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Autolykos · Feb 12, 2004, 10:35 am

I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy.

chicagoastronomer · Feb 13, 2004, 03:03 am

Me thinks I shall explore the Buddist way. Beats the hell out of the "Organized" and ignorant beliefs out there.

PeterAngelo · Feb 13, 2004, 08:43 pm

And there are lots of naps too.

shunyadragon · Feb 13, 2004, 09:30 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Autolykos,)
I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Buddhism is indeed a religion and indeed organized. Buddhism's concept of divinities is somewhat different than western religions, but there are indeed divinities in the spiritual worlds in Buddhism.

It is true Buddha said not to make statues of him or worship, but I think Christ indicated this too.

'Organized religion' should not be scape goat for the bad side of religion and the problems of the world. Calling religions hyocritical is not meaningful, because humans are hypocritical by our nature. I do believe that religions and beliefs that are exclusive, superior in belief, reject science and judgemental of others are bad news because of what they believe and bot because they are organized or disorganized religions.

RachelW · Feb 15, 2004, 11:15 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Anarchist Patriot,)
I see it all as the asian view of poverty is that it is a virtue. We westerners have forgotten the virtues of being poor. We want to have the best of everything. The best job, the coolest toys, the fastest car the biggest house etc. But what will it profit you when you die?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

The virtue of being poor?? I honestly can't see any virtue in it.

Now, I can understand how people can be poor who are born into poverty in third-world nations, but it's a completly different cultural dynamic. When you speak of the buddhist village where everyone works for the community, I can see virtue in teamwork and working towards the better whole, and of living simply in service, but that's not our culture in America, even though there may be some merit to it. If you're poor in america it's likely induced through bad choices.

For instance; the homeless in America are largly mentally ill, on drugs, petty criminals, drunks, ect. None of these behaviors are virtuous, but they're poor all right, because they don't want to do what it takes to be self-reliant.

m5lange1 · Feb 15, 2004, 11:36 am

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.

It is easy to watch a drowning man from a boat.

To believe anyone who does not have what you have just did not try, is a fools belief.

It is convenient to dismiss those less fortunate and not think about them. It is cruel to criticize and scorn them.

Anyone who wants to work in this country can do so. Forget that three million jobs have been eliminated and the population keeps increasing. Those jobs are out there. (Wonder who was doing them before those three million people were layed off?)

Remeber when you kiss someone you are putting your mouth on the sweet end of about 60 feet of intestine.

M5

syracusa · Feb 15, 2004, 05:11 pm

"Nature of reality" gotta be Satan himself.
Hi Satan!

Brrrr....the creature give me goose bumps.

Comrade · Feb 15, 2004, 06:58 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (nature of reality,)
honestly, wtf.

If you stop wanting things, then you'll no longer suffer?

Thats is the most retarded thing i have ever heard in my life.

"Hey Frank, my legs are always itchy. What should i do about them?"

"Cut them off, youll never experience the pain of the itch anymore."

Or all that meditation. Sitting on the grass thinkin about the veins on a leaf does JACK CRAP. You still are fat, miserable, or whatever you were, you just have managed to blow 3 hours trying to "empty your mind".

Frankly, that is the exact oposite of what you should be doing...

USING YOUR FRIGGIN MIND TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Hmm.
I don't think you really understand what Buddhism is about, or the concept you are pushing. Try looking at it from a different point of view.
Second, your example has nothing to do with what you said.
I'd try to explain but you won't listen, I know people like you who see things one way and that way is obviously the only way they're capable of seeing.

shunyadragon · Feb 15, 2004, 09:06 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RachelW,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Anarchist Patriot,)
I see it all as the asian view of poverty is that it is a virtue. We westerners have forgotten the virtues of being poor. We want to have the best of everything. The best job, the coolest toys, the fastest car the biggest house etc. But what will it profit you when you die?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

The virtue of being poor?? I honestly can't see any virtue in it.

Now, I can understand how people can be poor who are born into poverty in third-world nations, but it's a completly different cultural dynamic. When you speak of the buddhist village where everyone works for the community, I can see virtue in teamwork and working towards the better whole, and of living simply in service, but that's not our culture in America, even though there may be some merit to it. If you're poor in america it's likely induced through bad choices.

