The Holocaust!

[Compugasm]

This is weird, while looking through Google image search, I came across this picture:



Looks like Hitler huh? The text on the page is all in French, but his name is Omer Létourneau. Born in/from Québec, and lived from March 13 1891 -> August 14 1983. He was an "Organiste, pianiste, compositeur, marchand de musique, éditeur, professeur" I think they left off "dictator" from that list.

[kellbing]

Wow. The hatred on this board just shows me how much more loving we Atheists are than many so-called Christians. I don't hate anyone for their religious beliefs. It is sickening how many people have been tortured and slaughtered in the name of "God".

So very sad.

[Waychel]

RickSp: Inquisitor has already begun to post on this board regarding topics of no relevance to the holocaust, Jews or religion. I fail to see why his views on these subjects should impact ones consideration of his views on these other, entirely dissimilar topics.

kellbing: I'm Atheist and I would say that, after being in the company of Atheists both online and offline, that they can be just as hateful and elitist (if not moreso) as some Monotheists. Before you sanctimoniously attack the collective establishments of religion the world over for the atrocities of a few, I think that you should take a look at how similar the advocation of Atheism has become for the people of China. I also believe that you are selling short all of the philanthropic causes that charities the world over have contributed to as a result of the role religion plays in appealing to the compassion of others.

The fact of the matter is that whatever your philosophy of life, religion (or non-religion) are concepts of individual following and perception. This, coupled with our own egotism, makes us extremely intolerant of those with such personal views that waver from our own. Our intolerance for one another -- not our philosophies themselves -- is the primary motivating factor of genocide, torture and war. Religion is no more a direct cause than it is a boundary; our nature is the only thing to really blame. At least, that is my opinion.

[Nono]

Originally posted by kellbing The hatred on this board just shows me how much more loving we Atheists are than many so-called Christians. I don't hate anyone for their religious beliefs. It is sickening how many people have been tortured and slaughtered in the name of "God".

Good points, but jumbled together. "Religion" -- ritual and tribalism prescribed by the clerics, as opposed to individual spirituality -- is the all-time pretext for murder, as well as for land-grabs, financial rip-offs and other dastardliness.

But the Nazis didn't waste their time with religion. Nor do most anti-Semites, I'd say. To them, being Jewish is a question of genes, not religion. Conversion to a safe religion didn't cut any ice with the Nazis -- you ended up in Auschwitz anyway.

As for aetheism, what is it but a refusal to believe in a deity? To me that requires a certain degree of blind faith. Given the widespread abuse of religion I can understand this. But somehow I have faith in aetheists -- well, a lot of them -- to find other reasons for hate.

[Inquisitor]

Regarding the inquisitor's statement. Please provide evidence regarding Jews being MORE likely to be evil than ANY other etnicity on this planet.

I have already done so. I am sorry if you unable to see it.

They then list the proportions of various ethnic groups in the Soviet secret police: Jews: 39 % Russians and Ukrainians 36 % Latvians, Germans, Poles 14% Others 12% This is particularly significant since the Jews made up only 1% of the Russian population!"

Now, for those of you who don't know. Being a member of Soviet Secret Police, was a career choice to torture and execute innocent people. Therefore by definition these people were evil. If jews are 39 times more likely to be represented among this group it's a good indication of their psychological pathology.

I didn't see any of your evidence for the Jews being the basis of the Russian Mob, but maybe that reference was ill-chosen. Let's take the Italian Mafia. Do the Italians all get labeled as gangsters for the criminal proclivities of this small group of wrongdoers?

Before full collapse of communism, jews were the only people allowed to immigrate from USSR and even in latter times, jews found it much easier to immigrate than other ethnicities ( due mainly to support of jewish organisations). Therefore "Russian" community in America, Australia etc. are 90% ethnic jews.
About Italian mafia. One will find that it's mostly Italians of Sicialian anchestry who involved in mafia. Sicilians are in one respect very similar to jews. Due to number of historical and geographical reasons they also inbreed very often.

Regarding the inquisitor's statement. Please provide evidence regarding Jews being MORE likely to be evil than ANY other etnicity on this planet.

