A Dangerous Proposition

[An American 1st]

How do you figure that it is a reasonable law? Alcohol, cigarettes, and other over-the-counters are okay, but nothing else, and that's reasonable?

Again, apparently the legality and availability of bearing children in poor circumstances equals more criminals. Still not seeing the difference between this and the legality and availability of drugs equaling more criminals. I understand one choice is made by the individual and the other by the parent, but that doesn't change the outcome does it?

If you don't see that one is pre-determining a life and the other is having a standard among beings of reason who have a choice. Then you'll never see it. Pre-determining a life you are. So I guess the real point is whether you see a implanted and developing fetus as a life or not! I think that regardless of its level of development, its still a life. Just like when I was a baby that couldn't do much like I can now as a fully developed man. But it still doesn't mean I was nothing, life was just in need of progression and development.

[notthecheatr]

If you need to know my position on these issues simply read my post. You have not defaulted them. So why should I process the same exact arguments all over again to you? As to what your positions and resonings are, thats what is not known!

Actually, you have only stated the position you disagree with, and then stated that you find this proposition to be "dangerous" or "frightening." You have yet to explain why this proposition is "dangerous" or "frightening." You have made no argument, only a description.

[RhettAllen]

If you don't see that one is pre-determining a life and the other is having a standard among beings of reason who have a choice. Then you'll never see it. Pre-determining a life you are. So I guess the real point is whether you see a implanted and developing fetus as a life or not! I think that regardless of its level of development, its still a life. Just like when I was a baby that couldn't do much like I can now as a fully developed man. But it still doesn't mean I was nothing, life was just in need of progression and development.

They are BOTH pre-determining a possible future life. The only difference is to who is choosing such a path.

[DavidSupreme]

Well yeah, deep southern Asia tends to be much more religious with abrahamic faiths which again goes back to my thought that the pro-life and pro-choice debate is largely a religious and cultural one over oxytocin levels.

Well Chinese are mainly Buddhist and Taoist's so I guess you need to check the figures as that gives a nice balance to the Abrahamic religions, my ignorance is admitted on this.


What I seen is that civilized and advanced nations (secular) are pro-choice, for womans rights, against racism and so on, whiles backwards nations (highly religious people) are against abortion and womans right, racism, for oppression and hatred as well as warmongers.

Western Europe, Japan(?), Oceania etc is a good example of civilized whiles the Middle East and, in many ways, U.S an example of uncivilized still not reached the educated point of getting rid of religious power.

[minorwork]

Another propaganda in the tool bag of a pre-pick and chooser. From Crime to disease trying to gauge the unpredictable and killing as a result. Why don't you focus your efforts on abstinence and stop toying with life like its a science experiment. This falls under the category of the false promise of a disease free society.

Why don't YOU focus your efforts on PSED (Pain, Suffering, and Early Death) of your peers? I've complied. I've had a vasectomy. Does that meet with your standards of what I should focus on? Please tell me I haven't misinterpreted your instructions. Uh, oh. What's that abstinence thing? Damn. OK. I'll not have sex. Happy now? You'd make a good mine face boss. I'd do what you say though I'd probably have to tell you when I put it to you, Excellency.

Are immunizations propaganda? Toying with life? What are you a Christian Scientist? A conception is not a science experiment? What are you afraid of? Being dead or just dying? Maybe everyone should suffer and do nothing to stop it. That being the way God intends it. Bullshit. I'd bet you go to doctors who toy with your life.

I'll tell you why I will NOT stop "toying" with life. It's because of complacent do nothings that slobber over the natural order undisturbed by human endeavors. Those that can only get up when playing "God" is advocated to eliminate polio, genetic illness, and war from the memories of mankind. Those simpletons fear that man's abilities will exceed that of their God, as if imagining such foolish vanity would make it so.

[An American 1st]

I agree, that's why when I comment on a thread, I usually mention what parts may or may not be objective and subjective.

In my own threads, I try to define a few words at first so people don't get confused.

To me, it can't be about any of these subjective things. I don't need to justify abortion by the possibility of them being criminals (which I do find to be a stupid argument). A fetus simply has to have permission to be in the woman's body and as soon as a woman may find it not permissible, well that's her choice.

This is where the two of us can agree. I believe your rationale is quite accurate when you stated that defending abortion on the grounds of preventing crime doesn't make sense for the following reasons.

Any pro-choice person that makes this argument is either nonsensical themselves or is arguing such in the light of an pro-life point of view. Because if a pro-choice person does not believe they are killing anything when it comes to an implanted fetus. Then why would it matter whether it was born in a good or a bad environment? Would or wouldn't it be a life from the start is the real issue. If it is then its genocide to belive in abortion of any group. If its not then all is fair. So it really just leads us back to that main topic doesn't it? Is an implanted fetus a life?