For instance; the homeless in America are largly mentally ill, on drugs, petty criminals, drunks, ect. None of these behaviors are virtuous, but they're poor all right, because they don't want to do what it takes to be self-reliant.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

This a common example of the misunderstandings between east and west. In Buddhism poverty is not a virtue, the simple unadorned life is. The life of monks in the temples and monastaries in Buddhism could hardly be called impoverished. In Buddhism the ideal of life on earth is the middle way and not the life of denial as an ascetic. Hinduism still embraces the doctrine of asceticism.

Man Against Time · Feb 16, 2004, 10:26 am

Being poor is only synonymous with being stupid or inept if you are a materialist pain in the ass Puritan who thinks "hard work" is a virtue.

This is a modern and shekel-grabbing attitude that can only ever even arise from modern economic orders that invert the relationship between aristocracy and labor. In better days, better men were not burdened by work and were thus free to develop their better nature; knights, for example, would have been crappy knights if they had to spend 10 hours a day managing their lands and competing with their neighbor's pay roll deductions from his most recent serf layoff spree. Today, the aristocracy, if you even want to argue we have one, is the aristocracy for the opposite reason, exactly BECAUSE they spend 10 hours a day hunched over their shekels, plotting how to steal more from their neighbors.

Not wanting SUVs and cell phones and fancy lawn-mowers and clothes shithead women wear on TV is not a mark of any vice. Neither is refusing participation in a soulless economic order that demands you waste your life accumulating worthless paper that can buy worthless machines.

PeterAngelo · Feb 18, 2004, 03:37 pm

Many of those drunken losers would be allright if they had the care and family support that George Bush has.

"RachelW" describes George Bush when she describes the average bum. Believe me - turn Bush loose on a city street with nothing but his wits and talent and he will not survive as well as a retarded quadraplegic swimming underwater.

It is only his support system that is still holding him up.

THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE - THE ONLY DIFFERENCE

Many of the destroyed families in this nation are the remnants of the miners, factory workers, soldiers, slaves and "downsized" losers who believed in the American dream.

Blame the victim - keep your head in the sand - it makes it easier for a terrorist to place a bomb in the exposed end.

Automatic Nate · Feb 28, 2004, 01:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Autolykos,)
I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
This is a bit off topic, but in talking to missionaries who work outside Beijing, I've heard that at least Chinese Buddhism usually involves a number of household gods and local spirits--they're always talking about people going to the town gods' shrines and what not. Out in the country, outside the reach of the government, quite a bit of god-activity accompanies Buddhism.

**Pooeypants** · Feb 28, 2004, 04:13 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Automatic Nate,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Autolykos,)
I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
This is a bit off topic, but in talking to missionaries who work outside Beijing, I've heard that at least Chinese Buddhism usually involves a number of household gods and local spirits--they're always talking about people going to the town gods' shrines and what not. Out in the country, outside the reach of the government, quite a bit of god-activity accompanies Buddhism.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
That's actually Confusicism (sp?) mixed in with Buddhism, the worship of ancestors and a pantheon of Gods (Taoism?). It was integrated with Buddhism and thus spreading itself across China.

Automatic Nate · Feb 28, 2004, 04:35 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants)

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
This is a bit off topic, but in talking to missionaries who work outside Beijing, I've heard that at least Chinese Buddhism usually involves a number of household gods and local spirits--they're always talking about people going to the town gods' shrines and what not. Out in the country, outside the reach of the government, quite a bit of god-activity accompanies Buddhism.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
That's actually Confusicism (sp?) mixed in with Buddhism, the worship of ancestors and a pantheon of Gods (Taoism?). It was integrated with Buddhism and thus spreading itself across China.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Fair enough. My point was only that the "Buddhist who's more philosophical than religious" is a character that one usually only finds among the wealthier, better-educated populations in China. I did frame that poorly, though.

shunyadragon · Feb 28, 2004, 09:09 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Automatic Nate,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants)

That's actually Confusicism (sp?) mixed in with Buddhism, the worship of ancestors and a pantheon of Gods (Taoism?). It was integrated with Buddhism and thus spreading itself across China.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Fair enough. My point was only that the "Buddhist who's more philosophical than religious" is a character that one usually only finds among the wealthier, better-educated populations in China. I did frame that poorly, though.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

There are many misconceptions in the west concerning the Oriental religions and phillosophies. Even though there is a mix of religions in China, there are some distinctions between the religions that are clear.

