Proof of God?

[RickSp]

Please, I need to know which religion to be! I just want to decide on one thing for once in my life! Which religion should I be?

Why do you need to follow any religion? Most folks follow the fairy tales they were told as kids. Perhaps it is time to leave the fairy tales behind.

[nolidad]

Th

ose of us who understand the workings of science do neither. We accept the conclusions reached by scientists based on research and examination of evidence as the best answer we currently have for any given natural process. Science does not reach absolute conclusions. If we say that evolution is a fact, we are using "fact" in the scientific sense. Evolution is a well established and observed process for which no one has presented an equally valid explanation. Nor do we have to accept temporal conclusions "on faith". Those conclusions are the result of documented experimentation and research.

Well I understand some of science (not as much as many but more than many as well) and all you are saying is that it is their best guess. At least I can acept that.

Certain parts of the hypothesis called evolution are observable- but that is a small small part known as speciation and that is just variation within a genre.

None of which establishes any god as a real entity. The belief in god is entirely in the mind of the believer. If they choose that path, fine.

And you must say this. It is only because you have yet to meet Him.

[yukonmuffin]

Th

Well I understand some of science (not as much as many but more than many as well) and all you are saying is that it is their best guess. At least I can acept that.

Certain parts of the hypothesis called evolution are observable- but that is a small small part known as speciation and that is just variation within a genre.



And you must say this. It is only because you have yet to meet Him.

Lol does he talk to you at night?
Anyways I don't think you really understand our point of view at all. Most of us have seen this argument 100 times over. It comes down to you not really knowing how things work... you've just read a few articles and accepted them as our belief thinking we've done the same and are no better then theists.

A few questions:
Do you deny Evolution?
Do think your belief is certain?
Can you explain why your god is more probable then the others?
How old do you think our planet is?

[Jack]

their best guess

No, the conclusions are arrived at after much experimentation and peer review. It's not a guess but a temporal conclusion based on evidence. More than we can say about religious belief.

It is only because you have yet to meet Him.

I was a devout Christian for a number of years. Been there, done that, moved on.

[RickSp]

And you must say this. It is only because you have yet to meet Him.

I too was raised as a Christian. Unlike you I asked questions and observed as the self serving answers collapsed in upon themselves. I saw that there was no rational reason to believe in god or Jesus. That was over 40 years ago. It was the best conclusion that I have ever reached.

And by the way, continuing to demonstrate your ignorance of basic science does nothing whatsoever to help your case.

[nolidad]

That's not very far to go. All religions incorporate provisions within their dogma to discourage criticism. Isn't this another example of Christian "picking and choosing"? One day I'm told the Old Testament has been made irrelevant by Jesus and the next day Christians are using Psalms to insult non-believers.

Well the thrust of the OT Jewish distinction has been set aside, but the God of the OT is the God of the NT. His character and attributes are still the same.

Those of us who understand the workings of science do neither. We accept the conclusions reached by scientists based on research and examination of evidence as the best answer we currently have for any given natural process. Science does not reach absolute conclusions. If we say that evolution is a fact, we are using "fact" in the scientific sense. Evolution is a well established and observed process for which no one has presented an equally valid explanation. Nor do we have to accept temporal conclusions "on faith". Those conclusions are the result of documented experimentation and research

.

Well are you are saying is that it is their best educated guess based on the little they know.

As for the grand scale of evolution from microbe to the present biodiversity- I would love to see the experimentation that has validated the theory to exclude all others.

The best documented experimentation I know of is that of the fruit fly. Over 10,000 generations have been experimented on and all they have succesfully produced is fruit flies with varied mutations, but it still remained a fruit fly. If you can demonstrate the actual proof of fish to reptile to bird by experimentation you would gain fame beyind imagination.

was a devout Christian for a number of years. Been there, done that, moved on.

Then I mourn that your quest stopped at practicing a "christian" religion instead of bringing you all the way to a vibrant relationship with the ONE who caused men to create those religions.

And by the way, continuing to demonstrate your ignorance of basic science does nothing whatsoever to help your case.

If you are referring to evolution , that is a debate I am involved with on another thread here.

Yukomuffin writes: Lol does he talk to you at night?
Anyways I don't think you really understand our point of view at all. Most of us have seen this argument 100 times over. It comes down to you not really knowing how things work... you've just read a few articles and accepted them as our belief thinking we've done the same and are no better then theists.

A few questions:
Do you deny Evolution?
Do think your belief is certain?
Can you explain why your god is more probable then the others?

Not at night-- I am usually asleep

No I pretty much understand many of your POV's. I just thought a debate on the proof of God was a natural fit for one who knows Him. If you wish to not have me involved, if that is the consensus, I will bow out with no hard feelings.



as to your questions:

1. Evolution theory that states all things started from non life to simple microbe to the present biodiversity-- Yes I do deny that. As to the parts that speak of speciation and variation, those are true.


2. as to the certainty of my belief- in Him, yes that is absolute. as to some doctrines- no there are some after 35 years that I cannot be 100% on

3. As to why the Triune God is more probable- that would depend on what you are actually seeking.

4. as to the age of the earth- do you really wonder? 6-10Kyears.


