Narcotics Annonymous

[Suburbanite]

I went to two meeting tonight. I was witness to some of the most bizarre fellowship of men and women I've ever seen. I imagine it is what a Church would look like if it didn't suck ass. The members told amazing stories, things that just blew my mind. I saw huge tough men break down and cry. I got to hear a man who has been in prison for over 30 years talk about the entire experience. I recommend going. Some of them give you snacks, and the twisted and weird perspective they have given me, through their philosophy, was very uplifting. I'm not personally an addict, but I told them I was, so they were just as open with me as anyone else. Try it! It's only an hour.

[admiraladz]

So let me get this straight - you went to a narcotic addict councelling session as a form of ENTERTAINMENT! - you are one sick puppy Suburbanite.

Apparently:
You lie to people to get into their confidence?
You get off on seeing guys cry because they messed their lives up?
You enjoy hearing how crappy other peoples lives are so you can feel better about your own?

I think you should take a good long hard look at yourself in the mirror and think about what you did. Those people are trying to 'recover' not just from addiction, but to recover their life, dignity, sense of self, sense of worth, and belief in humanity - in one fell swoop you prove to them that people really are selfish scum and they may as well carry on stealing TV's to fund a habit and if they have to shoot a few Suburbanites along the way because they got all uppity about it and tried to stop them then big deal ....

Frankly I can't think of any reason why anyone would do what you did, let alone brag about it, let alone suggest other people do it as well.

("snacks" ... you really do have no soul)

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by admiraladz,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (admiraladz,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> So let me get this straight - you went to a narcotic addict councelling session as a form of ENTERTAINMENT! - you are one sick puppy Suburbanite. [/b]

No, it is to get a Marijuana Possession charge dismissed.

Originally posted by admiraladz,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (admiraladz,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Apparently: You lie to people to get into their confidence? [/b]

What was I supposed to do, get in a fight with coke heads? If I didn’t I would have been kicked, I didn’t embellish, I said Hi, my name, and then I said I was an addict and sat down. It wasn’t for their confidence, it was required.

Originally posted by admiraladz, You get off on seeing guys cry because they messed their lives up?

I didn’t get off, I was impressed, the guy was definitely not the kind of guy who would be doing this anywhere else. It was remarkable.

<!--QuoteBegin-admiraladz,@

You enjoy hearing how crappy other peoples lives are so you can feel better about your own?
[/quote]

Naw, this isn’t the beginning of fight club. What I enjoyed was just the stories and experiences these people have gone through, related to their addiction or not. It didn’t have to be negative, I enjoyed hearing about some of their army/marine stories or one guy talking about how he moved around a lot.

<!--QuoteBegin-admiraladz,

I think you should take a good long hard look at yourself in the mirror and think about what you did. Those people are trying to 'recover' not just from addiction, but to recover their life, dignity, sense of self, sense of worth, and belief in humanity - in one fell swoop you prove to them that people really are selfish scum and they may as well carry on stealing TV's to fund a habit and if they have to shoot a few Suburbanites along the way because they got all uppity about it and tried to stop them then big deal ....

Frankly I can't think of any reason why anyone would do what you did, let alone brag about it, let alone suggest other people do it as well.

("snacks" ... you really do have no soul)[/quote]

Mostly just cookies and coffee. And no, I don’t have a soul, my soulless comrade.
You have it all wrong amigo. It is inspiration I found as the message is just a good one, it doesn't only apply to narcotic addicts but anyone with a vice.

[admiraladz]

I guess I start with an apology. From your post I assumed by your line 'I'm not personally an addict, but I told them I was, so they were just as open with me as anyone else' coupled with 'Try it' that you were there for entertainment purposes, not legal reasons.

I can understand how under those circumstances you would want to share what became a positive 'uplifting experience' and not a way to make you feel better about yourself (uplifting your spirits). By 'try it' I thought you were advocating people go to sessions designed to help rehabilitate for the sole purpose of mocking.

That thought was so perverse to me I couldn't stop myself from responding. I should have asked why you were there before blowing my top.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Suburbanite, I said Hi, my name, and then I said I was an addict and sat down.  It wasn’t for their confidence, it was required.

