The Problem With Islam

[arX]

Had you read the hadiths within it's context, you would have known that Muhammad was blessed with a miraculous healing ability to remove doubt and evil thoughts from a person. It is performed by pushing his hands upon someone's chest.

This is almost as funny as the toothbrush defence.

Can you quote the hadith that supports this nonsense?

[Buzz62]

Response: Yet after reading your post, yourself, as well as the other non-Muslims here, have failed to support any of your claims with any sound logic. And after exposing the false interpretations of the sunnah and qur'an with context from both, I can surely say to you that I don't feel picked on at all nor will I. How can I when I when everything was debunked with ease?

As for your comments concerning light hitting of the wife, we notice from you as well that you can't provide any logical counter rebuttal to demonstrate any bad or injustice in the act. Thus your own words reflect that it's a good thing and surely would not cause me any moral grief.

Oh...well then...with all "due" respect...we don't hit, nor justify hitting our wives here. Its just a thing with us called THE LAW!!! The act of hitting one's wife would come under the heading of ASSAULT!!! If you happen to live on this side of the pond, you'd do well to observe that particular LAW, as wife-beaters tend to get a rather bumpy RIDE in JAIL!

I hope you and Ala have a nice life together...

[Fatihah]

Hitting is simply demeaning and just shows how "equal" men and women are in Islam. Marriage (at least in the civilized parts of the world) implies equal parties entering into a contractual agreement. Does the quran state that a woman can hit her husband? Your reasoning is flawed because you fail to recognize that the rest of the civilized world considers any hitting to be probable cause for a domestic violence investigation, and the fact that the ability is prescribed only to the man makes it even more unconscionable.

Your reasoning is clearly warped as you suggest I explore dictionaries for the standards of law. Well, the rest of the civilized world doesn't use dictionaries nor old, out-dated, and clearly irrelevant religious texts to stipulate what can and cannot be done because we recognize that it is inhumane, and not everyone need follow one religion. If you want to continue defending domestic abuse then that is your prerogative, but good luck doing so successfully in any court in the civilized world.

Response: Then according to your logic, if a woman takes her husband to court for tapping her on the shoulder the court would punish him. Again, the absurdity in your logic is uncanny. And if punishing people for light taping is your definition of a civilized world, than I can say on behalf of all civilized people that we are glad your world doesn't exists. You can continue to justify your slandering and condemnation to a harmless act if you want. It doesn't discredit Islam at all, but only draws attention to how fortunate we are for not being governed by your wicked ideology.

[Fatihah]

This is almost as funny as the toothbrush defence.

Can you quote the hadith that supports this nonsense?

Response: To the contrary, your lack of rebuttal is almost as funny as your inability to even present a sound argument.

As for the hadith, volume 4, book 52, number 273 of Sahih Bukhari.

[Fatihah]

Oh...well then...with all "due" respect...we don't hit, nor justify hitting our wives here. Its just a thing with us called THE LAW!!! The act of hitting one's wife would come under the heading of ASSAULT!!! If you happen to live on this side of the pond, you'd do well to observe that particular LAW, as wife-beaters tend to get a rather bumpy RIDE in JAIL!

I hope you and Ala have a nice life together...

Response: There's no such law or courtroom on the face of the planet that convicts people for tapping. Perhaps you should read up on your laws and if such laws do exist, then gather enough moral and courage to prevent such a heinous law.

[brendand]

Response: Then according to your logic, if a woman takes her husband to court for tapping her on the shoulder the court would punish him. Again, the absurdity in your logic is uncanny. And if punishing people for light taping is your definition of a civilized world, than I can say on behalf of all civilized people that we are glad your world doesn't exists. You can continue to justify your slandering and condemnation to a harmless act if you want. It doesn't discredit Islam at all, but only draws attention to how fortunate we are for not being governed by your wicked ideology.

Tapping on the shoulder is not equal to hitting someone, lightly or not, as a punishment. You continue to justify your twisted beliefs by conflating punishment with harmless action, like tapping or freeze tag. If the hitting were equal to those, then why is hitting a wife considered punishment when those other actions are clearly not? You are not following any rational basis for your assertions as the hitting the quran prescribes is considered a punishment and thus must inherently have an effect more vast than a benign tap on someone's shoulder (which is not a punishment). It is interesting that you consider my ideology wicked as I have not deviated from the law of most civilized countries, so thus I do not know on behalf of which civilized country you speak. If you think it is logical to physically punish a woman who does not possess the equal power under the quran to do the same to her husband, then I suggest, if you actually are in a civilized country, you prepare for lawsuit in family law, under any jurisdiction not under the tyranny of the quran, following the pursuit of these actions if anyone speaks up. It is illegal, and it is domestic violence, and there are no shades of grey here. It would be interesting to hear someone try to convince the court that the quran, or a god or whatever, lets him hit his wife so it is ok. It would be a pretty fast guilty charge. But I suppose Taqiyya would allow him to lie under any threatening circumstances right?

I can not believe someone knows all this and still follows this illogic.