I ask a question of all, I have horrendous spelling due to my incompatibility of my hands to work well with a keyboard (infirmities). I have tried to download several spell checkers and seem to have lost them in my computer or just don't know how to get them involved while i am on a debate thread. Any help would be appreciated.

[Jack]

<off topic> The Firefox browser has a built-in spell checker. It will alert you to a misspelled word and a right click on the word will offer corrections. It works in Windows, Linux and Mac.
</off topic>

[RickSp]

<off topic> The Firefox browser has a built-in spell checker. It will alert you to a misspelled word and a right click on the word will offer corrections. It works in Windows, Linux and Mac.
</off topic>

So does Chrome and the IeSpell browser extension works from the toolbar.

[RickSp]

Well the thrust of the OT Jewish distinction has been set aside, but the God of the OT is the God of the NT. His character and attributes are still the same.

I cannot prove the Bible- it is not designed to be defended- it is designed to be accepted or rejected as the Word of God or not.

So your notional god is the same in both volumes of the book that you cannot prove. Well isn't that special?

The best documented experimentation I know of is that of the fruit fly. Over 10,000 generations have been experimented on and all they have succesfully produced is fruit flies with varied mutations, but it still remained a fruit fly. If you can demonstrate the actual proof of fish to reptile to bird by experimentation you would gain fame beyind imagination.

Yawn. Do you think that your repetition of this bit of creationist blather improves each time you post it? It doesn't.

4. as to the age of the earth- do you really wonder? 6-10Kyears.

If this is what you indeed believe, no more need be said. One must ignore biology, geology, astronomy and physics - in essence all of science, to believe that the world is 6 -10 years old.

Rather than your uniformed sniping about aspects of evolution that you obviously do not understand, why not try to defend your silly young earth creationism?

[yukonmuffin]

1. Evolution theory that states all things started from non life to simple microbe to the present biodiversity-- Yes I do deny that. As to the parts that speak of speciation and variation, those are true.

You speak of Abiogenisis, not evolution. A more specific question: Do you believe a micro organism can become a larger multicellular being if given enough time?

2. as to the certainty of my belief- in Him, yes that is absolute. as to some doctrines- no there are some after 35 years that I cannot be 100% on

That's a dangerous point of view to have. Nothing, not even what atheists have, is certain.

4. as to the age of the earth- do you really wonder? 6-10Kyears.

So I take it carbon dating means nothing to you? It's really not as complicated as you'd expect it to be.

[pappillion001]

Please, I need to know which religion to be! I just want to decide on one thing for once in my life! Which religion should I be?

I will be your God and you will be my peeps. You may worship me, but if you don't I will take your word for it. You may ask me questions I may respond (email works best) I recquire sacrifice on my holy days (I am open to suggestion on what and when) You may not use my name in vain (unless you really thought it would accomplish something, but then didn't)

or you could rest your coconut under a palm tree until you realize that no one can tell you what will work for you for your life. I also suggest you stay there until you can decide for the first time the one thing that doesn't require you to ask someone else to decide for you.

Think how proud you will be when it really is you who decided.

Should you decide not to decide or need someone to decide for you I will still be your God

[nolidad]

Yawn. Do you think that your repetition of this bit of creationist blather improves each time you post it? It doesn't.

Well this is the 1st time I post it here but it is still true.

FRUIT FLIES SPEAK UP

majority of the quotes are from evolutionists.

You speak of Abiogenisis, not evolution. A more specific question: Do you believe a micro organism can become a larger multicellular being if given enough time?

Off the top of my head outside of babies- I can't think of any occurring on their own.

That's a dangerous point of view to have. Nothing, not even what atheists have, is certain.

Well let me ask you - are you certain your parents exist(ed), your siblings? Your spouse? I do know He lives.

So I take it carbon dating means nothing to you? It's really not as complicated as you'd expect it to be.

All forms of dating that do not start with all known coefficients are faulty. I can post you some serious problems with C14 dating if you are interested.

So your notional god is the same in both volumes of the book that you cannot prove. Well isn't that special?

Yes He is special, I can prove Him, but it would take a real desire on your part to want to meet Him. He is not capricious and into the whims of man as our man made gods are.

If this is what you indeed believe, no more need be said. One must ignore biology, geology, astronomy and physics - in essence all of science, to believe that the world is 6 -10 years old.

Well 6-10 K years I want that to be made sure not 6-10. No not all of science, just the philosophical parts that cannot be verified as of yet and have been shown to have faulty data to draw its conclusions with.

Rather than your uniformed sniping about aspects of evolution that you obviously do not understand, why not try to defend your silly young earth creationism?

Which parts? Proof of the Noahic flood? Why the universe can be billions of light years across and still only be created 6,000 years ago?

How we can track the ancestry of the races through the bible?, Why we can't trust radio/dating? Give me specific avenues you wish and we can go from there.

Also thanks all for the spell check downloads. Hopefully my posts will see vast improvement.