It is not required, they would appreciate your honesty. Tell them your 1st name and that you are there because the court sent you. No need to go into any gory details. They will still share their own experience, strength and hope regardless of yours. Only thing you need to keep in mind is that they may ask you to leave a "Closed" meeting. Closed meetings are for members who KNOW they have a problem and are trying to save their lives. Closed meetings are not like some "Secret Society" they just dont want their meeting hijacked or interrupted by someone whose motives may water down the primary purpose. AA and NA are all inclusive; with only one requirement for membership: A desire to stop drinking and using drugs.
If you dont have that desire, you can go to "Open" meetings. The schedule has a © or (O) designating closed or open.

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by gr8fuldaniel,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (gr8fuldaniel,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>It is not required, they would appreciate your honesty. Tell them your 1st name and that you are there because the court sent you. No need to go into any gory details. They will still share their own experience, strength and hope regardless of yours. Only thing you need to keep in mind is that they may ask you to leave a "Closed" meeting. Closed meetings are for members who KNOW they have a problem and are trying to save their lives. Closed meetings are not like some "Secret Society" they just dont want their meeting hijacked or interrupted by someone whose motives may water down the primary purpose. AA and NA are all inclusive; with only one requirement for membership: A desire to stop drinking and using drugs. If you dont have that desire, you can go to "Open" meetings. The schedule has a © or (O) designating closed or open.[/b]

Why do I need to make an issue out of myself? When one of them men who was in charged asked me while I was there during a break I told him for legal reasons, but I assured him I was trying to take the best from this situation and that I enjoyed it. Good to know though about the “open” and “closed” thing though.

<!--QuoteBegin-admiraladz,
I guess I start with an apology.[/quote]

Accepted, thank you.

[Technosoul]

Be careful, a lot of people get addicted to those meetings or support groups.

Of course, support-group addiction is not unlawful so you cannot get into a lot of trouble, but both dependances would be phycholical, as far as I unstand it smoking pot is not physically addictive.

But why do they serve coffee which as a known addiciton? Once you get that habit you cannot give it up with ease without suffering headaches. I knew a few cops who were addicted to doughnut houses, coffee and doughnuts, you might end up like those cops who busted you.

But if you must attend then here is something interesting.

Many addictions result from "talking with friends" about our personal life. And whatever is used during those talks becomes the medium. The substance becomes the "bonding" factor subconsiously. And when the friendly person is not around we still bond with then by the use of that substance, and thus create a phycholical addiction.

Passing around a cigarette or a joint with the "old gang" makes us feel we are part of that in-crowd, even if it is only one other person. Called the "freak flag". We continue the habit out of a sense of loyality. Be true your school by playing the same songs that we shared with them back then, and the same other "stuff". Bonding via those things like the pot or the beer.

Drinking beer is about hanging out and bonding and talking, or we can about things over a cup of coffee, or if the whole family gets together to talk about the day over dinner, we become addicted to eating food, and get fat.

Thus, the cigaretter (or whatever) becomes like a old friend, and it is hard to leave an old friend.

Very few people know about this, least of them being the phychologists who likewise depend upon people getting addicted to their treatments.

So next time you break bread together or lift that glass or romantic wine - remember - if it feels good it can become addictive.

However I doubt if anyone will become or remain addictive free, something will hook you. So it might be wise to think ahead and pick what addiction has the least amout of bad side effects for our life.

Technosoul.

[Technosoul]

Okay, forgot to edit my spelling again... I do a lot of what some call automatic writing, I do not think things out ahead of time but just start typing in what comes into my mind at the moment I am plucking away at these keys - fast like (sometimes hard to keep up with the data my brain is providing form "wherever" it was located).

Then I hit the "add reply" button also without thinking "hmm? better do a word check" .... but too late for 2nd thoughts.

Technosoul.

[Suburbanite]

they all smoke and drink coffee because replacing addictions with less serious ones helps.

[Gorgo]

Helps what? Helps them to be addicted to something else?

[Lava]

Adiction is funny. What I find funniest about it is that people can be so completely unclued yet really think they understand it. I dont know why that is.

I guess this applies to addicts as well, who mostly just dont get what theyre getting into when theyre getting into it.

Lava

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Gorgo, Helps what?  Helps them to be addicted to something else?