Confucianism is basically social phillosophy of relationships in the family society and government and has defined the heirarchy of order in China for thousands of years.

The religion of China is basically being Chinese centered on the Han nationality (90%+ of the population). The foudation of Chinese religious beliefs is in thousands of years of traditional beliefs that are not Taoist or Buddhist. The traditional beliefs of divinities, holidays, beliefs in afterlife, dragons and strong superstitions like numerology are all older than Taoism and Buddhism. These other Gods and religious beliefs are often associated with Buddhism and Taoism, but they are older.

Being Buddhist is not well correlated with the level of education in China.

Taoism and Buddhism added another layer and did create a blend of spiritual/phillisophical beliefs. Though the vedic divinities of Buddhism and reincarnation do not play a major role in China (Tibetian Buddhism is more vedic than Chinese Buddhism.), except for Guanyin, the Goddess/God, which is blend of vedic and existing beliefs of a Chinese Goddess often called the Goddess of Mercy.

This happened to a certain extent in Europe when most people became Christian. The underlying beliefs of the older traditional beliefs and holidays were adapted and blended with Christianity.

Sandy · Feb 29, 2004, 07:07 am

I think all religion is just an excuse for not thinking rathionally!

Automatic Nate · Feb 29, 2004, 08:39 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sandy,)
I think all religion is just an excuse for not thinking rathionally!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Any explication of that claim, or are you just going to make a claim?

shunyadragon · Feb 29, 2004, 06:39 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sandy,)
I think all religion is just an excuse for not thinking rathionally!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Religion is just a word for what people believe. The Unitarian church is a very rational religion.

thrillofitall · Feb 29, 2004, 07:52 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (nature of reality,)
honestly, wtf.

If you stop wanting things, then you'll no longer suffer?

Thats is the most retarded thing i have ever heard in my life.

"Hey Frank, my legs are always itchy. What should i do about them?"

"Cut them off, youll never experience the pain of the itch anymore."

Or all that meditation. Sitting on the grass thinkin about the veins on a leaf does JACK CRAP. You still are fat, miserable, or whatever you were, you just have managed to blow 3 hours trying to "empty your mind".

Frankly, that is the exact oposite of what you should be doing...

USING YOUR FRIGGIN MIND TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

wow. you are amazingly ignorant. is this a joke?

first of all, that "Hey Frank..." bit is totally out of place. First of all, if you are a successful buddhist, you don't need to worry about material possessions and you are content with living off the minimum of life. you learn to enjoy life by whats around you. you are obviously someone who only believes in captalism and material pocessions, and you don't believe in pocessions of the mind. I think you are just mad because you dont know how to live by your own mind and you may be, fat, miserable, or something else. I'm sorry for you. I suggest you research the religion a bit more before starting a rediculous topic like this one.

Mia · Mar 2, 2004, 05:58 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (G. Adams,)
I don't think of myself as an expert on Buddhism, but 3-4 years of studying it, and 2 years of being a buddhist (stopped because I couldn't get buddhism and revolution to be compatible...) did give me some knowledge.

And Buddhism does not reject the will to try, just the attatchment to that trying. Don't hold onto it, or anything, because it is impermanent, and that attatchment leads to suffering.

<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

This is a good rule to follow regardless of your faith. It is not in our pursuit of goals that huts us, it's our "we must have this or all is lost" feeling. That is all this is meant to prevent. Very healthy.

Feb 12, 2004, 10:35 am	#61 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy. "I'd rather be free and alive!" -- Ron Paul Religion isn't the greatest threat to mankind -- authoritarianism is. The Anarcheion Zeitgeist

Feb 13, 2004, 03:03 am	#62 (permalink) (top)
chicagoastronomer Sedimentary Rock Posts: 22	Me thinks I shall explore the Buddist way. Beats the hell out of the "Organized" and ignorant beliefs out there. <span style='color:blue'>"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars"...</span> Oscar Wilde 1854-1900

