Atheists claim they don't believe in a superior deity as there isn't any evidence for one. This is a positive claim, and is not supported by any hard evidence. Therefore the atheist is a hypocrite to claim such an appreciation of evidence when at the same time offer none of his own.
Moreover, they are hypocrites in that they usually preach rationality and scientific fact, when following these in an intellectually honest fashion could only lead one to theism.
"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice." -Proverbs 12:15
How does one offer hard evidence for the non-existence of an imaginary being and the mythologies that have been fashioned around it? Furthermore, it doesn't matter what rationale is presented to argue that deities are imaginary because those who believe them keep moving the goal post as science and empirical evidence show dogma to be ridiculous.Quote by: proverbs12_15
You're claiming their is hard evidence for a "superior deity". And, it would be? And for which "superior deity" or deities? For the record, quoting the Bible is not hard evidence.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd - Voltaire
False premises, I'll address later.
Yet another false premise, that one is committed to believing in "mythologies" when believing in God. As far as Christianity is concerned, one only needs to believe that Jesus is the son of God and died for our sins. You don't need to engage in the "religion" part of it. I can elaborate on this concept if need be.
The evidence consists of 5 arguments that are a bit lengthy, but they can be smushed.
I. Cosmological Argument
a) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
b) The universe began to exist
c) Therefore, it has a cause
II. Fine-Tuning Argument
-demonstrates a myriad of mathematical constants (independent of the laws of nature) that fall into an extraordinarily narrow range of life-permitting values.
III. Moral Argument
a) If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
b) Objective moral values do exist.
c) Therefore, God exists.
IV. Case for Christ
a) Jesus was seen by 500+ people after his 'death' (these included believers, skeptics, and even enemies of Jesus)
b) Various simple refutations to common objections......
V. Experience of God
This is not evidence, but as William Lane Craig calls it, a properly basic belief; such as the belief in the reality of the outside world, the existence of the past, and the presence of other minds. Essentially, one can feel God in his own heart.
"The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, but a wise man listens to advice." -Proverbs 12:15
No, it is absolutely not. A positive claim would be "I do believe in a superior deity".This is a positive claim,
Because the burden of proof is on those who do make the positive claim that a deity exists.and is not supported by any hard evidence.
Your whole thread is based on one embarrassingly basic ontological failure.Therefore the atheist is a hypocrite
Most atheists are really just saying that after being intellectually honest when evaluating religions they cannot possibly subscribe to any of those ridiculous, baseless, hypocritical, and contradictory texts. After that what are the chances of a god being the creator of the universe? Well based on the evidence that is as likely as a supernatural gigloshnark just poopin it out and moving on. With the many seemingly random events and a complete lack of evidence of anything supernatural it is probably safest to just assume that as we are such a small part of the universe that the universe is an equally small(or smaller) part of overall creation and so is not that amazing(though it seems) and we are eternally cut off from this larger creation and will never know about it in the slightest. Basically atheism is a kneejerk reaction to theism cus its ridiculous.
What caused god? Why can't there be some nonintelligent cause of the universe outside of time, being that time is a characteristic of our universe and anything outside our universe would be outside of time, or "timeless" as we know it?I. Cosmological Argument
a) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
b) The universe began to exist
c) Therefore, it has a cause
If there are an infinite number of universes then eventually one would get it right.II. Fine-Tuning Argument
-demonstrates a myriad of mathematical constants (independent of the laws of nature) that fall into an extraordinarily narrow range of life-permitting values.
Objective morals as you mean them do not exist. There is no universal moral code and the universe certainly does not show the slightest bit of morallity nor does god.III. Moral Argument
a) If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
b) Objective moral values do exist.
c) Therefore, God exists.
How many people have "seen" little grey men from the stars?IV. Case for Christ
a) Jesus was seen by 500+ people after his 'death' (these included believers, skeptics, and even enemies of Jesus)
b) Various simple refutations to common objections......
I have experienced more on drugs than anyone has in church. Even those guys speaking in tongues. How do you explain my internal, wholly unbidden revoltion at the whole concept of heaven and hell and the injustice it brings for everyone involved, no matter how good or "evil?" What do you think the devil says to those poor souls who died without ever hearing the name of christ? "Yeah He's kinda a douchebag like that."V. Experience of God
This is not evidence, but as William Lane Craig calls it, a properly basic belief; such as the belief in the reality of the outside world, the existence of the past, and the presence of other minds. Essentially, one can feel God in his own heart.
Someday a theist is going to come along and present an argument in favor of their god that hasn't been trotted out, and debunked, many times before just in this forum alone. But until that day comes, I guess we'll have to keep refuting these tired old cliches with the same counter-arguments.I. Cosmological Argument
a) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
b) The universe began to exist
c) Therefore, it has a cause
II. Fine-Tuning Argument
-demonstrates a myriad of mathematical constants (independent of the laws of nature) that fall into an extraordinarily narrow range of life-permitting values.
