Jewish question.

[rorystokes]

since humans began lighting fires there has never been such a bunch of whinging, whining bunch of politicians than the israelis

I am not anti-semetic - I am Irish, you dont have monopaly on hurt

Everyone that lives outside your country learns geography in school
They are taught the countries & maps & each country & how they were founded and where they are today

History class's across europe also shows a country that is expanding as fast as sharons waistline

So either israel is right or evrybody else is wrong
I'm not anti-semetic or anything like it - I just have a pet hate for bullshit

[Suburbanite]

Originally posted by nick, a blond blue- eyed german, swede, anglo, or anything would be preferrable to a high pitched , whining, and forever complaining unattractive ugly jew. six million during the second world war??? we can only wish.

Weak and uncalled for.

[crayola]

Would it be possible to discuss the actual where and why of all the "anti-semitism" in its beginning?

"Certain of the Jews" is a biblical expression noting those Jews who were the body called "anti-Christ". The form of the body was Jewish and against the claims and declarations of Jesus. The disciples taught anti-semitism and referenced it as from the OT stories. How this anti-semitism began is seen in the divided kingdoms of Judah and Israel. But moreso is seen in how the priesthood of Levites rose up against the Jews in days of Herod and claimed they were "Gods chosen people" out of all the tribes of Israel.

This infighting among the sons of Jacob-Israel began when Moses selectively chose the Levites as priests, and this "elete" body of men were "anointed" and thus the body of "Christ", meaning anointed as priests became the chosen people, for the priesthood.

The kingdom of Jesus Christ was that Levitical heritage in Judah. and of which he "raised up" his kingdom to claim their rightful place in Israel. The covenant of priesthood was made with Levi as stated in book of Malachi.

What then of the Anti-Christ Jews? They remained as they were, not believing Jesus as the anointed priest.

Were all Jews anti-Christ? No, for some believed and followed Jesus instead of following Pharisees.

Two bodies of people were in the nation of Israel. One was anti-Christ and one was anti-Jewish. (anti-semitic)

The body of Christ (anointed men) were those men of Levi which accused the body of Judah(Jews) of being liars and theives. Here's the beginning source of "anti-semitism". It started among the tribal sons of Jacob and continued through the days of Jesus ministry.

The body of people which were raised from the dead is seen in that body of anointed priests . Matthew 11:5 - "Go tell John again those things you hear and see; "The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, THE DEAD ARE RAISED UP, and the poor have the gospel preached to them."

The resurrection was accomplished while Jesus was still alive and was defined in how the anointed priesthood was again exalted as "Gods chosen people" out of all the tribes of Israel.

"Dead" in this essence had its definition in ignorance. The Levites evidently did not know they were the chosen people which were elected by Moses to sit in his seat as priests forever. How did the Judah tribe (Jews) take the throne at Jerusalem from Levitical control? Ezekiel points to jealousy and envy as the reason for Jews casting the Levites from them, ( 11:14-19)

So how did all this "anti-semitic" crap end up in the lap of the world?

[Suburbanite]

If your argument against Jews is that they are not Christians than you don't have an argument at all. From what I can tell though you’re already too far mentally dissolved in your fiction for recovery. All I can insist you do is realize you’re insane and keep your fantasies of Christ to yourself.

[crayola]

My argument would be origin of anti-semitism. "It's in the bible".

Jews of Judah tribe were not of tribe in Levi. Tribe of Levi established that body of men called "Christ" meaning anointed priests in Israel.

"Israel" defined sons of Jacob in their 12 tribes.

Division of kingdoms in Reoboam and Jeroboam instituted "anti-semitism" in its origin.

"Anti-Semitism" and "Anti-Christ" peoples belong to Israel, not applicable to the world outside Israel. The hatred among those people in their own nation concerning themselves against each other is what the origin of anti-semitism is all about.

"fantasies of Christ" ?
"realize you're insane"?

Try to present your argument against what I have said.

[Suburbanite]

What can I say? There are tons of theories on the source of anti-Semitism. Some say it has to do with how isolationist Israel was. Others think it has to do with Muslim resentment of Jews. Some think it has to do with Rome. Others with Europe.

Hell, it has to do with hypocrisy.

Do not try to have it both ways. Do not cry about how we are all the same and then turn around and cry about how different, special, or unique your particular group is.