[Eliza]

It's not a tragedy, it's biology. Get over yourself.

Try telling that to a woman who has miscarried. You are all heart and must be mighty proud of yourself.

[Cephus]

Try telling that to a woman who has miscarried. You are all heart and must be mighty proud of yourself.

No matter what someone's emotional reaction might be, it doesn't change the fact that it's biology. Intellect overrides emotion every time.

[RhettAllen]

This is where the two of us can agree. I believe your rationale is quite accurate when you stated that defending abortion on the grounds of preventing crime doesn't make sense for the following reasons.

Any pro-choice person that makes this argument is either nonsensical themselves or is arguing such in the light of an pro-life point of view. Because if a pro-choice person does not believe they are killing anything when it comes to an implanted fetus. Then why would it matter whether it was born in a good or a bad environment? Would or wouldn't it be a life from the start is the real issue. If it is then its genocide to belive in abortion of any group. If its not then all is fair. So it really just leads us back to that main topic doesn't it? Is an implanted fetus a life?

It's hard to tell how many actually believe that way though... I would imagine the use of this argument is to show inconsistency in your own argument.

Using statistics to prevent activities based on the perceived notion of future criminal or epidemic incidence is far too authoritarian. This includes this particular topic, drug use, laws targeting AIDS among gays, laws targeting muslims at airports, laws targeting fake child pornography among pedophiles, laws targeting black youth in urban areas, laws targeting political philosophies, etc...

Your inconsistency in this area gives me the inability to defend you in this case.

[An American 1st]

It's hard to tell how many actually believe that way though... I would imagine the use of this argument is to show inconsistency in your own argument.

Using statistics to prevent activities based on the perceived notion of future criminal or epidemic incidence is far too authoritarian. This includes this particular topic, drug use, laws targeting AIDS among gays, laws targeting muslims at airports, laws targeting fake child pornography among pedophiles, laws targeting black youth in urban areas, laws targeting political philosophies, etc...

Your inconsistency in this area gives me the inability to defend you in this case.

Well I believe that though I have not exhuasted every possible discussion, I have made many valid points. And I wasn't expecting a defense or anything as such. I know you're on the opposite end of this argument in general. I had Come to the realization that it is foolishness to believe you are not killing anything when it comes to an implanted fetus and then ignorantly propagate it as a possible criminal. And then argue it to someone pro-life thinking they will except killing of a life that has done no wrong. As if to put some psychological wager on life which still is neither a fair or acceptable thing to the pro-life crowd.

Why believe abortion is right but then hide it behind fear and other mess? If abortion is right it shouldn't matter whether you are aborting a rich persons fetus or a poor persons. Because to the pro-choice no wrong has been commited. But to the pro-life a wrong has. So the whole notion is Non-sensical!!!

[Charlatan]

The iuployment stands at ten percent for every country. This means thatone in ten people will be unemployed, maybe two will be criminals, one policeperson, three corporate persons and maybe three in industry and then the rest in other jobs. The point remains that for every criminal born there is a police person born, yes?

Now, when it comes to abortion you need to understand that it is not wrong nor right to abort, it is a choice. If you count all your sperms and eggs getting wasted each month, then there are a lot more children. If you think of a baby that is capable of feeling things being harmed, then that is wrong. If you were to think of murder as if it were when you kill someone that is living, is that wrong?

When it comes to society people feel it is wrong to abort off the bat. This is reflex. That means it is anti societal and wrong - to abort. Doing something wrong for a good reason is still wrong.

[An American 1st]

The iuployment stands at ten percent for every country. This means thatone in ten people will be unemployed, maybe two will be criminals, one policeperson, three corporate persons and maybe three in industry and then the rest in other jobs. The point remains that for every criminal born there is a police person born, yes?

Now, when it comes to abortion you need to understand that it is not wrong nor right to abort, it is a choice. If you count all your sperms and eggs getting wasted each month, then there are a lot more children. If you think of a baby that is capable of feeling things being harmed, then that is wrong. If you were to think of murder as if it were when you kill someone that is living, is that wrong?

When it comes to society people feel it is wrong to abort off the bat. This is reflex. That means it is anti societal and wrong - to abort. Doing something wrong for a good reason is still wrong.

"Its neither wrong nor right to abort"

Well that depends on who you are talking to. Are you the Universal standard dictionary to declare such a thing? And I think deciding when its a viable life is the real discussion! Otherwise you win and confusion and fightings still persist. Maybe some on your end prefer that.