Feb 13, 2004, 09:30 pm	#64 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Autolykos,) I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Buddhism is indeed a religion and indeed organized. Buddhism's concept of divinities is somewhat different than western religions, but there are indeed divinities in the spiritual worlds in Buddhism. It is true Buddha said not to make statues of him or worship, but I think Christ indicated this too. 'Organized religion' should not be scape goat for the bad side of religion and the problems of the world. Calling religions hyocritical is not meaningful, because humans are hypocritical by our nature. I do believe that religions and beliefs that are exclusive, superior in belief, reject science and judgemental of others are bad news because of what they believe and bot because they are organized or disorganized religions. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Feb 15, 2004, 11:15 am	#65 (permalink) (top)
RachelW Sedimentary Rock Posts: 1	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Anarchist Patriot,) I see it all as the asian view of poverty is that it is a virtue. We westerners have forgotten the virtues of being poor. We want to have the best of everything. The best job, the coolest toys, the fastest car the biggest house etc. But what will it profit you when you die?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> The virtue of being poor?? I honestly can't see any virtue in it. Now, I can understand how people can be poor who are born into poverty in third-world nations, but it's a completly different cultural dynamic. When you speak of the buddhist village where everyone works for the community, I can see virtue in teamwork and working towards the better whole, and of living simply in service, but that's not our culture in America, even though there may be some merit to it. If you're poor in america it's likely induced through bad choices. For instance; the homeless in America are largly mentally ill, on drugs, petty criminals, drunks, ect. None of these behaviors are virtuous, but they're poor all right, because they don't want to do what it takes to be self-reliant.

Feb 15, 2004, 11:36 am	#66 (permalink) (top)
m5lange1 Igneous Magma Posts: 649	It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. It is easy to watch a drowning man from a boat. To believe anyone who does not have what you have just did not try, is a fools belief. It is convenient to dismiss those less fortunate and not think about them. It is cruel to criticize and scorn them. Anyone who wants to work in this country can do so. Forget that three million jobs have been eliminated and the population keeps increasing. Those jobs are out there. (Wonder who was doing them before those three million people were layed off?) Remeber when you kiss someone you are putting your mouth on the sweet end of about 60 feet of intestine. M5 Protester against the culture war!!!!

Feb 13, 2004, 08:43 pm	#63 (permalink) (top)
PeterAngelo Igneous Magma Posts: 169	And there are lots of naps too.

Feb 15, 2004, 05:11 pm	#67 (permalink) (top)
syracusa Igneous Magma Posts: 623	"Nature of reality" gotta be Satan himself. Hi Satan! Brrrr....the creature give me goose bumps. COMPETITION BRINGS THE BEST IN PRODUCTS AND THE WORST IN RELATIONSHIPS.

Feb 15, 2004, 06:58 pm	#68 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (nature of reality,) honestly, wtf. If you stop wanting things, then you'll no longer suffer? Thats is the most retarded thing i have ever heard in my life. "Hey Frank, my legs are always itchy. What should i do about them?" "Cut them off, youll never experience the pain of the itch anymore." Or all that meditation. Sitting on the grass thinkin about the veins on a leaf does JACK CRAP. You still are fat, miserable, or whatever you were, you just have managed to blow 3 hours trying to "empty your mind". Frankly, that is the exact oposite of what you should be doing... USING YOUR FRIGGIN MIND TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Hmm. I don't think you really understand what Buddhism is about, or the concept you are pushing. Try looking at it from a different point of view. Second, your example has nothing to do with what you said. I'd try to explain but you won't listen, I know people like you who see things one way and that way is obviously the only way they're capable of seeing. Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Feb 15, 2004, 09:06 pm	#69 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RachelW,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Anarchist Patriot,) I see it all as the asian view of poverty is that it is a virtue. We westerners have forgotten the virtues of being poor. We want to have the best of everything. The best job, the coolest toys, the fastest car the biggest house etc. But what will it profit you when you die?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> The virtue of being poor?? I honestly can't see any virtue in it. Now, I can understand how people can be poor who are born into poverty in third-world nations, but it's a completly different cultural dynamic. When you speak of the buddhist village where everyone works for the community, I can see virtue in teamwork and working towards the better whole, and of living simply in service, but that's not our culture in America, even though there may be some merit to it. If you're poor in america it's likely induced through bad choices. For instance; the homeless in America are largly mentally ill, on drugs, petty criminals, drunks, ect. None of these behaviors are virtuous, but they're poor all right, because they don't want to do what it takes to be self-reliant.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This a common example of the misunderstandings between east and west. In Buddhism poverty is not a virtue, the simple unadorned life is. The life of monks in the temples and monastaries in Buddhism could hardly be called impoverished. In Buddhism the ideal of life on earth is the middle way and not the life of denial as an ascetic. Hinduism still embraces the doctrine of asceticism. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Feb 16, 2004, 10:26 am	#70 (permalink) (top)
Man Against Time Molten Ash Location: NJ Posts: 113	Being poor is only synonymous with being stupid or inept if you are a materialist pain in the ass Puritan who thinks "hard work" is a virtue. This is a modern and shekel-grabbing attitude that can only ever even arise from modern economic orders that invert the relationship between aristocracy and labor. In better days, better men were not burdened by work and were thus free to develop their better nature; knights, for example, would have been crappy knights if they had to spend 10 hours a day managing their lands and competing with their neighbor's pay roll deductions from his most recent serf layoff spree. Today, the aristocracy, if you even want to argue we have one, is the aristocracy for the opposite reason, exactly BECAUSE they spend 10 hours a day hunched over their shekels, plotting how to steal more from their neighbors. Not wanting SUVs and cell phones and fancy lawn-mowers and clothes shithead women wear on TV is not a mark of any vice. Neither is refusing participation in a soulless economic order that demands you waste your life accumulating worthless paper that can buy worthless machines. "Die! Fall upon your sword. Fall upon your knee. Die like your Son, nailed to his Tree. Die by my hand. Die in my heart, plucked from the Ice; forever cold."