[Angry Citizen]

Exactly what is the point of 'lightly tapping' someone if not to cause pain as a punishment? You are poorly justifying Islam's stated intention of keeping its women subservient to the men, with repercussions for disobedience that include physical abuse.

[brendand]

Response: There's no such law or courtroom on the face of the planet that convicts people for tapping. Perhaps you should read up on your laws and if such laws do exist, then gather enough moral and courage to prevent such a heinous law.

I would like to see what law you think allows you to put your hands on anyone else that is not found in some ancient religious text.

[Fatihah]

Tapping on the shoulder is not equal to hitting someone, lightly or not, as a punishment. You continue to justify your twisted beliefs by conflating punishment with harmless action, like tapping or freeze tag. If the hitting were equal to those, then why is hitting a wife considered punishment when those other actions are clearly not? You are not following any rational basis for your assertions as the hitting the quran prescribes is considered a punishment and thus must inherently have an effect more vast than a benign tap on someone's shoulder (which is not a punishment). It is interesting that you consider my ideology wicked as I have not deviated from the law of most civilized countries, so thus I do not know on behalf of which civilized country you speak. If you think it is logical to physically punish a woman who does not possess the equal power under the quran to do the same to her husband, then I suggest, if you actually are in a civilized country, you prepare for lawsuit in family law, under any jurisdiction not under the tyranny of the quran, following the pursuit of these actions if anyone speaks up. It is illegal, and it is domestic violence, and there are no shades of grey here. It would be interesting to hear someone try to convince the court that the quran, or a god or whatever, lets him hit his wife so it is ok. It would be a pretty fast guilty charge. But I suppose Taqiyya would allow him to lie under any threatening circumstances right?

I can not believe someone knows all this and still follows this illogic.

Response: You should be answering the same questions in which you ask. For it is your cruel ideology which suggests that hitting someone lightly in which causes no pain or marks is abuse. To top it off, you repeat the sadistic claim that this is the view of most civilized. Then you and your alleged civilized people need to seek the first psychiatric hospital as soon as possible and get a reality check. Your slandering and condemnation of an act which causes no physical harm and calling for it to be punishable by law if acted out is the crime. If light hitting which causes no pain or marks is a severe crime then according to your logic, every football player to ever make a tackle should be put away for life. Every child to ever play tag is a criminal. Your ideology is sadistic and has no place for any civilized society.

[Fatihah]

Exactly what is the point of 'lightly tapping' someone if not to cause pain as a punishment? You are poorly justifying Islam's stated intention of keeping its women subservient to the men, with repercussions for disobedience that include physical abuse.

Response: To the contrary, you're poorly justifying your slander and condemnation on a harmless act. For a hit which causes no pain or marks can never be considered abusive or keeping a woman subservient to men to any reasonable and moral person. What is your ruling on a parent who spanks their child as a discipline act, like many parents do, without leaving a mark or causing pain? Are you suggesting that all of these parents are ruthless and immoral? That they should be punished? Even most of the people here were either spanked and as parents spank themselves. That makes you unjust and ruthless people too right.?

[Fatihah]

I would like to see what law you think allows you to put your hands on anyone else that is not found in some ancient religious text.

Response: I would like you to name me one person to ever sit in jail for hitting someone without causing them pain or leaving a mark.

[brendand]

Response: You should be answering the same questions in which you ask. For it is your cruel ideology which suggests that hitting someone lightly in which causes no pain or marks is abuse. To top it off, you repeat the sadistic claim that this is the view of most civilized. Then you and your alleged civilized people need to seek the first psychiatric hospital as soon as possible and get a reality check. Your slandering and condemnation of an act which causes no physical harm and calling for it to be punishable by law if acted out is the crime. If light hitting which causes no pain or marks is a severe crime then according to your logic, every football player to ever make a tackle should be put away for life. Every child to ever play tag is a criminal. Your ideology is sadistic and has no place for any civilized society.

Sorry, it is not my opinion, it is the law. If it caused no harm then it would not be a punishment. What standard is set to the amount of force that can be applied in hitting as per the rule in the quran? Are there quran police who make sure that every hit is equal to a light tap? Think about why a husband would hit his wife as a punishment - he would have to be angry as she would have had to do something wrong. This would cause someone to be aggressive and to lose a bit of self control. So your suggestion that the standard of hitting will always merely be equivalent to a tap is outrageous. It is 100% domestic violence according to the law, just like any other unnecessary force within a marriage. They are wives not children - although I do think spanking may be a bit excessive too. Football and tapping are not punishments; football is a sport, and a light tap is to grab someone's attention. Neither are done to ammend any wrongdoing and have completely different purposes to hitting someone out of punishment. A husband putting his hands on his wife as a punishment is, without question, domestic violence and is illegal according to most civilized jurisdictions. You can believe it or not, argue or not, but this is not my opinion and if you do not like the law, then lobby for its change. I doubt you will get very far as the rest of the world has made it clear that the nearly unanimous opinion on domestic violence is that it is inherently wrong.