I have never crashed a car or ended up in jail or couldnt make it to work or started any fights or destroyed a relationship or thought about killing myself because of my addiction to coffee and cigarettes. I have experienced all of that from drugs and alcohol. I have never stolen coffee. I have stolen cigarettes. Cigarettes are a serious addiction but they kill us slower and once you take away the booze and drugs, you can decide with a clearer mind if and when you will do something about these lesser addictions. The 12 steps of AA helped me quit smoking on Dec. 8, 1995(Drinking and drugs Aug 94). I have not smoked a single cig since that day. It really is only about one cigarette. I simply applied the same principles that I applied to my Alcoholism and drug addiction. I still drink coffee, but I dont think of it as a vice like drugs, alcohol, and tobacco.
Unlike coffee, which I can have a couple of cups and be done with it. With the other stuff its like sex with a gorilla, you aint done til the gorilla says you are done.

[Gorgo]

Your decision to smoke and drink coffee has nothing to do with your decision to drink. They are all based on false beliefs.

That's like saying I'm fat because eating "helped" me quit smoking. There is no 'need' to overeat, there is no 'need' to smoke, there is no 'need' to drink too much alcohol.

I used to think that if I only started smoking again, (quit in '87 after about 19 years) then I could lose some weight. Then I see some huge guy struggle to get out of a van with a cigarette.

I'm not criticizing anyone for having addictions, I'm just saying that they're separate things. I don't think you'd encourage anyone to quit drinking by taking up cigarettes?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Originally posted by Suburbanite,+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Suburbanite,)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>they all smoke and drink coffee because replacing addictions with less serious ones helps.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Gorgo
Helps what? Helps them to be addicted to something else? [/quote]OK I see what you are saying now, Gorgo. I agree we shouldnt take up new addictions to replace another. Like switching from from Scotch to heroin or vice versa. Or to take up cigs and coffee to replace beer.
But I dont think thats what is happening. People come to AA and NA with these lesser addictions and the program doesnt give anyone any grief about it because we need to take care of 1st things 1st. Heres a good story about it :

AA Big Book chapter 9 Here is a case in point: One of our friends is a heavy smoker and coffee drinker. There was no doubt he over- indulged. Seeing this, and meaning to be helpful, his wife commenced to admonish him about it. He admitted he was overdosing these things, but frankly said that he was not ready to stop. His wife is one of those persons who really feels there is something rather sinful about these commodities, so she nagged, and her intolerance finally threw him into a fit of anger. He got drunk.

One of our mottos is First Things First. Its not about becoming a saint, its about saving your life, at first. Later we can make progress in other areas.
After we get solid footing in the most critical/primary addiction.

[Gorgo]

I'm with you on that.

[Technosoul]

Making up your mind that you CAN walk away and not turn back,
when we become aware that something is becoming problematic for us, that our life is getting screwed up because of it, we must know how to move on, walk away.

Some things can cause physical effects when we go cold turkey, but if we know in advance what to expect, and will just say "I will deal with that temporary feeling" if it comes up, and keep walking.

The mind can play games with us, excuses seem to surface, but mostly because we have not really taken comand of our life, we must know that we do have the total power to walk away once we reach that crossroad.

Trying to stuggle with an addiction is like trying to swim out of quicksand, the struggle will only make you sink faster. You must reach for the power hold that you can use to pull your self out. Don't struggle, just walk away and know you cannot turn back.

I noted one of the reasons people have addiction in my other post above, we also have those who are into feeling guilty and then punishing their self by drugs, eating, or whatever. Give up the guilt, if those in the past really were your friends then they would forgive you anyway, if they are not your friends then why bother about their opinions, they are not really important but you are, so just start walkin and liberate your self from the past.
Now onwards is all that really matters. Nowness is the only place you can be, and the only concern is what you do in this very moment, the past and the future are not happening here and now, so be here now and stay in the moment.

That is what came from out of the Blue, hope it helps, now... if I could only take my own adivce. Ever notice how it is so easy to help others and hard to help your self by the same advice?

Technosoul.

[Lava]

learn the basics

[Technosoul]

Just learning the basics is not enough, you cannot get a full tummy by reading a cook book, you got to cook and eat also.

It is the embodyment of the right mind set that makes the difference. It is about the becoming of it, the quickening of that mind set which had fallen asleep and and become dormant.

Salvation through education is a myth. Casting off the "not you" and manifesteing the "true you" is what this is about, a radical change of mind, the awakening of reality within the mind's eye.

To Be or not to be. 99 and a half just won't do.

Technosoul.

[Lava]

You are not familiar with the subject.

[Suburbanite]

I agree.