Feb 18, 2004, 03:37 pm	#71 (permalink) (top)
PeterAngelo Igneous Magma Posts: 169	Many of those drunken losers would be allright if they had the care and family support that George Bush has. "RachelW" describes George Bush when she describes the average bum. Believe me - turn Bush loose on a city street with nothing but his wits and talent and he will not survive as well as a retarded quadraplegic swimming underwater. It is only his support system that is still holding him up. THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE - THE ONLY DIFFERENCE Many of the destroyed families in this nation are the remnants of the miners, factory workers, soldiers, slaves and "downsized" losers who believed in the American dream. Blame the victim - keep your head in the sand - it makes it easier for a terrorist to place a bomb in the exposed end.

Feb 28, 2004, 01:01 pm	#72 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Autolykos,) I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This is a bit off topic, but in talking to missionaries who work outside Beijing, I've heard that at least Chinese Buddhism usually involves a number of household gods and local spirits--they're always talking about people going to the town gods' shrines and what not. Out in the country, outside the reach of the government, quite a bit of god-activity accompanies Buddhism. "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Feb 28, 2004, 04:13 pm	#73 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,549	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Automatic Nate,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Autolykos,) I say that Buddhism is not really a religion. After all, Buddhism, in its classical sense, does not require the worship of any deities (not even Buddha himself, although many later sects adopted worship of him). It is really just a systematic philosophy.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This is a bit off topic, but in talking to missionaries who work outside Beijing, I've heard that at least Chinese Buddhism usually involves a number of household gods and local spirits--they're always talking about people going to the town gods' shrines and what not. Out in the country, outside the reach of the government, quite a bit of god-activity accompanies Buddhism.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> That's actually Confusicism (sp?) mixed in with Buddhism, the worship of ancestors and a pantheon of Gods (Taoism?). It was integrated with Buddhism and thus spreading itself across China. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Feb 28, 2004, 04:35 pm	#74 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by This is a bit off topic, but in talking to missionaries who work outside Beijing, I've heard that at least Chinese Buddhism usually involves a number of household gods and local spirits--they're always talking about people going to the town gods' shrines and what not. Out in the country, outside the reach of the government, quite a bit of god-activity accompanies Buddhism.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> That's actually Confusicism (sp?) mixed in with Buddhism, the worship of ancestors and a pantheon of Gods (Taoism?). It was integrated with Buddhism and thus spreading itself across China.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Fair enough. My point was only that the "Buddhist who's more philosophical than religious" is a character that one usually only finds among the wealthier, better-educated populations in China. I did frame that poorly, though. "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Feb 28, 2004, 09:09 pm	#75 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Automatic Nate,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants) That's actually Confusicism (sp?) mixed in with Buddhism, the worship of ancestors and a pantheon of Gods (Taoism?). It was integrated with Buddhism and thus spreading itself across China.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Fair enough. My point was only that the "Buddhist who's more philosophical than religious" is a character that one usually only finds among the wealthier, better-educated populations in China. I did frame that poorly, though.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> There are many misconceptions in the west concerning the Oriental religions and phillosophies. Even though there is a mix of religions in China, there are some distinctions between the religions that are clear. Confucianism is basically social phillosophy of relationships in the family society and government and has defined the heirarchy of order in China for thousands of years. The religion of China is basically being Chinese centered on the Han nationality (90%+ of the population). The foudation of Chinese religious beliefs is in thousands of years of traditional beliefs that are not Taoist or Buddhist. The traditional beliefs of divinities, holidays, beliefs in afterlife, dragons and strong superstitions like numerology are all older than Taoism and Buddhism. These other Gods and religious beliefs are often associated with Buddhism and Taoism, but they are older. Being Buddhist is not well correlated with the level of education in China. Taoism and Buddhism added another layer and did create a blend of spiritual/phillisophical beliefs. Though the vedic divinities of Buddhism and reincarnation do not play a major role in China (Tibetian Buddhism is more vedic than Chinese Buddhism.), except for Guanyin, the Goddess/God, which is blend of vedic and existing beliefs of a Chinese Goddess often called the Goddess of Mercy. This happened to a certain extent in Europe when most people became Christian. The underlying beliefs of the older traditional beliefs and holidays were adapted and blended with Christianity. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Feb 29, 2004, 07:07 am	#76 (permalink) (top)
Sandy Igneous Magma Posts: 239	I think all religion is just an excuse for not thinking rathionally!

