Supernatural religion and dishonesty....

[Gorgo]

Everyone is delusional to some extent. Science at least attempts to look for its faults.

[SlySpy]

Quote by: MerlinsByte Many scientists are not only delusional but in outright obvious denial. Explanation: History my dear fellows, history of science and religion. How many science falsehoods and frauds have been required learning, then indoctrinated into our minds and the minds of our children?Guesses masquerading as theory, or worse as a virtual omniscient (the science god) fact taught as a world veiw. One fraud is too many.One lie is too many. Religion should be an example for science! It doesn't change, compared to science. A Christian of 500 years ago wouldn't be disenfranchised today. And his facts would be nearly the same as a Christian of today. Then put scientist on stage with an audience of his contemporary peers. Apllow him to espouse his "Facts." Oh sir! the earth is in the center of the solar system! And stars are actually embedded in crystalline spears! no doubt about it it is the new theroy of science! 500 years from now Stephen Hawking and his ilk with their facts will be a quaint memory. Christians and other major religions will still around believing the truth, musing about how silly we were. Who is deluding whom? MB

Science changes because of the acceptance that at any given moment we do not have absolute knowledge of the way the world works. As our tools and methods become better the explanations that science offers become more and more accurate in accordance to observation. Modern science is self-correcting. Also, don't forget that all of early science was heavily influenced by religion.
Religion, on the other hand, claims to know the absolute truth, which is interesting considering that there is more than one religion claiming to be the correct one.

As well, although religious scripture may not change, interpretation and practice of it does.

[MerlinsByte]

Quote by: Gorgo Everyone is delusional to some extent. Science at least attempts to look for its faults.

Merlin replies.....yes I agree with that. I love science. My hobby is astronomy, and its a serious hobby. Yes, I enjoy science and believe that science and religion will merge one day. I just don't like the rabid types that should be wearing brown shirts and swastikas. Psst...that includes the foamer at the pulpit or the person(s) that aspire(s) to sit in newons chair

mb

[Starboy]

Quote by: Dadoo It is interesting that most ethical and moral behaviours, such as honesty, are dictated and enforced through religion. The religious, it would seem are critical of others' honesty; hence, commandments and holy laws.

It is a claim of supernatural religion that it is the source of ethical and moral behaviors. But so what? Supernatural religion claims to be the source of everything. If you follow that link

The Economics of fair play

You will find that there are other explanations for our social behavior.

Religion, I have heard said, is a lie itself. We could expect dishonesty from religious people, for whatever reason and regardless of intention. I also understand the point StarBoy. Is this social commentary, condemnation or a warning?

Take it any way you like. But at a minimum it is a warning.

Starboy

[jeffl]

Quote by: Starboy Unless god gave you the bible itself all you can say is that you have this bible that you got from a book store that is alleged to be the history of a "supernatural" event that you have read and studied and consider to be significant.

This is what i'm saying. And then i ask if there is any way that this 'supernatural' event could actually have been 'natural.' And low and behold, there is; i'm gonna say it... it's a 'quantum' thing:). Now, here it only has to be plausable for the participants to have to respect each other; which is to say, for the different perspectives to be given a fair shake.

One thing that seems pretty clear to me is that one should not associate 'religion' with 'falsehood' generally. I understand that now there may be good reason to do so for a time, though i myself don't see it as valid; but i have a feeling that the notions of 'truth' and 'religion' started together, and for the sake of sanity they should be allowed to approach each other.

[MerlinsByte]

Quote by: SlySpy Science changes because of the acceptance that at any given moment we do not have absolute knowledge of the way the world works. As our tools and methods become better the explanations that science offers become more and more accurate in accordance to observation. Modern science is self-correcting. Also, don't forget that all of early science was heavily influenced by religion. Religion, on the other hand, claims to know the absolute truth, which is interesting considering that there is more than one religion claiming to be the correct one. As well, although religious scripture may not change, interpretation and practice of it does.

Merlin replies...Yes you make good points SlySpy.At times I may seem anti science. That is not the case.

I have problems with science accusing religion of certain flaws, for example DISHONESTY. Science is grossly guilty (and convicted) of misdirection as well as lies by omission.Fraud is common too. Science uses intimidation, lies and fraud to buttress shaky theories!

The modus operandi of science is to destroy all ideas doesn’t follow the current scientific theory, or the sacred science cow of the day. This rigid authoritarian dictatorship must be dismantled, or at least become open to other ideas.

Science MUST have room to expand beyond artificial boundaries set forth by the mainstream scientific establishment. True science can incorporate art, religious thought, and pure facts (mathematics etc). Fear quashes everything , destroys all good things including science. In my opinion, we are already entering a stagnant phase of science, and are in general intellectual decline, especially in the west, not because of religion , but for apathy. Science needs more options not less.




Yes that’s the end.

[Gorgo]

Some scientists (as all people are) are guilty of dishonesty and dogmatism. Science itself, is self-correcting. Mainstream religions change or they would die, but not because of any kind of search for facts. Rather as an attempt to get the butts in the pews.

[Starboy]

Quote by: MerlinsByte Merlin replies...Yes you make good points SlySpy.At times I may seem anti science. That is not the case.

I agree. You don't know enough about science to be anti-science. Your bullshit in one of your other threads regarding your knowledge of quantum mechanics is ample evidence. You lacked the honesty to admit that you didn't know shit when it came to QM and yet you blundered on like a lying sack of shit. Who the hell cares what you think about anything? Your dishonesty has already been established.

Starboy

[Rod]

ok, starboy somewhat of a late responce but Im here.

Basicly now all you have to say for yourself are crazy things like "He said many crazy things" but you see you are loosing the debate and really cannot think of anything productive to responde to me basicly I´ve found articles on all the people you once thought they were atheist, All i have to rely on is the articles because neither you nor me met them personaly, so upon that fact, you cannot object that those articles are either flase because you and me know it, when you play with fire, you´ll be burned.

and btw .. I have Galileo Galilei aswell, I would fetch the article for you but im on vacation, feel free to think your responce, Ill be online in a few more days.

[Starboy]

Rod, for every "writing" that you find that says they are one thing I am sure I can find one that says they are not. You better be careful because if I find writings that indicate they are not what you say they are then you will have to explain it and you may find yourself in yet another lie. I dare you to find a quote from Einstein to the effect of "Jesus doesn't play dice with the universe, or Jesus does or doesn't do this or that". You will find that he was not what you have been told he is. But be that as it may, this is about supernaturalists and their basic dishonestly. It is about your dishonesty. Fact is Rod, you don't know shit about Einstein. There is no reason for you to claim that you do, but for some stupid and dishonest reason you are compelled to do so. You ought to think on that long and hard.

Starboy

[Sean]

Do not respond to this warning within this post as it will turn into more of a distraction

The insults need to stop. I am being easy-going with this topic because I think there are some good points within, but the insults need to stop! Do not continue to ignore my warnings. You can always call someone an idiot by saying "I don't think you know what you're talking about...here's why: source, point, debate, etc". That is how it will be done here.

If you want to respond to this send me a private message, or respond to your split thread that I made from this: Starboy's derail: Supernatural religion and dishonesty (Split Topic)

I really hope you head my advice; I really want to let you continue to debate here.

-Sean

Back to the debate

[Starboy]

wrong thread.