"B'nai Brith targets abuse at universities" Ottawa Citizen Online Nov. 5 2004

-"We're looking at universities across the country where Jewish students do face an atmosphere of hostility," said B'nai Brith executive vicepresident Frank Dimant (right). "We believe (the Jewish students) are guaranteed rights and privileges, according to the Charter (of Rights and Freedoms), and that those should be upheld for them."-

Nov. 6 2004

"Threat to sue Concordia makes Jews sound 'like complainers'"

The crime?

-"It cited Concordia's decision last month not to accede to the Hillel student group's request that former Israeli prime minister (and terrorist) [comment added] Ehud Barak be invited to speak at the university."-

Also,

-Denouncing B'nai Brith's action as "very destructive," Jeff Boro said it feeds perception that Jews are never satisfied.

"In most people's minds, it's 'There's the (Jewish) community complaining again. They're not getting their way, so they're going to sue'," Mr. Boro said.-


Even the Jewish group protesting this nonsense is locked in group think. No one was quoted as blaming all jews for b'nai brith's actions, but in their mind all jews are linked.

Who cares? We are individuals.

[Suburbanite]

It happens that way with all non-WASPs. That is the way of the Westernized world. It happens to Black people, Latinos, Catholics, homosexuals, asians, etc. Jews are the most threatening because they are the hardest to tell apart.

[Suburbanite]

double post

Yeah, no one forces them to wear religious medallions, put jewish symbols on their homes, or wear the black clothes. It is like the attractive woman that complains about people staring at her while wearing a miniskirt and a low-cut dress. The minute you call them 'jew,' even in a complimentary manner, they freak out.

There was a midget (dwarf?) on the Amazing Race. She became emotional and said she ws trying to show what little people could do. Of course, she had no problem using her deformity to fake an illness in an attempt to get transportation tickets.

[Suburbanite]

I don't understand the problem in not liking to be generalized? The girl is in error because it is stupid to assume people won’t notice something like that. The problem Jews have is not people looking at them when they have a Yakima on or Hasidic clothing, it is the assumptions that come with it that worry Jews. There is no way to call someone a Jew in a complimentary manner either; it is either as an identifier or as an insult.

Oh, I guess there is a reputation for intelligence and humor.

The hypocrisy is the point. Many jews identify themselves as jews. No problem there. You, if you are a non-jew, are an antisemite if you say 'jew.' We had a black member of our platoon that would pull the 'we' card. Black people this, black people that. If you said 'you people' or 'yall,' you were a virtual member of the KKK.

[Suburbanite]

Association gives a sense of pride, generalization a sense of judgment; it makes sense to me entirely.
You can’t expect people to exist logically. Though I have to say, once again there is a slight confusion. Saying “we” implies that he is a part of a group of people. Saying “your people” makes him a representative of the “we” which no one wants to be.

[Melvyn]

Originally posted by Inquisitor, I understand that most of you have no doubt whatsoever that one cannot generalise about a whole race/ethnicity. Especially when it comes to jews. And I agree. I am far from saying that every single jew is personification of evil. In fact I have friends who are jews. Yet whenever a word jew is said, a word anti-semite comes to mind. Why is this so? Why is it that in any country where jews would take residence, anti semitism woould follow? Why it has been the case for thousands of years? If anti-semitism is without merit, a mere superstition and bigotry ( see I even use the words you understand :) ) then it follows that there is something wrong with ALL the nations in the world. Can it be true? Or perhaps there is something wrong with ONE nation? The evidence points that the latter is correct. So what is it about jews?

As a Jew, I have a theory about anti-semitism. It has to do with human nature. If you watch children, there are always some bullies and they often have many followers. There are always some in any group of children who are regularly vitimized by bullies. They are the smallest or weakest the obivious victims bully, because bullies only exist because they can. It is the same with adults and nations and peoples within nations.

Periodically many nations look internally for victims. The existance of the potential victim is used to explain the failure of the society to prosper and to dreirect public energy away from failed leadership. This was certainly the case of Jews in Nazi Germany, It is the case in Darfur, the Sudan with the black population. That the U.S. has been a successful society is the reason that thought there has always been some anit-semitism we have never been in real danger here.

The smallest group on the planet has always been the Jews. We have been available so we were victimized. It doesn't help that we apparently found confrontation and viooence repulsive, for bullies are always those who enjoy violence.

I present my view not to you, inquisitorj, for you are obviously a bully and an enemy. I present it to the host of responders whom you have stimulated. My theory is easily proven. You would, in company, not dare denigrate another race or ethinc group out of fear for your life. But you and those like you would up until recently spout off your bile against Jews.

Beware, we have learned to attack our enemies and don't look much like victims anymore. Some would say our violence is now over the top, but we are safer than we have ever been from those who have theories about the "Jewish Question"

Melvyn Polatchek

[Melvyn]

Originally posted by Section 8, IYou seem to forget that your very faith was made possible through ethical monotheism, a Jewish idea. As a people, we also established the first laws, and contributed greatly to modern law and government. Jewish individuals have also made amazing strides in the arts and science. Until you have any facts backed up by a credible source, I'm going to have to disregard your post as an anti-semetic rant.

As Jews, the one thing we are never required to do as is to justify our our existance when attacked and make no mistake, this was an attack.. All human beings should be respected no matter the achievementents of thier particular group. One of the traditional reasons we can be attacked is that in the face of an obvious provocation we try reason and to justify our existance by reference to our good works. I admire your attempt, but he is laughing at you, as Arafat must have laughed at Barak as he let loose the intifada in the face of a reasonable attempt at accomodation.

There is no possibility that the inquisitor will be willing to allow us to live in peace if we explain what valuable human beings we are. The only thing individuals like him need to be made to understand is that if they slap us they will be slapped back twice as hard. Then we can live with the same level of security as any other people, which is the security of the willingness of self-defense..

Melvyn - Blogging at http://radio.weblogs.com/0137954/

[Nono]

The point about bullydom is a good one. There's also the apparent need in homo sapiens society to find a scapegoat, a role the Jews have filled in Europe, as the Chinese have in Southeast Asia.

Originally posted by Melvyn That the U.S. has been a successful society is the reason that thought there has always been some anit-semitism we have never been in real danger here.

Quite a bit, actually. Remember the SS St. Louis.

Melvyn,

Also, having a different religion is a bonus for those wanting a scapegoat. Who really knows the strange, bizarre, and macabre (booga, booga) rituals of the jews? I have heard some outlandish things from supposed researchers. I would guess that they do not actually know any jews. I had a jewish sergeant. I had better conversations with him regarding religion than people that shared my religion.

Size alone....probably not. You need something to show that the group is DIFFERENT. 'Different' is always bad.

Melvyn, are you in Israel or an American member of the JDL? Just curious, you gave some stiff posts. I figure you are closer to some actual conflict than an average jew might be.

[Melvyn]

Originally posted by StoneWT, Melvyn, Size alone....probably not. You need something to show that the group is DIFFERENT. 'Different' is always bad. Melvyn, are you in Israel or an American member of the JDL? Just curious, you gave some stiff posts. I figure you are closer to some actual conflict than an average jew might be.

We are different, in that every group is different. Every group has its specific heritage. We don't believe Jesus Christ is God. Certainly you can add in resentment over that fact.

I am an American Jew. I am not close in to any particular conflict. But I know when I have been slapped in the face and I don't think that a so-called "civilized" response is any response at all.

No one who values his/her own life would sit in a room full of Italians or Irish or Orientals or Muslims or African-Americans and discuss the "Question" and attempt to find fault with one of those groups for their own oppression. But of course on the internet one is relatively safe. A bigot can safely start a conversation, insulting to a whole ethnic group in relative safety. All I can do is hurl back the insult.

During the holocaust, Jews were dragged from their homes. Most did not resist because they could not believe what was happening to them. We have an expression. "Never again".

Melvyn - Blogging at http://radio.weblogs.com/0137954/

[crayola]

"Most did not resist because they could not believe what was happening to them."

I remember seeing films of the train stations where Jews were boarding to travel to the death camps, but not knowing it at that time. The soldiers were standing around with guns straped on their shoulders etc., but didn't look as if Jews were prisoners. What was the excuse used that lured those Jewish people, especially the mothers of children to trust Hitler ? This is what people cannot understand even to this day. Why all the trust ? What "misinformation" was being fed to the Jewish communities in Germany? Does any thing remain such as flyers, news articles, or was the press silenced by Hitler?

[Suburbanite]

They did not know they were being sent to death camps in the beginning. They were however being forced onto those trains, for what they thought, was either deportation or a ghetto.
And what kind of flyers are you looking for? Ones of Hitler’s propaganda?