Feb 29, 2004, 08:39 am	#77 (permalink) (top)
Automatic Nate Molten Ash Location: Bogart, GA, USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sandy,) I think all religion is just an excuse for not thinking rathionally!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Any explication of that claim, or are you just going to make a claim? "For neither Man nor Angel can discern Hypocrisie, The only evil that walks Invisible, except to God" --Paradise Lost

Feb 29, 2004, 06:39 pm	#78 (permalink) (top)
shunyadragon Hot Lava Location: Hillsborough, NC Posts: 940	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sandy,) I think all religion is just an excuse for not thinking rathionally!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Religion is just a word for what people believe. The Unitarian church is a very rational religion. The empty cup contains the most Frank A Doonan Turn weapons into peace and friendship with gifts of jade-silk www.shunyadragon.com I do not know, therefore I think . . .

Feb 29, 2004, 07:52 pm	#79 (permalink) (top)
thrillofitall Sedimentary Rock Location: Massachusetts, USA Posts: 20	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (nature of reality,) honestly, wtf. If you stop wanting things, then you'll no longer suffer? Thats is the most retarded thing i have ever heard in my life. "Hey Frank, my legs are always itchy. What should i do about them?" "Cut them off, youll never experience the pain of the itch anymore." Or all that meditation. Sitting on the grass thinkin about the veins on a leaf does JACK CRAP. You still are fat, miserable, or whatever you were, you just have managed to blow 3 hours trying to "empty your mind". Frankly, that is the exact oposite of what you should be doing... USING YOUR FRIGGIN MIND TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> wow. you are amazingly ignorant. is this a joke? first of all, that "Hey Frank..." bit is totally out of place. First of all, if you are a successful buddhist, you don't need to worry about material possessions and you are content with living off the minimum of life. you learn to enjoy life by whats around you. you are obviously someone who only believes in captalism and material pocessions, and you don't believe in pocessions of the mind. I think you are just mad because you dont know how to live by your own mind and you may be, fat, miserable, or something else. I'm sorry for you. I suggest you research the religion a bit more before starting a rediculous topic like this one.

Mar 2, 2004, 05:58 am	#80 (permalink) (top)
Mia Retired Posts: 7,312	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (G. Adams,) I don't think of myself as an expert on Buddhism, but 3-4 years of studying it, and 2 years of being a buddhist (stopped because I couldn't get buddhism and revolution to be compatible...) did give me some knowledge. And Buddhism does not reject the will to try, just the attatchment to that trying. Don't hold onto it, or anything, because it is impermanent, and that attatchment leads to suffering. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This is a good rule to follow regardless of your faith. It is not in our pursuit of goals that huts us, it's our "we must have this or all is lost" feeling. That is all this is meant to prevent. Very healthy. "...with like-minded people one cannot discuss. With like-minded people one can only participate in a church service, and you know how I feel about church services." Ayaan Hirsi Ali