III. Moral Argument
a) If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
b) Objective moral values do exist.
c) Therefore, God exists.
IV. Case for Christ
a) Jesus was seen by 500+ people after his 'death' (these included believers, skeptics, and even enemies of Jesus)
b) Various simple refutations to common objections......
V. Experience of God
This is not evidence, but as William Lane Craig calls it, a properly basic belief; such as the belief in the reality of the outside world, the existence of the past, and the presence of other minds. Essentially, one can feel God in his own heart.
1) Cosmological Argument
"Whatever begins to exist has a cause" Then when, where and how did your god begin?
2) Fine-Tuning Argument
"...an extraordinarily narrow range of life-permitting values". All it takes is one planet with just the right conditions for life to arise, one chance in however many possibilities. Life evolved to fit the conditions already in existence on the planet, not the other way around. No god ever created an animal 5000' tall. Why not? No holy book explains why none exist, but evolution does.
3) Moral Argument
"Objective moral values do exist." Prove it. Show me a moral value that transcends humanity and is absolute. Produce a moral value that is universal. Explain how slavery among Christians went from being morally acceptable to morally unacceptable.
4) Case for Christ
"Jesus was seen by 500+ people after his 'death' (these included believers, skeptics, and even enemies of Jesus)". According to a single volume of writings uncorroborated by other contemporary writers, of questionable origin and dubious authorship. There's a reason religious belief is based on faith, primarily the lack of objective evidence to support its claims. And finally, popularity does not confer validity.
5) Experience of God
"This is not evidence..." Amen. So why even present it as such? Experiences, especially emotionally charged ones, can be easily misinterpreted, especially by those who lack an understanding of how the brain functions.
Seriously, aren't there any better arguments in support of belief?
The Forum Rules
Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
[John F. Kennedy]
The principal value of debate lies in the development of logical thought processes, and the ability to articulate your positions publicly.
[Senator Dick Clark of Iowa]
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
[Terry Pratchett]
Why aren't religious people hypocrites? You guys believe the opposite of we do so that makes it correct? I think not.
"The universe is a strange and wondrous place. The truth is quite odd enough to need no help from pseudoscientific charlatans."
Richard Dawkins
Why Evolution is True
Radical Atheist
Wait, so claiming that there exists no hard evidence is itself required to possess hard evidence? I think you need to have hard evidence that hard evidence is required to claim that hard evidence does not exist.Atheists claim they don't believe in a superior deity as there isn't any evidence for one. This is a positive claim, and is not supported by any hard evidence.
Nonsensical argument is nonsensical. Go pray to your myth book.
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane
b is a faulty premise, and c does not logically entail God.I. Cosmological Argument
a) Whatever begins to exist has a cause
b) The universe began to exist
c) Therefore, it has a cause
This presumes that life only exists within that narrow range of life-permitting values. It's life as we know it. As the puddle said of the hole, "What a marvelous hole to fit my form precisely!"II. Fine-Tuning Argument
-demonstrates a myriad of mathematical constants (independent of the laws of nature) that fall into an extraordinarily narrow range of life-permitting values.
Premise b is absolutely unsupported. Furthermore, a is a non-sequitor -- God no more adds objective morality than does my own moral code, because God is not known to be perfect, nor the arbiter of morality.III. Moral Argument
a) If God does not exist, objective moral values do not exist.
b) Objective moral values do exist.
c) Therefore, God exists.
Without, of course, a shred of contemporary evidence in the annals of Rome (a society known for its record keeping). If the Son of God came to Earth showering his people with miracles, Rome would've cataloged it.IV. Case for Christ
a) Jesus was seen by 500+ people after his 'death' (these included believers, skeptics, and even enemies of Jesus)
b) Various simple refutations to common objections......
This is simply human superstition at work. Easterners tend to call it "oneness with the universe". It's a common feeling for the religious. And like you mention, it is hardly evidence in and of itself, any more than the drive for warfare, conquest, greed, and butchery at the expense of others for the benefit of oneself constitutes evidence for the morality of Genghis Khan and ilk.V. Experience of God
This is not evidence, but as William Lane Craig calls it, a properly basic belief; such as the belief in the reality of the outside world, the existence of the past, and the presence of other minds. Essentially, one can feel God in his own heart.
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane
I like the moral argument. If an atheist is willing to concede which they normally aren't.
This does carry weight.
Haven't made up my mind yet.
Hah! Offeror, first you have to agree on which set of so-called "objective morals" really do exist and which ones weren't just products of your epileptic, wife-beating prophet's overactive imagination.
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
A sense of obligation."
-- Stephen Crane
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks