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Vee · Oct 7, 2004, 02:39 am

if not, why do many consider him evil?

castille · Oct 7, 2004, 10:47 pm

I've read a few of his works, including that famous The Prince, a few of his minor discourses, and a few of his plays. I'd have to say no, he wasn't "evil" in any sense.

Strangely most people assume Machiavelli to be evil. The Church even labelled him as the son of Satan. Often its due to an ignorance of Machiavelli's works, and even stems on the fact people do possess a 'Machiavellian' streak, and their denial of that fact leads them to curse Machiavelli (people often hate other people for the qualities they hate about themselves).

The reality is that Machiavelli simply observed, and wrote down his observations, of politics and human psychology. I would use the word "pragmatic" rather than evil. Machiavelli suggests that deception, for example, is a necessity for survival, and it should be used against those who decieve.

bishop · Oct 7, 2004, 11:59 pm

i agree.. i've read all his works minus the art of war. machiavelli is definitely no utopian, but he isn't "evil".. he's a realist and a practioner of realpolitik. whether you like him or not, the man really knew what he was talking about..

also, you have to keep in mind the time in which he lived, and who his intended audience was - he wrote political philosophy (strategy) for kings competing against other kings for power.

Suburbanite · Oct 9, 2004, 06:01 am

C'mon castille if you believe in Jesus Christ, than clearly Mach is evil by several means. If you're not that blinded by the light, then no evil retains no real value to an unsuccessful man, speaking on a teleological level here.
It is weird to see this posted, I just read The Prince and have an essay to write about it comparing him to Benjamin Franklin.

Oct 7, 2004, 02:39 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
Vee Igneous Magma Posts: 353	if not, why do many consider him evil? Australian Parliamentary Simulator Aussies: Welcome to the Rudd Regime Yanks: Welcome to Hell Now Purgatory. Others: G'day mate.

Oct 7, 2004, 10:47 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	I've read a few of his works, including that famous The Prince, a few of his minor discourses, and a few of his plays. I'd have to say no, he wasn't "evil" in any sense. Strangely most people assume Machiavelli to be evil. The Church even labelled him as the son of Satan. Often its due to an ignorance of Machiavelli's works, and even stems on the fact people do possess a 'Machiavellian' streak, and their denial of that fact leads them to curse Machiavelli (people often hate other people for the qualities they hate about themselves). The reality is that Machiavelli simply observed, and wrote down his observations, of politics and human psychology. I would use the word "pragmatic" rather than evil. Machiavelli suggests that deception, for example, is a necessity for survival, and it should be used against those who decieve. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Oct 7, 2004, 11:59 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	i agree.. i've read all his works minus the art of war. machiavelli is definitely no utopian, but he isn't "evil".. he's a realist and a practioner of realpolitik. whether you like him or not, the man really knew what he was talking about.. also, you have to keep in mind the time in which he lived, and who his intended audience was - he wrote political philosophy (strategy) for kings competing against other kings for power. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Oct 9, 2004, 06:01 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Suburbanite BANNED Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,203	C'mon castille if you believe in Jesus Christ, than clearly Mach is evil by several means. If you're not that blinded by the light, then no evil retains no real value to an unsuccessful man, speaking on a teleological level here. It is weird to see this posted, I just read The Prince and have an essay to write about it comparing him to Benjamin Franklin.