See above. Another one who " has eyes, but sees not".

Wow. The hatred on this board just shows me how much more loving we Atheists are than many so-called Christians

Indeed. And your feces undoubtly smell of roses. :)

It is sickening how many people have been tortured and slaughtered in the name of "God".

I can certainly recall of millions of people executed by atheists in the name of atheism.

But the Nazis didn't waste their time with religion. Nor do most anti-Semites, I'd say. To them, being Jewish is a question of genes, not religion.

It's more complex than that. There are both theological and genetic components to jewish question. In theological view, jews are anti-christs, in genetic, they are the people with the highest incidence of degeneracy.

[Nono]

Originally posted by Inquisitor jews ... are the people with the highest incidence of degeneracy

Kindly define "degeneracy" (a favourite Nazi term by the way).

[m5lange1]

Inquisitor Here is the link, all the evidence anyone needs is there. http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p-99_OKeefe.html Look it up if you pride yourself to be a free thinker. I know from personal experience how hard it is to overcome propaganda condtioning. Yet if one hears something on TV, reads about it in the papers, forced to learn about it in school, it has all the traits of propaganda.

M5 Regarding the inquisitor's statement. Please provide evidence regarding Jews being MORE likely to be evil than ANY other etnicity on this planet. Inquisitor I have already done so. I am sorry if you unable to see it.

Pretty sad Inq. I thought you were a solid evidence (although somewhat mis directed) thinker. This is not evidence. This is some guy saying "You should not buy their false propeganda.... here believe me instead".

The problem with the whole revisionism thing is that all too often (as in this case) their new pile of bullshit has even less compelling evidence than that which already exists. There are exceptions where solid reseach uncovers new and revealing evidence. This site you refer us to certainly lacks any such epic revelations.

So you have two sets of stories. Each using references, then making interpretations. I have seen NO evidence in what you presented that is more compelling (in fact with the presence of many surviving whitnesses I find the evidence much LESS compelling) than the existing pervalent beliefs regarding what happened under Hitler.

But, sir, this was not what my statement was about. Read it again.....

M5 Please provide evidence regarding Jews being MORE likely to be evil than ANY other etnicity on this planet.

Where, in that article by Okeefe is the comparitive evidence that Jews are more likely than ANY other etnicity to be evil. Where is the comparitive data?
Where is his evidence that jews are evil at all?

Certainly someone of your intelligence realizes that widespread prejudice does not mean the subjects of that prejudice are evil.

If that were the case what of the black race? What of the Irish when the potato famine caused the great exodus?

No. Read that link again yourself with a less bias eye. Imagine that this article was speaking of a race you have less animosity for and look for evidence that they are the MOST evil of ALL ethnicities.

One begins to wonder what your point is...
That the Jews are evil so they deserved the holocaust?
That the holocaust was all a lie (if so why the need to villify the Jews)?
Or is it... The holocaust never happened but it should have????

[Inquisitor]

The problem with the whole revisionism thing is that all too often (as in this case) their new pile of bullshit has even less compelling evidence than that which already exists. There are exceptions where solid reseach uncovers new and revealing evidence. This site you refer us to certainly lacks any such epic revelations.

Sorry, I wasn't specific enough. To find actual evidence, scroll down to the bottom of the page and click BOOKS. They have online library with some good books there. I agree with you entirely, a single article is not a good enough evidence.

Where, in that article by Okeefe is the comparitive evidence that Jews are more likely than ANY other etnicity to be evil. Where is the comparitive data? Where is his evidence that jews are evil at all?

I have already provided evidence that jews were dozens of times more likely to be members of secret police under communism. This very fact is the evidence that jews are more likely to be evil. If you think that communist secret police was not evil, read up on them.

One begins to wonder what your point is... That the Jews are evil so they deserved the holocaust? That the holocaust was all a lie (if so why the need to villify the Jews)? Or is it... The holocaust never happened but it should have????

My point is:
1. Jews were sent to concentration camps, yet there was no programm of extermination.
2. 6 million is exagerrated about 10 times.
3. Germans were protecting their country and protecting a country is impossible without keeping jews under very close watch.
4. Whether I am right or wrong about the extent of holocaust, it certainly pales compared to what jews have done and doing today.

