment which is the end of rebirth, the end of reincarnation, if they didn't believe in reincarnation? It is an either/or situation... Buddhists believe as Buddhists believe, Hindus believe as Hindus believe... they may overlap a bit as all religions do, but they are not the same thing... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Apr 17, 2004, 06:07 pm	#115 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) Siddartha taught a very specific path... "Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation??" why would the eightfold path lead to enlightenment which is the end of rebirth, the end of reincarnation, if they didn't believe in reincarnation? It is an either/or situation... Buddhists believe as Buddhists believe, Hindus believe as Hindus believe... they may overlap a bit as all religions do, but they are not the same thing...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Siddartha did not teach a very specific path. He did say not to follow him but to seek the middle way. The end of suffereing and the eight-fold path are not as specific in concept as the ten commandments. Reincarnation is not clear in Buddhist teachings as in Hindu traditions. I do not think there is such a thing as authentic Buddhism from our point of view any more than an authentic Christianity. Too much time, culture and language problems intervene. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Apr 18, 2004, 10:22 am	#116 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (shunyadragon,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) Siddartha taught a very specific path... "Why do you think that all authentic Buddhists believe in reincarnation??" why would the eightfold path lead to enlightenment which is the end of rebirth, the end of reincarnation, if they didn't believe in reincarnation? It is an either/or situation... Buddhists believe as Buddhists believe, Hindus believe as Hindus believe... they may overlap a bit as all religions do, but they are not the same thing...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Siddartha did not teach a very specific path. He did say not to follow him but to seek the middle way. The end of suffereing and the eight-fold path are not as specific in concept as the ten commandments. Reincarnation is not clear in Buddhist teachings as in Hindu traditions. I do not think there is such a thing as authentic Buddhism from our point of view any more than an authentic Christianity. Too much time, culture and language problems intervene.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> the middle way IS his path... yes the eight fold path is very specific... unless you want to say that the first step on the eightfold path is to kill everyone... do you see my point? the eight fold path is very specific... authentic in the sense that if one is following the religion of Thor one is not christian, authentic or otherwise... if one is not following the teachings of the buddah, one is not buddhist... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Apr 18, 2004, 10:37 am	#117 (permalink) (top)
Mozart1220 Igneous Magma Posts: 687	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (nature of reality,) G. Adams: What they advocate is not "don't get bummed if you fail", but rather "don't want (dont' have the DESIRE to TRY)". There is a major difference; One says you can learn and improve from failure and the other... the other says its not worth the gamble. "Mother Theresa worshipped Jesus." No she was a maggot. She went to India to eat the sores of people. She was drawn to rot and suffering much like that insect. Jesus was the original maggot, who advocated the supremancy of mediocrity and the beauty of death. Sickos both. "Read the new testiment." I have. Jesus is an amazing character... the original socialist/communist, he gave us the first rational glimpse of the result of that sick set of beliefs; the Dark Ages. "Are you an athiest or do you just not like Catholics?" I don't see the relevence. We are talking about Buddhism (christianity too now), not me.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> You are truly a troubled individual. What are you so angry about? did A Buddist try to rape you or something? I'm not a religious person but even I can see the good Jesus and Mother Theresa did. Why don't you try helping other people for a change instead of bitching and whining about something you obviously don't care to understand? Big Jr is watching you!

Apr 22, 2004, 11:03 am	#118 (permalink) (top)
Bob_Dobbs Guest Posts: n/a	true. give buddhism some slack. it's more important to be calm and happy and unencumbered than highly concerned about everything and unable to center. if you can do the world without becoming upset or cluttered then go for it. you could visit www.sukhi.com to find out more about buddhism. i particularly like the smiling yoga.