Kindly define "degeneracy" (a favourite Nazi term by the way).

Please refer to new topic " Jewish question".

[castille]

Let's just agree: All religous people are freaks.

[PatrickHenry]

No agreement here castille. The real freak: http://www.volconvo.com/forums/index.php?s...?showtopic=2018

[castille]

PatrickHenry: You waste hours of your life trying to insult me, copying and pasting endless posts, twisting things out of perspective...all because I'm against Christianity.

Who's the real freak?

Yeah now you're going to spend the next 5 days of your life trying to find new comebacks for that. Loser.

[Compugasm]

Hehehe, one of the best threads on Volcanvo. Kinda like "Castille's Greatest Hits" all compiled into one fabulous collection on K-Tel records.

[Paavo]

http://www.holohoax.info/video/davidcole.wmv <--- really worth the download.

(And before someone shouts out "Nazi propaganda!", the guy's jewish.)

[Suburbanite]

What does it matter if he is a Jew?
I can't believe, paavo, that you think that justifies anything. It is beside the point.

[Inquisitor]

What does it matter if he is a Jew? I can't believe, paavo, that you think that justifies anything. It is beside the point.

How about the point of the movie, regardles of his ethnicity?

Good info, thanks Paavo.

[Nono]

Stop nodding, Paavo. The details can be quibbled about, but the main facts are undeniable owing to crushing weight of evidence (not least what the Western Allies found, for not all camps were liberated by the Soviets).

And while we're at it, when it comes to anti-Semitism you had to get up pretty early in the morning to outdo Joe Stalin. Kinda funny that the Soviets would be in league with the Zionists. Unless, of course, like Inquisitor you believe in the International Jewish-Communist Conspiracy. Then you'll believe anything.

And before someone shouts out "Nazi propaganda!", the guy's jewish.

Yeah so what? Jew-hating Jews, Black-hating Blacks, German-hating Germans -- a dime a dozen. Read a psychology textbook sometime.

[Paavo]

Stop nodding, Paavo. The details can be quibbled about, but the main facts are undeniable owing to crushing weight of evidence (not least what the Western Allies found, for not all camps were liberated by the Soviets).

Well then show doubters the evidence?

Yeah so what? Jew-hating Jews, Black-hating Blacks, German-hating Germans -- a dime a dozen. Read a psychology textbook sometime.

I doubt people would even think about clicking the link if I hadn't said that, with the silly URL and all.

I'm not saying the Holocaust didn't happen, but the mere fact that they suddenly dropped the casualty amount from 4 million to 1.1 million should make people at least take a look at the whole piece of history again. I mean, why not?

Did anyone even watch the video?

[Inquisitor]

And while we're at it, when it comes to anti-Semitism you had to get up pretty early in the morning to outdo Joe Stalin

Would you care to provide evidence for Stalin's anti semitism?

Did anyone even watch the video?

I did, thanks again Paavo.

[Paavo]

...not least what the Western Allies found, for not all camps were liberated by the Soviets

Among the most notorious Nazi camps liberated by U.S. and British troops in 1945 were Buchenwald, Dachau, and Belsen.

Source

Today, no self-respecting historian contends that there were gas chambers at Dachau, Buchenwald, and Oranienburg, or that the German conducted murder in the ovens.

Source

In 1960, leading German holocaust historian Martin Broszat categorically stated that there had never been any homicidal gassings in the concentration camps of the "Old Reich" (to wit, of Germany in its 1939 borders), and that gassings had only occurred in the "extermination camps", which were on Polish soil (Die Zeit, 19 August 1960).

Source

^ These quotes, if accurate, say that the Allied would never had liberated any camps alleged to have gas chambers.
Thus, all gas-chamber related proof would have to come from the Soviet Union at that time.

[Paavo]

Among the most notorious Nazi camps liberated by U.S. and British troops...

Missed the "Among" word there. Makes my last post somewhat less accurate, I'll investigate some more when I find the time. :)